Tyranid Global: Without Number

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
Telos
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Tyranid Global: Without Number

Postby Telos » Wed 05 Jun, 2019 9:12 am



This seems like a good opportunity to discuss this global.



I think most nid players would agree the global is pretty lackluster. It's not really that bad, but like most nid globals it's pretty situational and doesn't provide a whole lot. However, unlike other globals it has some pretty steep drawbacks.

Pros
- Reinforce nearby squads (maybe? Possibly an old feature)
- Provides disruption
- Get fully upgraded termagant and hormagaunt squads delivered anywhere with line of sight
- One squad is basically free with the cost

Cons
- T3 Global that delivers T1 squads, even with upgrades they're pretty useless at that point of the game except for back capping
- The high model squads provide easy xp/red farm for your opponent
- It's really not that cheap. Think of it this way, would you pay just 175 red for one upgraded Horma or Term squad drop in T3? It depends on the situation, but most situations say no
- Disruption affects friendly units so not ideal to drop on a melee fight
- Long windup so not difficult to dodge
- Takes resources from capillary towers, T3 super units, and Tyrannoformation
- Upkeep of the dropped squads severely hurts your eco

With the way the global works, it seems best to use either in a 50/50 fight that you might win anyway without using it, or as desperation to prevent a cap/make a cap to wrap up a game. It's very rare that the ability would be beneficial to replenish your roster by T3 because lvl 1 terms and hormas just can't really go toe-to-toe with anything at that point and the req/red is better spent on stronger units. Terms crippling poison at least provides some utility, but hormas can't accomplish a whole lot imo. This is my perspective on it though, I could be mistaken since I'm hardly a high-skill nid player. I do have some ideas on reworks for it. I'm thinking of the global's use strictly in 1v1 and not considering its impact on team games.

Easiest
Keep it the same, but move it to T2

In T2, upgraded hormas and terms might be able to make an impact and lvl to a point in the match that they have greater utility. And it at least provides utility for replenishing your roster and save resources. The red cost still makes it difficult to reach early in a match unless the nid player has been playing very well/conservatively with spending it so seems like it would likely not come into play by mid-T2 at the earliest (this is considering its current cost of 300/0/200). But honestly, if the nid player is playing well then it's unlikely they'd opt for this and just go T3.

Highest Value
Increase the cost to 450/0/200 (could be different costs) and add an unupgraded Warrior brood to the drop

Adding a Warrior brood to the drop suddenly adds a lot of value for the nid player. You get a unit that is valuable in any MU, and give synapse to the hormas/termies so they're far less of a pushover than they normally would be. Combine that with the dmg/disruption of the Warriors and it's a much better proposition. It's especially valuable if you skipped on Warriors early in the match in favor of Ravs or some other build. Having the warriors unupgraded also gives the nid player options for how to equip them to fit the MU. But this seems like it'd be hard to balance with the cost/value.

Most Interesting/Thematic
Keep it the same, keep it in T3, possibly increase the cooldown to 300s. Reduce the pop/upkeep of the dropped squads to 0 (or very low, as mechanics in the game allow)

I think this would be a very interesting rework and very thematic of something called "Without Number". The squads dropped are still low impact but it matters a lot less because their impact on pop/upkeep is low/non-existent for the nid player. They can actually use them exactly as the hive mind would, as fodder towards some other goal (in this case, to buy time for other super units to come out). A 5-min cooldown is quite long in T3, in most 1v1 games it could probably come up twice or three times in very long games. The CD could be increased further or maybe the squads made unable to level, but this option still seems the hardest to balance so may not be the best idea for a rework. But I think it's the most thematic change, and would add a lot (maybe too much) value to the global.

-----

Interested to hear opinions of this global from more veteran nid players.
Last edited by Telos on Tue 11 Jun, 2019 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Broodwich
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Re: Tyranid Global: Without Number

Postby Broodwich » Wed 05 Jun, 2019 3:38 pm

If it were cheaper, dropped just a horma, and t2 I think this would see a lot more use. As is, it seems like an afterthought with very little tactical value.
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Telos
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Re: Tyranid Global: Without Number

Postby Telos » Thu 06 Jun, 2019 1:47 am

That's interesting, so you think just one horma drop would improve it? If it's just dropping one squad in t2 I'd rather it be a warrior squad tbh.

But maybe some combination of a horma squad and rippers dropped cheaply in t2 would keep it thematic while being balanced and useful.
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SarDauk
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Re: Tyranid Global: Without Number

Postby SarDauk » Thu 06 Jun, 2019 2:33 am

Don't forget that each nid hero already has a T2 global which gives them a squad tho
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Sex - Murder - Art
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Re: Tyranid Global: Without Number

Postby Sex - Murder - Art » Thu 06 Jun, 2019 10:18 am

SarDauk wrote:Don't forget that each nid hero already has a T2 global which gives them a squad tho


And how is that a problem?
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SarDauk
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Re: Tyranid Global: Without Number

Postby SarDauk » Thu 06 Jun, 2019 1:10 pm

Sex - Murder - Art wrote: And how is that a problem?


Well do you really want to get gaunts when you could field tyrant guard, raveners or venombrood ? I think in almost every situations these are betters (except mb if you lost a lot's of squad).

But I've to say I'm not a great 1v1 player.
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hiveminion
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Re: Tyranid Global: Without Number

Postby hiveminion » Thu 06 Jun, 2019 4:08 pm

The only times I ever use this global is as a last-ditch effort to knock stuff off a VP cap.

This global was pretty good when it was T2 and more expensive, you could go for a horde style build with double Hormas and triple Termas after getting a quick Venom Brood out.
Telos
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Re: Tyranid Global: Without Number

Postby Telos » Fri 07 Jun, 2019 2:30 am

hiveminion wrote:The only times I ever use this global is as a last-ditch effort to knock stuff off a VP cap.

This global was pretty good when it was T2 and more expensive, you could go for a horde style build with double Hormas and triple Termas after getting a quick Venom Brood out.


T2 definitely seems like where it should be.

Do you know why was it moved to T3?
Telos
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Re: Tyranid Global: Without Number

Postby Telos » Tue 11 Jun, 2019 6:23 am

Does this global still reinforce nearby squads? I tried using it near a depleted warrior brood and they definitely were not reinforced... It's possible they weren't close enough, but they were pretty damn close.
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Re: Tyranid Global: Without Number

Postby Torpid » Tue 11 Jun, 2019 8:55 am

Don't think it does.
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Telos
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Re: Tyranid Global: Without Number

Postby Telos » Tue 11 Jun, 2019 4:53 pm

If that's no longer a feature... Then the price of this global is seeming harder and harder to justify
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Oddnerd
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Re: Tyranid Global: Without Number

Postby Oddnerd » Tue 02 Jul, 2019 5:25 pm

I wish there was a way to get this global to T2. I only ever use it in T3 to stop caps in an emergency. Horms and terms just don't hold up late game well enough to be worth purchasing. At that point I usually try to let the horms die and replace them with genestealers, which are much better at fighting badass t3 units like nobs and terminators.

In tier 2 I would absolutely use this to replenish losses though - if marines can call down a tac squad and be rewarded for overextending, I don't see why nids can't replace their fodder units in t2. You could even take away the unit upgrades if you felt it was too strong in its current state.

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