2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Elite (and related) releases.
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2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Postby Atlas » Sun 03 Feb, 2019 6:11 am

o/ guys!

Ok, lots of changes since the last version of this post came out. As much as I'd like to pontificate, I'm getting pretty tired at this point and I'd rather just cut to the meat.

First off, sorry for going radio silent for about 5 weeks or so. Real life circumstances made it difficult to really sit down and actually work on this kind of stuff. Now that I've gotten back around 2 weeks ago now, I've been abreasted of where we're at and have gotten to work on getting a patch out.

It's been pretty apparent that I can't run this ship by myself nor am I really comfortable being both the balance head and the tech guy at the same time. Honestly, I just don't put the ingame time like I used to and the community is in really dire need of coding more than people with balance opinions. It's much easier when there's a balance head to do that kind of stuff instead.

This is why Adila has been acting balance head for at least the past few weeks. There's no real "official" procedure for appointing balance heads other than just being dubbed thee. Considering myself doubting anyone would really complain with the arrangement, I dub thee Adila balance head.

*insert birthday blower noise*

------------------------------------

Anyway, moving on from that is the patch talk itself.

The goal is to get a full patch out sometime in mid-February. It's pretty ambitious all things considered, but we're really not that far off. In terms of functionality, we're basically at a beta level. Maps and Tooltips still need to be baked into the files but the meat and potatoes that is balance changes is basically done. Tweaks and some bugfixes are all that's left there.

If we really needed to, we can even just roll with what we have for the sake of events. Obviously, we'd try to avoid that but still. Nice to have done the work to make that an option even.

I'm going to link a view-only changelog of my Technical Notes for those who are curious exactly where we are. Additionally, I'll link a copy of the Elite_attrib file that already has all these changes baked in. It's not a full release, so it'll lack all the bells and whistles of it, but it has all the balance changes in and ready to play.

------------------------------------

Let's start with the changleog. Here is the link!

2.9.0 Technical Notes Changelog

The changelog is left to view-only purely because I want to keep my notes as accurate as possible. I'm avoiding a scenario where people want to add changes or suggestions or bug reports and I either never see them in there or mistakenly think they are already fixed.

Also, the changelog itself is a living document. What is in there is what is in the build at that very moment. It's mostly solid, but there might be tweaks as we move through the process. I'll keep updating the log above to match the progress of the patch production.

------------------------------------

Finally, we arrive to the file itself. Here is a copy of the new Elite_attrib.sga file in the event you would like to try out the balance changes ahead of time.

Elite_attrib(2.9.0 Build 5).sga

In order to make this file work, all you need to do is:
1) Go into your game directory. This is usually C:/Program Files/Steam/steamapps/common/Dawn of War II Retribution or something like that.
2) Go into Elite -> Archives. You should see several sga files in there like Elite_data, Elite_config etc etc etc.
3) Find Elite_attrib.sga and rename it to something you'll easily remember. I prefer Elite_attrib(patch #) but whatever works for you.
4) Download the ^ sga file with an already renamed file. Doesn't matter where, just somewhere convenient.
5) Change your downloaded sga file's name to "Elite_attrib.sga". Place it in Elite-> Archives where the old Elite_attrib.sga file was.
5) That's it. Just start the game from there and the balance changes are in effect.

If you want to go back to regular 2.8.1 Elite, just reverse the process. Rename the files and start the game again.

Also, in case any of you bums accidentally mess with your Elite_attrib.sga files anyway, I'll spare you a reinstall and link the 2.8.1 Elite_attrib as well.

Elite_attrib(2.8.1).sga

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And that's basically all I've got to say for now. Feel free to post any questions, comments, error reports or whatever here, in the Discord server channels or anywhere you feel appropriate and we'll get to them!

Check back every now and then, as I'll be updating both the changelog and the build link as we get closer to launch.
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Re: 2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Postby Sex - Murder - Art » Sun 03 Feb, 2019 10:08 am

Chaos changes are all good, except Chosen Plague Marines. They already have enough handicaps by default, removing heal on death might be a little overnerf imo. Removing that heal on normal Plague Marines was a good idea, but CPM needs that heal on death.

About turning Avatar into a deamon type unit, are we going to see same change for Great Unclean One as well? Could not see that on the changelog.

