(Suggestion) Tzeentch CSM Champion alteration

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
SOLID SQUIG
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Re: (Suggestion) Tzeentch CSM Champion alteration

Postby SOLID SQUIG » Fri 05 Apr, 2019 7:40 pm

Oddnerd wrote:If you want to buff the AC in a way that improves the units' general ranged superiority, you could make him have a dmg buff, weapon range buff, or provide ranged DR like a DA exarch. Or make him a stronger combatant.


I like these ideas there not on the verge of OP, like Ted don’t need to give this squad a cc ability or anything
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Broodwich
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Re: (Suggestion) Tzeentch CSM Champion alteration

Postby Broodwich » Fri 05 Apr, 2019 10:29 pm

Since MoT is essentially Thousand sons, aspiring sorcerer would be perfect. If you wanna get freaky you could:

- Increase damage or health granted by MoT (prefer health)
- Decrease speed of MoT marines
- Have AC increase speed back to normal
- Stun on AC loss?

The AC himself would get a staff/model similar to the current sorcerer, and create a new weapon that gives him essentially the same DPS as inferno bolters. The slower firing pattern/animation of a staff gives it more burst damage, which of itself would be a small buff

Increasing the health or damage of the squad would compensate for the speed loss, and not making the AC an immediate necessity. The speed changes give it the feel of the automata that need guidance from an AC, and in general make the unit more interesting.

Just throwin ideas
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Sex - Murder - Art
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Re: (Suggestion) Tzeentch CSM Champion alteration

Postby Sex - Murder - Art » Sun 07 Apr, 2019 8:43 pm

Ughh, just reduce the cost of MoT Champion, rest of Champions are neat, and they deserve their cost. After all, no one complains about its performance. Everyone complains about its cost. So why trying to change its performance when you can just make it cheaper?
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Torpid
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Re: (Suggestion) Tzeentch CSM Champion alteration

Postby Torpid » Mon 08 Apr, 2019 4:10 am

Sex - Murder - Art wrote:Ughh, just reduce the cost of MoT Champion, rest of Champions are neat, and they deserve their cost. After all, no one complains about its performance. Everyone complains about its cost. So why trying to change its performance when you can just make it cheaper?


You can't do that afaik.

The mark can't retroactively reduce the cost of another upgrade, and then that also wouldn't apply when you buy the AC first and want to consider getting MoT.
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Black Relic
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Re: (Suggestion) Tzeentch CSM Champion alteration

Postby Black Relic » Mon 08 Apr, 2019 5:31 am

True. But it is possible to make the MoT upgrade lower the cost of AC actually. I have done something similar before. It wont effect the AC tho if the mark is not purchased. So its kinda a gamble and player NEED to understand that if they want MoT and AC that the HAVE to get the Mark first to save on resources.

But the reason that i scraped that idea before is because having the hidden mechanic type thing that people only understand if they play the game is...makes it hard to justify in implementing it.
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SarDauk
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Re: (Suggestion) Tzeentch CSM Champion alteration

Postby SarDauk » Thu 11 Apr, 2019 6:14 pm

What about an ability reducing the damage taken ? It would help the squad to keep the models alive so the dps would be preserved. Another idea I have to achieve the same goal is to decrease the accuracy of the squad hit by the ranged attack of TCSM when the AC is alive.
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Sex - Murder - Art
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Re: (Suggestion) Tzeentch CSM Champion alteration

Postby Sex - Murder - Art » Thu 11 Apr, 2019 8:17 pm

I would gladly pay 25 power for an inferno bolter marine that has 50% more damage on it.

CSM Champions are not meant to be complex, they are pretty straight forward. So, we shouldn't be talking about abilities, it must be a passive thing. Just like how MoK Champion works.

If MoT Champion is going to get a buff, it must be a simple buff. I think everyone would agree on a straight damage buff.
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SarDauk
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Re: (Suggestion) Tzeentch CSM Champion alteration

Postby SarDauk » Fri 12 Apr, 2019 10:32 am

Sex - Murder - Art wrote:I would gladly pay 25 power for an inferno bolter marine that has 50% more damage on it.

CSM Champions are not meant to be complex, they are pretty straight forward. So, we shouldn't be talking about abilities, it must be a passive thing. Just like how MoK Champion works.

If MoT Champion is going to get a buff, it must be a simple buff. I think everyone would agree on a straight damage buff.


Well, the basic AC provide slaughter to your squad which is an ability and MoK champion is a khorne champion so it make sense to be straight forward.
Even if a simple damage buff for TCSM would be probably fine it would be also really tasteless for a tzeentch squad I think.
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Sex - Murder - Art
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Re: (Suggestion) Tzeentch CSM Champion alteration

Postby Sex - Murder - Art » Fri 12 Apr, 2019 1:09 pm

SarDauk wrote:Well, the basic AC provide slaughter to your squad which is an ability and MoK champion is a khorne champion so it make sense to be straight forward.
Even if a simple damage buff for TCSM would be probably fine it would be also really tasteless for a tzeentch squad I think.


Tbf, Slaughter ability is also a very simple ability. Its basicially '' make my squad better '' thing. The only reason why default CSM has that ability is because mods had to justify 25 power cost Champion compared to 25 power cost Tac Sergant that has '' And they shall know no fear'' ability.

CSM meant to be a basic squad, and they should stay that way. We don't have to work on a very improved, complex squad leader for MoT champion. We should find a way to justify its cost, thats all. A straight damage buff would do the job.
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