PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
User avatar
Antandron
Level 2
Posts: 156
Joined: Sat 15 Jul, 2017 11:50 am

Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Antandron » Mon 11 Feb, 2019 7:39 pm

Torpid wrote:
LOCALgHOST wrote:they useless T2 but overperforms T1.

to the previous responses - I've said about move leap/speed to upgrade. not to remove it completely. because you SHOLD PAY for that advantage.


They pay for that advantage in virtue of being tyranids - their t2 sucks. Just compare 3x horm build in t2 to triple slugga builds in t2. Or how chaos can scale from t1 melee spam into a diverse powerful army in t2...


"because their T2 sucks" is a terrible argument.
User avatar
Torpid
Moderator
Posts: 3340
Joined: Sat 01 Jun, 2013 12:09 pm
Location: England, Leeds

Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Torpid » Mon 11 Feb, 2019 7:57 pm

Antandron wrote:"because their T2 sucks" is a terrible argument.


?

It's literally their racial design.

It's like how sentinels and catachans are so overpowered vs melee in T1 because come T2 IG are absolutely horrendous vs melee.
Lets make Ordo Malleus great again!
User avatar
Antandron
Level 2
Posts: 156
Joined: Sat 15 Jul, 2017 11:50 am

Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Antandron » Mon 11 Feb, 2019 9:33 pm

Why not give IG a useful melee counter in T2 instead of OP stuff in T1?

Why not give Nids an OK T2 instead of OP stuff in T1?

No consolation to play vs a weak T2 if you get rekt by an OP T1.

Same for a weak T3; it doesn't matter if a faction has a weak T3 if they have an OP T1 and T2 since they'll usually win before T3.

(I'm not accusing anything of being OP. Well, not in this thread anyway.)
User avatar
Torpid
Moderator
Posts: 3340
Joined: Sat 01 Jun, 2013 12:09 pm
Location: England, Leeds

Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Torpid » Tue 12 Feb, 2019 6:31 am

Antandron wrote:Why not give IG a useful melee counter in T2 instead of OP stuff in T1?

Why not give Nids an OK T2 instead of OP stuff in T1?

No consolation to play vs a weak T2 if you get rekt by an OP T1.

Same for a weak T3; it doesn't matter if a faction has a weak T3 if they have an OP T1 and T2 since they'll usually win before T3.

(I'm not accusing anything of being OP. Well, not in this thread anyway.)


Your last sentence is true, but is this really the case with tyranids? I don't think so. Horms are only marginally better at melee spam than sluggas/heretics, but it is a very obvious fact that when a 3x horm build hits t2 it is much easier to deal with whatever the nid gets than when a chaos 5/6squad t1 with 3 tics, or an ork with 3x sluggas hits t2. I think it's a nice quirky race design and it also fits with tyranids that right from the start the pressure is immense, but as your units level and get more abilities the silly little a-moving bugs start to become quite weak.
Lets make Ordo Malleus great again!
User avatar
boss
Level 3
Posts: 422
Joined: Mon 22 Aug, 2016 11:48 pm

Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby boss » Tue 12 Feb, 2019 5:29 pm

Might I ask what's this topic about again op hormagaunts, hormagaunts op in teamgames or tyranids t2 sucks cos torpid says cos torpid iq showing again.

We should call this topic people crying about tyranids as always, I don't know what you want me to say no more as a main of them. Hormagaunts in teamgames mostly get shutdown my range fire before they can even get close to melee, there a hit and miss unit like most melee units are in t1 they sometimes do well or sometimes they don't mean you should bitch about the times they do well simply.

Same goes for 1v1 as well for melee units they sometime do well or sometimes they don't again don't mean you should bitch about the time they do, as for mass melee means you need to get counters fast then there build will fall apart its simply.

And as for tyranid t2 sucks that's bullshit if I ever heard it but then its coming from torpid so im not surprised, there t2 never been amazing but is always did the job for tyranids gave them a way to reach t3 while remaining competitive, that only started to change when you was messing around with how the whole of tyranids worked and still are so what really sucks tyranids or just your shit ideas stop doing changes cos we have to fix the mess you leave behind.
Forums great more shit to talk about.
Telos
Level 2
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed 08 Aug, 2018 7:59 am

Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Telos » Thu 14 Feb, 2019 4:19 am

LOCALgHOST wrote:https://dawnofwar.info/esl/match/37170355


Not exactly sure what you hope to demonstrate with this rep...?