I might do a seperate topic about IG lasturret. It seems like you are trying to make it useful in T2 by some new ideas, but imo, it will never work. Basicially because IG players don't give a shit about lasturret after T1 no matter what.

All good about rest of the changes. Great work Atlas!

However, I may also want to open a seperate topic about Land Raider Crusader for its passive health and regen auras, but thats for alter.
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Re: 2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Postby Torpid » Sun 03 Feb, 2019 11:05 am

Sex - Murder - Art wrote:Chaos changes are all good, except Chosen Plague Marines. They already have enough handicaps by default, removing heal on death might be a little overnerf imo. Removing that heal on normal Plague Marines was a good idea, but CPM needs that heal on death.

About turning Avatar into a deamon type unit, are we going to see same change for Great Unclean One as well? Could not see that on the changelog.

I might do a seperate topic about IG lasturret. It seems like you are trying to make it useful in T2 by some new ideas, but imo, it will never work. Basicially because IG players don't give a shit about lasturret after T1 no matter what.

All good about rest of the changes. Great work Atlas!

However, I may also want to open a seperate topic about Land Raider Crusader for its passive health and regen auras, but thats for alter.


Not particularly convinced that CPM need another nerf either.

GUO is already a daemon, as well as a "carnifex". Easiest way to tell in the chaos roster is if they get the +10hp/s hp regen and the whatever it is +energy/s regen boost from worshipping heretics.

I do disagree on the las-turret. With the upgrade they're totally busted atm, really OP in t1 and with the range of a heavy bolter suppression team I imagine probably pretty decent in T2 as well. Though we'll have to try it out I guess...

Finally on the LRC, are you mistaking it for the LRR? The LRC (the gk variant) as far as I know only has an energy regen aura. Whereas the LRR (SM variant) has a hp regen aura, reinforcement aura and retreat beacon.
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Re: 2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Postby Schepp himself » Sun 03 Feb, 2019 3:37 pm

Atlas wrote:o/ guys!



Hej there!
Just wanted to say that I appreciate everything you and your team (which is everyone participating in testing and the discussion) is doing with the game.
I can't play as much as I would like, but I'm monitoring the status of the game and just wanted to give you a heads up!

Greets
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Re: 2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Postby boss » Sun 03 Feb, 2019 4:58 pm

Well good to see you back atlas but as for this change log working progress or not I give my views on the changes and the ones that are bad then ask why are some of them are even there this is be a long post cos I can't believe I see some of theses changes the ones I don't comment on is fine

Chaos

Chaos lord
Making the blood maul cheaper is good since other than the stun lighting claw is better and chaos don't need stuns since they just kill everything, same with the cost decrease for daemonic visage cost a lot for a debuff compare to others.

Blood lust more red is like why? its an army engagement global that slowly buffs up your damage stats, 200 red already a good price for this.

Immolate with a 5 minimal is just dumb it don't counter melee unless you stand it this and if we go by this than nades should have a minimal range since they are what kill your melee squads as you try to melee.
Its like with these 2 changes you trying to justify his 2 buffs but his nerfs are just random and why blood lust is not op and immolate idk how you can even say its op.

Raptors
Idk what you guys are thinking making raptors ac revert back to his old weapons, remember why they got a melta and power fist? cos you barley saw them before cos there a better unit called blood letters more damage, all power melee, worship, warp shift, teleport and cost cheaper so caeltos give the raptor ac power fist and melta to make them diffent and scale into t2 into t3 now you going to make it cost more and is it each time when you get an ac? if it is rip raptors G fucking G.
And so far I only heard reasons for this is cos first words Plague Marines not raptor ac Plague Marines and raptors can kill all transports not only this is a combo but again first words Plague Marines and raptor ac maybe you should nerf Plague Marines and not render raptors poop come t2 garbage change.

Plague Marines
Now were are talking about these shits I can only guess that reload duration increase from 6-6 to 8-8 means seconds and I guess from that mean 6.6 sec to 8.8 sec now 2 sec is I guess a nerf but its about time instead of small changes for them you make a big one remove the snare is an idea after all your nerfing raptors now cos Plague Marines and raptors kill transport maybe cos of the snare they have let this combo works.

Chosen Plague Marines
Losing there self heal is like why there not op no more letting themselves heal of death was there thing now your going to remove it...........

Also no nade tics nerfs which have been talk about for ages now yet raptor ac nerfs

Eldar

Warlock
Idk why you are nerfing him he's not op no more.

Banshees Exarch
10 less rec means very litte would be way better is squad leaders were cheaper to rebuy.

Rangers
I thought that rangers were too cheap to buy and easily spam them now kinetic pulse going to get change wtf, first find out what makes them op then change then.

Autarch
I find this change funny she can now switched between her executioner and fusion Gun 1 problem she can already do this :lol: GG

Warp Spider
Making them 5 less rec and 5 less power for more rec upkeep and haywire grenade cooldown increase wtf like really in a game where your next unit choice might win or lose the game making then 5 less to buy means you get them 5 secs faster and you now end up paying more in the long term well done for nerfing them more.

Avatar
Idk why he going down in power think its fine its a super unit with super heavy infantry armor on an mainly infantry armor race, passive buffs along with good combat skill and damage but I guess well see.

Imperial Guard

Guardsman
Only the Commissar needs to cost 2 pop, he what makes them into a combat unit with just his stats alone. The sergeant is only good for 2 more gm and 2 for 1 reinforce he don't need to cost more pop t1 gm are not that good. Its the commissar that make them a lot better along with plasma guns

Sentinel
More upkeep I guess helps and 2 less radius means nothing really all that does is makes the sent more 1 step forward to stun you and gg sent still wins ig games cos stun on a starting unit.

Orks

I don't mind the ork changes tho do like the painboy buffs tho shocked to see stormboys not getting any love.

Space marines

Force Commander
Telehammer losing 50% damage not going to stop it being a t2 nuke on demand still will be able to force off whole army's by just pressing 2 hotkeys then hence the teleport is there you should be looking for nerfs.

Techmarine
Missile turret losing splash is good but its accuracy to infantry lets it snipe and kill stuff would have thought you reduce it lasscannon turret levels.
Making melee techmarine better cool but have to say there come a point where you overbuff this.

Sternguard Veteran
Why more power cost you already have to get the sarge then upgrade you only see sterns vs orks, eldar mainly. You see them in other matchups but tacs tend to have more need for other weapons. Also how come the vengeance rounds not getting nerfed?

Plasma Cannon Whirlwind
Whirlwind you rarely see as it is never seen in 1v1 barley in 2v2 and 3v3 the most and its rng disruption at best why the hell would you have get in the first place? yet somehow its getting nerfed unless you make it not rng you might as well remove it cos it has no place.
Plasma cannon cost power it just lol teamgame changes cos people are to lazy to not blob then get hit hard by one then cry for nerfs how very dumb.

Terminator
If chaos ones are getting a 20% melee resistance aura then how come sm ones don't seems not very far? also no to upkeep nerfs to both

Tyranids
Of course im very bias towards so watch out :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Tyranoformation
I don't know why its getting buff tbh I like it already its not very killy nuke but it buffs instead which I like more than just nuke your ded globals cough cough eldar, orks cough cough don't change pls.

Capillary tower or Infestation how ever you want to call it
This whole increase cooldown on rippers for making them free is one of the worst jokes I heard so far your not going to solve tyranid problems this way and it just going to look silly bad change is bad.

Hive Tyrant
Trying to make bio plasma better nice but still its got 2 better wargears to compete with, also venom cannon nerf is sad one of the best av tyranids have rip.

Ravener Alpha
Burrow Traps would be better if you can retreat from building them or stop building them instead of the 1sec less to build same with the hive node you can't stop once you start building it, also more hive node nerfs are just why it's rarely seen now would rather have a hive node turret thing than this nowadays.

warriors venom brood
Its good to see them get revert back to 2.3 with small unit size and abit more heath for warriors tho idk why your making adrenal glands cost more its already competing with thorax Swarm which if you ever want a chance to snare something bye bye adrenal glands even with heath increase from it you desperate need thorax swarm give you a chance to kill any vehicle hence why you don't see genestealers much no more I get onto that later. I said a long time tyranids will need another snare to go with thorax swarm other than warriors will be snare only unit from now on.
Venom brood with a damage increase will help but Im not betting that it will solve bad av problems.

Genestealers
Have a lot of problems atm one is adrenal rush is doing 4 things atm damage buff, speed buff, heath on hit, and range damage resistance and that bad you don't get the most out of this ability it can only do 2 roles one use it to get into melee hence speed buff and damage resistance but when you reach melee it runs out and no damage buff or heal on it.
Lets look at it the other way you use it in melee damage buff and heal on hit, range resistance is pointless in melee cos you already get 50% from being in melee and well just basic synapse gives you resistance too, spend buff not very useless too unless you are chasing something so yea doing 4 things before it used to give way more damage and heath on hit then it was easy on how to use it.

Now you want to be them cheaper for some reason, change unit armor to fire resist why would you even do this? now you want the make them passive heal 1% on hit then take that away on adrenal rush remove completely range damage resistance so now if they don't have basic synapse they get boned by range fire before it used to give 20% I think before it got buffed up to 60%. Take speed buff away and give them a melee change why? I like them without one made them diffent unique elite should be and now some more damage with adrenal.

So next patch genestealers are ded before they can even get into melee because no range damage resistance now become even more in need for basic synapse can't even get a get speed buff unless they reach melee range but they are already ded before they reach that due to range fire and they get abit better damage than before for these changes.............................. and let not look over the fact the want melee synapse for them guess what your only snare is on your warriors bye bye melee synapse that one of the main reason you don't get genestealers no more cos no melee synapse or you get rape by vehicles cos you want your only snare.
Don't you even dare change genestealers I wrote on this but I want them to be elite not crap.

Zoanthrope
Now this is something im very happy with symbiosis not only is it something new which is cool and give tyranids something like repair which makes boss happy happy :D :D

Lictor
Why nerf its heath and give it commander armor?

Carnifex
Idk why your making them cheaper for default fexs are crap as it is, soon as av come out time to upgrade if your already have not would rather have stats buffs. Venom cannon with some splash least it won't be completely useless vs infantry no more :D it don't need more speed idk why you give it tyranids want more snare not more speed for venom fexs.

Neurothrope
I like its getting cheaper but giving it zoan damage is dumb, it damage come from its abilitys that what makes it a fun unit to use micro it well does great not micro it well poop. Its fine with a cost decrease and paroxysm buffs could even give it back its shield instead of more basic damage cos trying to use neurothrope around a guo is like saying don't skill hook me pleas.

Swarmlord
Now I hate the Swarmlord even tho it should be the best tyranid unit in the game it sucks ass I can't remember how many times it got buff over the years but its the worse supper unit easily its damage is bad single target damage unless you use blade flurry which is hard as it is since you have to be a foot away, leech essence allows it to live and not die easily. The only good thing about it is speed synapse you can already get reinforcement as la or ht in t1 and most races get one in t2 so you wait to get your super unit to reinforce great................ I said before unless you give it splash damage or more abilitys fexs are just better simply.

I won't comment about gks cos I don't play them a lot and that my view on this log.
Last edited by boss on Sun 03 Feb, 2019 6:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Postby Sex - Murder - Art » Sun 03 Feb, 2019 5:38 pm

Torpid wrote:Finally on the LRC, are you mistaking it for the LRR? The LRC (the gk variant) as far as I know only has an energy regen aura. Whereas the LRR (SM variant) has a hp regen aura, reinforcement aura and retreat beacon.


Well I noticed some health regen aura when I was around it yesterday, maybe it was something else...
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Re: 2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Postby Atlas » Sun 03 Feb, 2019 9:20 pm

In order:

GUO is already listed as a daemon. The reason the Avatar is getting that designation as well is combined with the GK Term Hammerhand change.

LRC does in fact grant health bonuses on top of energy regen bonuses. But you can't retreat to it like the LRR.

Schepp, you da man! Tyvm. Hf playing the early build if it suits you!

Boss, pleassssse, sentence structure! It's a good post but so hard to go through. I think I got it though.
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Re: 2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Postby Indrid » Mon 04 Feb, 2019 11:05 am

Well done Atlas and Adila!
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Re: 2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Postby boss » Mon 04 Feb, 2019 4:56 pm

Atlas wrote:In order:

GUO is already listed as a daemon. The reason the Avatar is getting that designation as well is combined with the GK Term Hammerhand change.

LRC does in fact grant health bonuses on top of energy regen bonuses. But you can't retreat to it like the LRR.

