The force commander and his clothes

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
lolzarz
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Re: The force commander and his clothes

Postby lolzarz » Sat 03 May, 2014 3:44 pm

Discreet wrote:
lolzarz wrote:Won't making an armor that buffs battle-cry overlap with the power sword?


That's the Commissar Lord, not Force Commander XD
FC Power Sword is nothing special. Just straight up more damage


Power sword makes the damage bonus from battle cry bigger, or so I read from the Codex. Apparently, the damage bonus goes from 10% to 15% with the power sword.
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Dark Riku
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Re: The force commander and his clothes

Postby Dark Riku » Sat 03 May, 2014 5:27 pm

Black Relic wrote:And the LAST thing is he inspires on kill.
No he doesn't :p

Discreet wrote:FC Power Sword is nothing special. Just straight up more damage
What lolzarz said ^^
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Re: The force commander and his clothes

Postby BaptismByLoli » Sat 03 May, 2014 5:42 pm

lolzarz wrote:Power sword makes the damage bonus from battle cry bigger, or so I read from the Codex. Apparently, the damage bonus goes from 10% to 15% with the power sword.
http://www.dawnofwar.info/index.php?pag ... _commander

Derp :p
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Re: The force commander and his clothes

Postby Black Relic » Sat 03 May, 2014 7:44 pm

Dark Riku wrote:
Black Relic wrote:And the LAST thing is he inspires on kill.
No he doesn't :p


I just used Cope's Tool box to see this stuff. This is kinda funny. The lightning claws, assault cannon and storm bolter don't have on kill actions (inspiration). But the powerfist and heavy flamer does.

But check this out also. The inspire on kill actions dont have an animator action. Meaning when the FC kills something with the mentioned weapons the buff will go off, but it wont have a yellow ring around the FC to show the players thee is a buff going on.
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Dark Riku
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Re: The force commander and his clothes

Postby Dark Riku » Sat 03 May, 2014 8:39 pm

Fix and unify please :p

I hope Caeltos will have a good look into this upgrade sometime.
Some changes seem to be long overdue ^^
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Re: The force commander and his clothes

Postby Barrogh » Sun 04 May, 2014 10:52 am

Black Relic wrote:I just used Cope's Tool box to see this stuff. This is kinda funny. The lightning claws, assault cannon and storm bolter don't have on kill actions (inspiration). But the powerfist and heavy flamer does.

But check this out also. The inspire on kill actions dont have an animator action. Meaning when the FC kills something with the mentioned weapons the buff will go off, but it wont have a yellow ring around the FC to show the players thee is a buff going on.

Now that's something that actually require fixing about TFC.
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Re: The force commander and his clothes

Postby L0thar » Mon 05 May, 2014 2:47 pm

Black Relic wrote:What are peoples thoughts on the FC's terminator armor? Because even without a way for him to effectively hit vehicles or infantry (since he soooo damn slow), he scares the living hell out of most of them. And he is very effective at stopping blobs, melee and ranged because of his teleport. Plus he gets a pretty good ranged weapon to start out. Not to mention his big ass health pool. Not to mention he can retreat (A FREAKING TERMINATOR RETREAT!!! HERESY!). And PLEASE don't forget that he can teleport also. And the LAST thing is he inspires on kill.


The terminator armour is fine, the inability to change back is not. Make it switchable back to normal armour with retained wargear and levels and it will be interesting tactical choice.

Only thing, it should be SHI. HI in T3 is huge liability (SHI still takes bonus damage from many T3 stuff but it does it's job against piercing damage at least).
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Re: The force commander and his clothes

Postby Torpid » Mon 05 May, 2014 2:54 pm

No and no. Half a terminator squad worth of HQ on a single entity that can retreat? Lol. No thanks. And no it shouldn't be able to swap back to his previous wargears, it's pretty powerful as it is at the moment, albeit slightly overpriced I would say.
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Re: The force commander and his clothes

Postby L0thar » Mon 05 May, 2014 3:28 pm

That Torpid Gamer wrote:No and no. Half a terminator squad worth of HQ on a single entity that can retreat? Lol. No thanks.


I would argue that commander armour is much better, but whatever, I'm not really bothered by it.

That Torpid Gamer wrote:And no it shouldn't be able to swap back to his previous wargears, it's pretty powerful as it is at the moment, albeit slightly overpriced I would say.


Why not? Arguments "it's fine because it's fine" don't count. Losing all you previously acquired with no way back is stupid design.
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Re: The force commander and his clothes

Postby Bahamut » Mon 05 May, 2014 3:57 pm

Indeed commander armor type is much better than heavy tho its less resistant to piercing dmg type. It'd be nice for the fc termie to retain commander armor instead of buffing the dude or decreasing the cost of he upgrade
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Re: The force commander and his clothes

Postby Arbit » Mon 05 May, 2014 10:32 pm

FC terminator would be awful to fight in melee if he had commander armor. 0.7 to normal melee, and no penalties against any other types.

Relic probably intentionally gave him heavy armor as a compromise between regular terminator attributes (resistant to piercing, unsuppressable, unknockdownable, teleporting) and him being a commander (can still retreat, be revived, repurchased at HQ). He should have a weakness to some damage types otherwise he'd be even more difficult to take down, and what with all the T3 units that put out ungodly piercing damage like kasrkin or even leveled up T1 squads like shootas and guardians, having heavy armor isn't all bad.

I really only think of heavy armor as all downside for units like HB devs and havocs, since they have low hp, they're not particularly vulnerable to shooting since any shooty units in front of them will be supressed, and the bonus damage from grenades and pdev shots can instagib them.
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Re: The force commander and his clothes

Postby Bahamut » Mon 05 May, 2014 10:50 pm

you know that termie power fist special has no AoE right? it hits only 1 model at a time. So that's one more reason why normal FC is better in melee

Also, back in retribution dealing with HI and SHI was overall more difficult than it is now

And a lvl 10 FC with halo has 2600 effective hp, with commander armor and a 33% damage modifier to the melee weapon. Something the termie version can't have, since it doenst level
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Re: The force commander and his clothes

Postby Torpid » Mon 05 May, 2014 11:01 pm

L0thar wrote:Why not? Arguments "it's fine because it's fine" don't count. Losing all you previously acquired with no way back is stupid design.


I think you'll find most of the designs in this game are like that. The game is meant to work like that. That's why macro is so pivotal in DOW. You buy something and if it was a mistake now you're utterly screwed over because you can't go back; that's why you have to re-pay for new weapons on your tacs, it's a huge bonus for the simple fact that they can dominate t1 with a flamer and then get missles in t2.

If you get the FC termy armour you're changing his role completely and he becomes pretty damn powerful purely considering the price (but previous wargears/levels make that less so). He has HI not commander hp atm.
Last edited by Torpid on Tue 06 May, 2014 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The force commander and his clothes

Postby Black Relic » Tue 06 May, 2014 4:46 am

Bahamut wrote:you know that termie power fist special has no AoE right? it hits only 1 model at a time. So that's one more reason why normal FC is better in melee

Also, back in retribution dealing with HI and SHI was overall more difficult than it is now

And a lvl 10 FC with halo has 2600 effective hp, with commander armor and a 33% damage modifier to the melee weapon. Something the termie version can't have, since it doenst level


Yes but an termi FC isnt as easy to control as a plain FC. Plus Iron halo doesnt scale extremely well in late game IMO. It has its uses but usually will already be replaced by something that actually improves upon his role that is chosen by his weapon upgrade. Iron Halo just makes his Starting role harder to deal with since he cannot be knocked back easily and can tank more hits. But that will also take his supportive ability away.

Unlike the FC termi where he is HARD to control. Can still support with battle cry. And his power fist that he starts off with already does as much as a FC with his powerfist upgrade. The FC termie can teleport. And his ranged weapon isn't something that can be snuffed at. And FC termi with a Libby casting VoT on him is quite scary. Since, again, he cannot be controlled by knockback, or suppression. Only by snares and stuns were there aren't much of.

There are benefits to keeping the "plain" FC and going for Termi armor. But I perfer Term FC unless there are TONS of tanks. Then I kinda regret it.
Last edited by Black Relic on Tue 06 May, 2014 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The force commander and his clothes

Postby Swift » Tue 06 May, 2014 1:22 pm

I think the Terminator FC just looks cooler.
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