You built 3x tics against 3x gaunts and consistently sent your tics into unfavorable situations.

Yeah, 2x tics lose when they go up against 3x gaunts. That's probably how it should work...

My initial thoughts were that 3x tics are not a good build against nids since they can't put out enough dps to really push them off. If he'd gotten 2x terms with toxin sacs you'd be in a far worse position since the tics wouldn't be able to do anything but bleed. However, on reflection if you'd gone Sword of Flame sooner and used it on the tics then they probably would've won a lot more of those engagements. You might have even not needed the havoks, and definitely wouldn't have needed 2... As it stands I didn't see flames used on tics at any point of that game and also never saw them worship. (although perhaps I missed it)

You literally won every skirmish where the squad count was even and if you'd been faster with your dark flames you probably would've traded your tics for 2 (possibly 3) squads of gaunts. As it stands, your 2 tics nearly wiped his warriors when they were surrounded by 3 squads of gaunts thanks to backlash. If your sorc or one squad of havoks were there you would've driven them all off. If you'd been fast with dark flames you could've wiped his warriors on retreat, doomblasted the gaunts behind you and gotten away with your tics.

He couldn't do anything when your havoks went into a garrison except walk away if his Barb strangler warriors weren't around and yet you still put them in garrisons when they were around...

You consistently left your havoks alone to guard points when his lictor shut them down with stealth/hook on multiple occasions.

He invested extremely heavily in T1 with 3 gaunts and 2 warriors along with feeder tendrils and pheromones. It absolutely had to pay off for him and all you really needed to do was keep it even and out-tech him.

I'm not claiming I would've played this any better, and of course hindsight is perfect. And I don't necessarily disagree with your feelings about gaunts (with the caveats mentioned in other posts). Except with Chaos... This is not a favorable MU for nids imo...

I don't think this is a good support for the point you're trying to make. There's too much wrong here.
LOCALgHOST
Level 2
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon 15 Jan, 2018 2:48 pm

Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby LOCALgHOST » Thu 14 Feb, 2019 3:41 pm

Telos wrote:
LOCALgHOST wrote:https://dawnofwar.info/esl/match/37170355


I don't think this is a good support for the point you're trying to make. There's too much wrong here.


yeah
but I demonstrate constant lose of tics on retreat - they just don't retreat that fast. The main issue is speed of gaunts = u CAN't retreat if engagement is started. just can't. forget it. they're dead.
User avatar
Atlas
Moderator
Posts: 2247
Joined: Sun 02 Feb, 2014 5:23 pm
Location: Tarpon Springs, FL

Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Atlas » Thu 14 Feb, 2019 6:14 pm

So we should nerf hormas. Got it. :oops:
Atlas: Minister of Common Sense, Reasoning and Similar Sh*t
Telos
Level 2
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed 08 Aug, 2018 7:59 am

Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Telos » Thu 14 Feb, 2019 6:30 pm

LOCALgHOST wrote:yeah
but I demonstrate constant lose of tics on retreat - they just don't retreat that fast. The main issue is speed of gaunts = u CAN't retreat if engagement is started. just can't. forget it. they're dead.


Uh, sorry no. What you demonstrated was how to judge an engagement poorly and stay in the fight far too long. Tics are not beefy units and if they retreat from a losing engagement without doomblasting before retreating then there are tons of things in this game that would wipe them. You started the fights with doomblast, stayed in, lost half the squad, then retreated...

This is how you easily deal with hormagaunts. Watch for 30 seconds.

Man those gaunts were really running down those scouts who were leisurely walking away from them. The gaunts definitely didn't have any trouble pathing around each other and blobbing up.
They're totally imbalanced... :P
LOCALgHOST
Level 2
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon 15 Jan, 2018 2:48 pm

Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby LOCALgHOST » Fri 15 Feb, 2019 7:47 pm

Telos wrote:
LOCALgHOST wrote:Man those gaunts were really running down those scouts who were leisurely walking away from them. The gaunts definitely didn't have any trouble pathing around each other and blobbing up.
They're totally imbalanced... :P


if gaunts reach scouts - they're dead
no matter of what
User avatar
Sex - Murder - Art
Level 2
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun 21 Oct, 2018 10:25 am

Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Sex - Murder - Art » Fri 15 Feb, 2019 9:48 pm

LOCALgHOST wrote:if gaunts reach scouts - they're dead
no matter of what


Really? Even after watching that video?