Schepp, you da man! Tyvm. Hf playing the early build if it suits you!

Boss, pleassssse, sentence structure! It's a good post but so hard to go through. I think I got it though.



Well when I was typing this I didn't even know what to say to a lot of theses and just said the first thing that came to mind. I know I ranted abit in some of them and made a mess of them but they are dreadful changes mainly genestealers, raptors are I like to know the reason why they even ended up in the change log?

Like all these cost decreases don't make units better, cost decreases changes units timing in each match ups easy way to look at this is stormboys, they were 400rec 40power before now they are 350rec and 35power does this make them better?. No you just made them early to get out, dats not a buff its a change in there timings. If you want to buff something you look at there performance, stats ,abilitys not just decrease cost and call it a day.

Now going by that log the avatar, warp spiders, genestealers, fexs, neurothrope and swarmlord are all getting a cost decrease, instead of messing around with there timings look at the reasons why people ask for them to be buffed, then you can look at there performance and make them better aka a buff. Same can be said for cost increases as well.

Really want to know who ask for the autarch weapon change cos that just :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: 2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Postby Crewfinity » Mon 04 Feb, 2019 7:50 pm

Raptor AC was definitely overperforming for his cost :P

Atlas wrote:-Fixed an error in the splash area data for Heretic Grenade Launchers.
(Area_info distance values are now as follows:
Distant: From 1 to 3.
Long: From 1.5 to 2.
Medium: From 2 to 1.5.
Short: From 3 to 1.)


That's interesting - does this mean that currently, tic grenade launchers deal the least damage at the point of impact, and the highest damage at the outer edge of the explosion?
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Re: 2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Postby Black Relic » Tue 05 Feb, 2019 12:25 am

no it measn the GL was doing full damage at all ranges in the explosion and a bit more toward the center.

With the fix they damage of Gl will need a looking into.
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Re: 2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Postby Atlas » Tue 05 Feb, 2019 5:07 am

Black Relic wrote:no it measn the GL was doing full damage at all ranges in the explosion and a bit more toward the center.

With the fix they damage of Gl will need a looking into.


100% correct, GL Tics have been over-performing because their area data was incorrectly generous. Whether that warrants buffs idk, but your interpretation is entirely correct.

Also, thanks to the people who have been sending me bug reports! Those Tyranid bugs are quite nasty in more ways that one haha. Wednesday is probably the earliest I can get to work on a build 5 but keep the reports coming if you spot anything!

I'll update the changelog listed in the opening post as I start working on it and if Build 5 is ready for a test, I'll replace the Build 4 link in the opening post with that as well!

Feel free to keep leaving feedback!
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Re: 2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Postby Indrid » Tue 05 Feb, 2019 9:45 am

I understand many feel that the Raptor AC was overperforming, but I think having an upgrade that only applies to a squad leader (who is not die-last) is not a good solution. Unless that upgrade will persist through AC death, I'd rather the AC just be more expensive to begin with and keep his current loadout.
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Re: 2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Postby Torpid » Tue 05 Feb, 2019 10:12 am

Indrid wrote:I understand many feel that the Raptor AC was overperforming, but I think having an upgrade that only applies to a squad leader (who is not die-last) is not a good solution. Unless that upgrade will persist through AC death, I'd rather the AC just be more expensive to begin with and keep his current loadout.


It works like the warp spider squad's aspect - you buy that upgrade all any later, or previously purchased warp spider exarch models get upgraded weaponry.

It also gives you the option in very niche circumstances to buy that upgrade first before even getting the AC, if for example you want to invest in your raptors for a fight coming u psoon but don't immediately want the upkeep for the AC. Or if you want to shock the opponent with a very fast AC+plague marine combo to insta-kill a light vehicle.

And... vs heavy infantry threats such as nids, SM, OM or chaos you can just get the default AC ASAP because you don't want the AV as such, in fact you'd rather have power melee to combat their mainline infantry squads, synapse creatures or kill their set-up-teams which the lightning claw helps with.
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Re: 2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Postby Indrid » Tue 05 Feb, 2019 10:35 am

I see, that sounds okay. It works like an Eldar Aspect upgrade, but it only benefits the squad leader. I can see it confusing new players though.
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Re: 2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Postby boss » Tue 05 Feb, 2019 12:07 pm

Raptors ac is not over performing cos without him they scale badly and you pay alot for him for this, hes light av at best, heavy melee already does less damage to vehicles 50% less and again we hear this plague marine plus raptors ac kill all transports again this is a combo which most race have but most of the damage come from the plague marines and snare raptor ac just does that last bit of damage so what really op raptor ac or plague marines? use your brain pls

And speaking of plague marine wtf is this nerf reload duration increased from 6-6 to 8-8 how the fuck does this nerf them you make them now reload 2 sec slower wtf I never for one second thought that there reload time makes them op and I bet many other don't. I heard is them not dieing or not losing models is what broken about them so how about instead of doing a retard change you do one of these.
1. Plague marine now have 4 models like before. This will mean less heath per guy and will die faster a nerf 8-)
2. Plague will lose snare on there missile launcher. No snare on them no more aka a nerf 8-)
3. Plague marines now have heavy infantry. This will make them easy to kill with most damage types again a nerf 8-)
Do one of those, I say number 1 like before they have 4 models instead of a useless increase reload time by 2 seconds.

Also one last thing about raptor ac you say him having power melee a good thing guess what you already have a jump squad with power melee that does more damage, all with power melee, can take no damage for a while, be worship, cheaper, less pop, give less xp,less red. So yea
blood letters> raptors and what made raptors diffent heavy melee on leader and now your making them cost more for it GG.

How fucking retarded you just killed raptors cos now chaos builds with be setup teams maybe noise marines then blood letters come t2 they are better simply.

Also Atlas I complain with adila being anywhere near the change log let alone being balance lead cos if this is how the new logs going to look like no one will even bother installing first patch of his kills 3 units already rip warp spiderS raptors and genestealers G fucking g
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Re: 2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Postby Broodwich » Tue 05 Feb, 2019 5:04 pm

pm snare is 8 seconds, therefore the reload increase other than obviously nerfing dps also means vehicles have a better chance of getting away

The raptor change is welcomed, they got too much out the gate with the SL. At least now they have to wait to purchase the AV upgrade

The nids across the board buffs look a little over the top, but i guess we'll have to see how it plays out
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Re: 2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Postby Atlas » Tue 05 Feb, 2019 8:40 pm

Broodwich wrote:pm snare is 8 seconds, therefore the reload increase other than obviously nerfing dps also means vehicles have a better chance of getting away

The raptor change is welcomed, they got too much out the gate with the SL. At least now they have to wait to purchase the AV upgrade

The nids across the board buffs look a little over the top, but i guess we'll have to see how it plays out


Spot on with the PM change results. Also yes, now's the time to definitely leave feedback! I'm sure there will be tuning.
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Re: 2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Postby Oddnerd » Tue 05 Feb, 2019 10:45 pm

Can we just revert sentinels to what they were a few patches ago? Get rid of the undodgeable T1 mega rumbla stomp and bring back the hp boost. They were quite fine then.
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Re: 2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Postby Atlas » Fri 08 Feb, 2019 1:38 am

Alright, got Build 5 up! Changed the link in the opening post to reflect the new download link! The changelog is currently being updated to add all the new notes and status. Click on the changelog link for more info on the Build 4 -> Build 5 transition.

Alright, we've mostly gotten to the tweak section of balance changes, so I'm going to start working on the maps and tooltips in addition to the attribs. Don't know if I'll release those piecemeal or we can just wrap it up as a beta at the end of the day.
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Re: 2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Postby boss » Fri 08 Feb, 2019 1:29 pm

Well I hoped you look at what was said and revert more changes but well I guess hope dies around here since not much was change at all and still looks like a pile of shit. There are like only 5 or 6 good changes from the first one and I not counting gk into this and yet most of the bad ones are still staying in.


Chaos lord
Well done your coming to your senses about immolate, shouldn't even been put in there and you also should remove the blood lust red cost increase no need to nerf it.

Raptors
I find this funny you now lowering its cost haha why even is it still in? Raptors cost 500 rec and 65 power to get with the leader that's a lot already, now with this 550 75 its just so dumb having to make a squad leader pay more for heavy melee cos you won't be buying them without it.

Blood letters are just better for killing stuff just look at there stats for yourself and then look at why people get raptors cos leader had heavy melee and now your making it cost more, now people will just remove raptors out of there builds and just get lasscanons, plague marines and other av then blood letters just like before raptor leader got heavy melee. Just remove this change completely and tell the ones who cried about leader to use there brains abit.

Plague Marines
Again more random nerfs now lose 2 dps from there bolters Idk how you went from pm are too durable and don't lose guys too 2 less dps on bolters and 2 seconds less to reload on the missiles before..................
Like how you go from too durable to now need to lower there damage abit, maybe you should do something about there hp like 4 guys again which mean less hp per one, less damage per guy, lose guys, lose dps as they lose guys its very simply and not these random fucking nerfswhich does nothing at all cos the same problem is still there too durable and don't lose guys.

Rangers
Its the same with the rangers people complained that they were to easy to spam now with the cost decrease out of the gate right so maybe you look at there cost and change that right, nope you now reduce kinetic pulse range abit and put it behide there pathfinder gear.................................
how you get from to easy to spam and cost to low too kinetic pulse need changing wtf this is the one thing cyris changes did right and he wasn't even here and yet you guys are and can't do this right.

Increase there cost out of the gate and decease there pathfinder gear to compensate its slow down there timings, there spam and make the player invest more if cyris got this right I pray you guys can too but then again when I still see changes like this still in I die abit more inside :lol: look down
Autarch
She can now swap between her 2 weapons sound good right one problem she can already fucking do this do you even bother looking at your own changes just what the hell are you guys doing. why is this still even in the change logs remove it

Chosen Plague Marines
Still getting nerf why there are not op they are fine leave them the way they are.

Warp Spider Squad
Again why they getting nerf still

I just stop cos I cba going though all the changes and tell you again why most of them are bad its like this patch just been made up and just toss in changes from anywhere and call it a patch we already have to wait a year for a new one and get given a pile a shit at the end of it, if we have to wait least give us a good patch atm I don't see why anyone would want to update at all and that just sad.
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Re: 2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Postby Antandron » Fri 08 Feb, 2019 3:35 pm

boss wrote:Rangers
Its the same with the rangers people complained that they were to easy to spam now with the cost decrease out of the gate right so maybe you look at there cost and change that right, nope you now reduce kinetic pulse range abit and put it behide there pathfinder gear.................................
how you get from to easy to spam and cost to low too kinetic pulse need changing wtf this is the one thing cyris changes did right and he wasn't even here and yet you guys are and can't do this right.


Range 65 shotgun blast = AIDS
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Re: 2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Postby Broodwich » Fri 08 Feb, 2019 6:01 pm

i'm definitely not sold on the changes to hammer FC. The only problem with him that I see is when he is teleporting and activating battle cry, which can be solved by either increasing the energy cost of teleport (preferred) or increasing the energy cost of battle cry when he has the hammer.

Many people have suggested this before as well, so i don't know where the idea to make these pretty random changes to his special damage came from. TH is meant to be a melee deterrent to protect his army, is this considered too OP or something?
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Re: 2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Postby Torpid » Fri 08 Feb, 2019 7:50 pm

Broodwich wrote:i'm definitely not sold on the changes to hammer FC. The only problem with him that I see is when he is teleporting and activating battle cry, which can be solved by either increasing the energy cost of teleport (preferred) or increasing the energy cost of battle cry when he has the hammer.

Many people have suggested this before as well, so i don't know where the idea to make these pretty random changes to his special damage came from. TH is meant to be a melee deterrent to protect his army, is this considered too OP or something?


The problem there is that it feels like an unnecessarily heavy nerf to the power fist/teleport combo.

I suppose you could combine an increase in the energy cost on the teleport and a reduction in the energy cost of flesh over steel and/or battlecry with the power fist equipped. But then you risk power fist/iron halo being too strong.
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Re: 2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Postby Sex - Murder - Art » Fri 08 Feb, 2019 10:10 pm

I agree on Torpid. Energy increase on teleport may nerf power fist + tele combo for no reason at all.

I think we shoud increase the energy cost of Battle Cry when Thunnderhammer is equiped. FC power sword and Brother captain something something very holy named sword also makes a change on battle cry. So, why not try a change for Thunderhammer?
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Re: 2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Postby boss » Sat 09 Feb, 2019 12:16 am

Antandron wrote:
boss wrote:Rangers
Its the same with the rangers people complained that they were to easy to spam now with the cost decrease out of the gate right so maybe you look at there cost and change that right, nope you now reduce kinetic pulse range abit and put it behide there pathfinder gear.................................
how you get from to easy to spam and cost to low too kinetic pulse need changing wtf this is the one thing cyris changes did right and he wasn't even here and yet you guys are and can't do this right.


Range 65 shotgun blast = AIDS


Most races have a knockback in t1 apart from orks cos they just shoot stuff instead, eldar only main kb was rangers and I guess plasma grenades but those are meant for damage spike, to completely remove there starting ability kinetic pulse which has been in the game since forever seems just why it might be annoying but op no way it was there thing, damage is not cos they need there upgrade for that.

Again main reason people wanted nerfs was cos too easy to spam, removing there starting ability does not solve this and your doing nothing in the end and we end up here again a year late reverting this change and then we might get it right then changing there cost I don't know what else you want me to say its very easy to understand.

FC

There a reason why force commander combo called telehamer you already nerf the hammer side of things already and even with the 50% less damage people will still get this cos why teleport lets this combo works otherwise you have to find another way to use it. I don't know how many more times you won't face up to the fact that teleport on the offence hero a bad idea its never been nerfed once im sure, you just fuck around with the weapons on him over the years on elite mod.

I mean for god sake only has a 30 second cooldown that's nothing really, brother captain lost his teleport I wonder why cos it was a no skill ability you press hotkey and problem solved only diffence is fc has a thunder hammer or a power first instead both are dumb with a teleport, energy increase won't do much cost fc levels up like mad with the hammer cos he hits load of targets.

Only real way I see you can change this is increase cooldown on teleport too like 1 min and see what happens or remove it. But again it shows that instead of a right change you do a one that does nothing
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Re: 2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Postby Broodwich » Sat 09 Feb, 2019 6:39 pm

Torpid wrote:The problem there is that it feels like an unnecessarily heavy nerf to the power fist/teleport combo.

I suppose you could combine an increase in the energy cost on the teleport and a reduction in the energy cost of flesh over steel and/or battlecry with the power fist equipped. But then you risk power fist/iron halo being too strong.


Does he really need to be able to teleport and kill a vehicle all by himself? No other SM heroes have that option, and it's not like SM have AV problems. Just being able to TP and whack shit with 170 hvy melee (not counting leveling bonuses, which obviously apply by the time this combo gets purchased) is a huge deal in the first place
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Re: 2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Postby LOCALgHOST » Sun 10 Feb, 2019 12:43 am

Broodwich wrote:
Torpid wrote:The problem there is that it feels like an unnecessarily heavy nerf to the power fist/teleport combo.

I suppose you could combine an increase in the energy cost on the teleport and a reduction in the energy cost of flesh over steel and/or battlecry with the power fist equipped. But then you risk power fist/iron halo being too strong.


Does he really need to be able to teleport and kill a vehicle all by himself? No other SM heroes have that option, and it's not like SM have AV problems. Just being able to TP and whack shit with 170 hvy melee (not counting leveling bonuses, which obviously apply by the time this combo gets purchased) is a huge deal in the first place


u're better don't forget that's a 90 power investment. So WHY THE HELL NOT!

stop messin' with what's not broken. FC is fine. make FC terime not retreating, so people had to get more skilled play with libby and invest more, instead of constantly increasing cost and nerfing him.
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Re: 2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Postby Crewfinity » Sun 10 Feb, 2019 9:37 pm

I'm still of the opinion that having Kinetic Pulse deal damage breaks several matchups quite significantly - especially against high model units like tics, termas, etc.

Kinetic Pulse should be a control or setup ability, but it shouldnt be a damage dealer - it's way too low risk for having that kind of reward.

I would much rather just see the Kinetic Pulse damage removed entirely rather than any other changes.
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Re: 2.9.0 Update and Roadmap

Postby Oddnerd » Sun 10 Feb, 2019 10:13 pm

Seconding Crews suggestion. Without damage kinetic pulse is already a shotgun blast ability with a screen's worth of range and it perfectly fills the niche of soft-countering setup teams and melee charges. The damage is 100% pointless.

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