Pathetic...
There are many ways to say the right thing, and I choose the worst way to say it.
LOCALgHOST
Level 2
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon 15 Jan, 2018 2:48 pm

Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby LOCALgHOST » Sun 17 Feb, 2019 12:17 pm

https://dawnofwar.info/esl/match/37210542

Guys. free map control and -300 req when you retreat (-3 gens) - that's not right, guys.

Move speed/charge to upgrade or it will be a problem.
User avatar
Sex - Murder - Art
Level 2
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun 21 Oct, 2018 10:25 am

Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Sex - Murder - Art » Sun 17 Feb, 2019 12:32 pm

LOCALgHOST wrote:Move speed/charge to upgrade or it will be a problem.


It will not be a problem in the future, because it already is not a problem right now. Only 2 of you are crying about it, and rest of the community (including veterans, which you are not) also disagrees with you.

Ever toughed, maybe you are wrong?
There are many ways to say the right thing, and I choose the worst way to say it.
LOCALgHOST
Level 2
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon 15 Jan, 2018 2:48 pm

Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby LOCALgHOST » Sun 17 Feb, 2019 1:24 pm

Sex - Murder - Art wrote:
LOCALgHOST wrote:Move speed/charge to upgrade or it will be a problem.


It will not be a problem in the future, because it already is not a problem right now. Only 2 of you are crying about it, and rest of the community (including veterans, which you are not) also disagrees with you.

Ever toughed, maybe you are wrong?


stop insultin' me, boy

You watched the rep? It's with veteran in my position. He can't do anything. Later T2, mass bleed, no gens, lose map. Same troubles.

And about vererancy - how you count it btw?
User avatar
Sex - Murder - Art
Level 2
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun 21 Oct, 2018 10:25 am

Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Sex - Murder - Art » Sun 17 Feb, 2019 7:18 pm

LOCALgHOST wrote:
stop insultin' me, boy

You watched the rep? It's with veteran in my position. He can't do anything. Later T2, mass bleed, no gens, lose map. Same troubles.


I am not insulting you, I am just pointing out a fact; you are crying like a little baby, because you are just unable to do things on your own.

Yes, 4 hormos is annoying, but not impossible to deal with. Get a good counter (like a fucking tank, duuuh!) and its over. This is what makes dowII unique among rest of rts out there. If your army depends on one thing, and someone has a counter for that, you are fucked up, big time!

GK abusers started using double Purifiers, and oh boy isn't that a pain in the ass! Much harder to deal with compared to Hormos. But, unlike a little bitch, I came up with counters. I used my intelligence to deal with it, and won. Why don't you do the same?

The replay you put is probobly an early victory thing. I do the same with flamer tacs and tarantula turret. Steal the enemy power and win the game. Piece of cake! Should player cry about to nerf tarantula turret?

LOCALgHOST wrote:And about vererancy - how you count it btw?


Lol, I know that boss is unable to write things down because of his disability, but you don't have that excuse I'm afraid.

Boss, Torpid and my self are the veterans who are against you. Enough already? Then count rest of veterans who just don't even care about your stupid suggestion.
There are many ways to say the right thing, and I choose the worst way to say it.
PianoMan
Level 2
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri 30 Jun, 2017 12:40 pm

Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby PianoMan » Sun 17 Feb, 2019 7:22 pm

Did you just tell someone to buy a fucking tank to counter t1 hormagaunts
stop being a dickhead turk
User avatar
Sex - Murder - Art
Level 2
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun 21 Oct, 2018 10:25 am

Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Sex - Murder - Art » Sun 17 Feb, 2019 7:28 pm

He also complains after T2. For T1, just get a bunch of melee counters, have a better micro, and win the game.

Not easy I know, but not as hard as he complains.
There are many ways to say the right thing, and I choose the worst way to say it.
Yabbaman
Level 2
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun 24 Dec, 2017 5:37 pm

Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Yabbaman » Sun 17 Feb, 2019 7:58 pm

Sex - Murder - Art wrote:Ever toughed, maybe you are wrong?


toughed enoughed
Devon
Level 1
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri 30 Mar, 2018 5:49 am

Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Devon » Mon 25 Feb, 2019 1:01 am

PianoMan wrote:Did you just tell someone to buy a fucking tank to counter t1 hormagaunts
stop being a dickhead turk



Well, since you can call in Hormas in tier 3, buying a tank is a great idea. Kappa :lol:

Return to “Balance discussion”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest