PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
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PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby LOCALgHOST » Sat 02 Feb, 2019 11:15 am

You better fix hormagaunts' speed. It's insane. 6.5 + 3 charge? lol?

In vanilla we got speed buff only after horma upgrade, so it was fair - you could kite before upgrade, and after - you can't.

And nowadays every single tyranid go for 3-4 hormagaunt squads and chew scouts and gens easily

I could get an opposite point, and call that nerf back, if you give me some solid arguments.
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Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Lag » Mon 04 Feb, 2019 10:35 pm

I literally came to the forum to whine about Hormas just now.
Hormas have been just mental for ages now. I've been saying this ever since the Elite Horma buffs but I think the issue with Hormas is more with the leap. I simply think they should have no leap and that would make them way more balanced.

1. the leap makes it so easy for Hormas to tie up a ranged squad it's insane. While every other melee squad in t1 has to think really hard about retreating when a few cm away from a setup team (because of high damage at that proximity) Hormas just need one of them to make one of their stupid-big leaps to a setup team and it becomes useless.
2. the leap makes the squad scatter hard. simply because one model will choose one path, another will choose to jump over the obstacle etc. the squad gets suuuper spread out (I recently played a few games with Tyranids which was enough to see a single Horma squad spread out across my entire screen diagonally). This makes it super hard for stuff like shotguns and corner-nades to be effective. Sure, you can use them but you will get one, two models the most which defeats the disruption utility of those abilities.
3. the spread also fucks up one very important mechanic. DoW shooting is not 100% precise and there is a bit of fire that misses the model it's shooting at but hits the one behind it. Just focus a single generator and see the generator behind it lose health as well. Now if the second gen is losing that much health on that big of a distance, just imagine how much damage something close to the thing you are shooting at takes. The Horma spread simply negates that which is one of the reasons why focusing a single Horma squad with, lets say, 3 GM squads takes it down much, much slower than it does when you focus a t1 Slugga squad, Heretic squad, hell, even Catachan squad (which tends to bunch up a lot). This is also the reason why when you have, for example, 2 Slugga squads entering a suppression team will get them quickly suppressed both (if the setup team shoots at one squad the models from the second squad will get hit as well and they will both be affected by suppression) while the spread from Hormas makes it hard for the second squad to be affected.
4. I agree with OP, the speed is insane, and when you add Capillary Towers its gets mental. When you add the leap to it they are so stupid it boggles me how they've stayed like this for so long. Every other t1 melee squad closing in on Tacs and a hero drops to half health while it reaches the squad, while Hormas only take a bit of damage and then just tear whatever they've engaged to shreds as they haven't lost any models...

There's one more thing that bugs me with Tyranids. They are a "swarmy" faction meaning that they benefit from going around in a group (synapse and all that). When they move in Swarm they are kinda stronger than other factions, but the trade-off to their strength in swarmy movement is supposed to be that you should always wait for the entire army to reinforce and then get back to the field. In other words, they are a powerful force that, when fended off, should take time before they are able to join the fight again. One of the reasons Tyranid ulti is designed so that it's that underwhelming when it comes to damage is that it's supposed to give something very powerful to the army for longer than the nuke duration - the speed boost that makes the army around it go apeshit. Now with the Capillary Towers global ability the Tyranids have no real weakness attached to their swarmy nature. Sure a band engagement will provide some requisition bleed (which was also diminished by the 2-for-1 Elite upgrades on t1 squads) but the army can get back into the fight very, very quickly eliminating what should be one of their weaknesses in the game. It's like keeping the SM's low-chance for a model drop but speeding up the in-base heal so that damaged Tacs can get to full health in seconds and run back to the field. Killing the towers also doesn't really set Tyranids back that much so they can be aggressive with their placement and even if you pull off a good fight and force them to fall back - they don't really lose anything but red. Waagh banners cost resources, bunkers cost resources, drop pods cost resources, Chaos towers cost resources... Why Capillary towers are free, don't take up population and have as much health as they do is beyond me.

Anyway, I'm not a Tyranid player, never have been. I recently tried playing a few games and that resulted with me just simply overrunning my opponent in t1 while making power for my team everywhere and whatnot - 3 out of 4 times.
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Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Impregnable » Mon 04 Feb, 2019 10:49 pm

Elite is balanced for 1v1 only and 1v1 balance is based on highest skill level.
Only when one can absolutely prove that 1v1 balance is not going to be affected then team game can be touched.

Hope this post argue based on why hormas are op in highest skill level 1v1.
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Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Swift » Mon 04 Feb, 2019 11:09 pm

Wait til you see 2.9 Genestealers :twisted:
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Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Lag » Tue 05 Feb, 2019 12:05 am

Jesus. And Rippers from Capillary now free. Come t2 and setup teams stop mattering.
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Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Atlas » Tue 05 Feb, 2019 5:09 am

This is a really interesting thread so far, and one to keep an eye on. I haven't heard much about Hormas until this.
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Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Crewfinity » Tue 05 Feb, 2019 1:55 pm

Ive always thought that hormas put out wayyyy too much pressure in T1 for their cost. They have high speed and damage and they drop models suprisingly unfrequently.
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Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Sex - Murder - Art » Tue 05 Feb, 2019 2:17 pm

Hormos are fine. Maybe you did not notice but Hormos are what makes Tyranid T1 acceptible.

Termigants, specially default termigants, are just useless in T1. And to be honest, they can't even show a decent performance in T2 even with ranged synapse and stuff. At this point, hormos coming into play. They are what keeps alive Tyranids, since rest of their army is shit in T1.

Tyranids already have enough trouble against set up teams and turrets (specially turrets) and hormos are just helping out a little bit at this problem. Still, not a proper solution like Ravaners, which is not even a melee unit in T1.

And yet you DARE to ask for a nerf? Before you ask for a nerf, maybe you should ask why Tyranids are so shit and so easy to deal with in T1 in the first place?

Default Termigants : Useless piece of shit squads that are only good at controling incoming enemy melee threats
Warriors : Easy targets for free synapse bombs
Ravaners : Only decent unit after Hormos in T1 that are useful

Hormos are fine. Yes, they are dangerous, and they should stay like that. They are already easy to deal with, and just a simple melee counter is enough to make them loose models and force them to retreat. So why are you crying? Speaking of crying, I just can't wait how our little cry baby boss will cringe about this. ^^
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Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby boss » Tue 05 Feb, 2019 3:28 pm

I wasn't even going to bother to post on this but since people are trying to get hormagaunts nerfed again I guess I have to defend them again how lovely I really like doing this :twisted:. :twisted: :twisted:

Lets start with retail hormagaunts to elite hormagaunts, in retail they cost 300rec elite 240rec , same stats apart from cost more to reinforce retail19 to 15 for elite and I think there change range was reduce from retail and put into there adrenal glands in elite which is the same upgrade, it don't give a speed increase in elite and endless swarm was add for them.

Hormagaunts are a fast melee squad with good damage and numbers but pays for it with lowest melee skill 55 low heath and any aoe kills them hence special attacks and need warriors for melee synapse to scale past t2 to t3 to solve this or they become a capping squad. Idk why you guys are crying about them they very easy to understand and beat. Take away that fast speed away and they are just good damage and numbers and people will just let them die we don't want more sluggas units pls.

Also termagants are not so shit out of the gate no more there starting damage got buffed in exchange for less damage on the toxin sacs 15% to 10% that got added to default ones, so your not soo needed to upgrade them straight away and without termagants tyranid army's become much weaker.
Would be nice is tyranids got another unit to help with turrets and garrisons tbh.
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Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby LOCALgHOST » Wed 06 Feb, 2019 6:10 am

Sex - Murder - Art wrote:And yet you DARE to ask for a nerf? Before you ask for a nerf, maybe you should ask why Tyranids are so shit and so easy to deal with in T1 in the first place?

Hormos are fine. Yes, they are dangerous, and they should stay like that. They are already easy to deal with, and just a simple melee counter is enough to make them loose models and force them to retreat.


you're just wrong at all your points - no prob with setup teams = raveners for a cheaper than all other sut-counters cost. 3x horma 2x raveners is the best build for late t1 domination. You can eat all the map. If raveners will be just one squad - no prob - u go T2 for a TG/zoan.

Termagaunts are also not so shitty as you describe them.

btw 3 scouts with shotguns is not enough to counter hormas because of speed. And if you get even one grenade it will bring you to the stone age. You will face TG with your 3 scouts soon. Devs + vengeance is fine but 3 squads are easily kite them alone. and with raveners it's a pure gg.
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Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Sex - Murder - Art » Wed 06 Feb, 2019 6:48 am

LOCALgHOST wrote:you're just wrong at all your points - no prob with setup teams = raveners for a cheaper than all other sut-counters cost. 3x horma 2x raveners is the best build for late t1 domination. You can eat all the map. If raveners will be just one squad - no prob - u go T2 for a TG/zoan.

Termagaunts are also not so shitty as you describe them.

btw 3 scouts with shotguns is not enough to counter hormas because of speed. And if you get even one grenade it will bring you to the stone age. You will face TG with your 3 scouts soon. Devs + vengeance is fine but 3 squads are easily kite them alone. and with raveners it's a pure gg.


I'm sorry, but who in the gods earth goes for a 3 hormo + 2 ravaner build? IMO, you will be wrecked because of the constant hormo bleed and I don't think you would ever find a chance to tech up with this stupid build. You would be finished before you get the chance to get a TG on the field.

Okay maybe I burned termas a little bit too much, but that doesn't change the fact how ineffective they are. Upgraded 2 of them together only brings an acceptible amount of dps. You know, something that every fucking other race get with a single decent ranged squad. If yıu nerf hormos, that means I have to depend on termas, but they are just unable to close that performance gap in T1.

Even if you nerf hormos this patch, the imaginary problem you came up with will still exist. Okay, they won't leap into combat now. That means you won't get 3 shotguns in that matchup? TG won't come into play and wreck your build? Yes it will. Nerfing hormos will not change what you are crying about.

Tyranids are my favorite enemy to play against for a reason. They are easy to deal with and fun to kill. Keep that in mind before you decide nerf hormos.
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Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby LOCALgHOST » Wed 06 Feb, 2019 9:44 am

challenge you to a match SM vs Tyra
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Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Sex - Murder - Art » Wed 06 Feb, 2019 9:59 am

I don't get why you focus so much on SM. Eldar and Orks might have a greater struggle against your so called ''gg u r ded'' build.

Whatever. Lets see if you can calculate how much resource you will be spending in that match.
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Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Lag » Wed 06 Feb, 2019 11:25 am

The issue isn't about how many shotguns you make. The issue is that the one shotgun you make doesn't do what it's supposed to do to a t1 melee squad (or any tier melee squad) so the fine balance of countering stuff is gone. He mentions 3 shotguns to prove a point: that you need a lot more for a single or double squad of t1 units than there should be a need for. Any other squad the shotgun blasts does damage to 90-100% of the squad and gives you a second or two before they get you in melee. With Hormas you blast 2-3 models at best and then lose all ranged damage within half a second cause one model will get to leap onto the squad.
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Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Sex - Murder - Art » Wed 06 Feb, 2019 12:21 pm

Lag wrote:The issue isn't about how many shotguns you make. The issue is that the one shotgun you make doesn't do what it's supposed to do to a t1 melee squad (or any tier melee squad) so the fine balance of countering stuff is gone. He mentions 3 shotguns to prove a point: that you need a lot more for a single or double squad of t1 units than there should be a need for. Any other squad the shotgun blasts does damage to 90-100% of the squad and gives you a second or two before they get you in melee. With Hormas you blast 2-3 models at best and then lose all ranged damage within half a second cause one model will get to leap onto the squad.


Thank you, that explains the issue beter. It feels better when you are not talking to a fucking retarded.

I am aware that leap into combat makes it annoying to counter, and I am okay with this.

But this still doesn't solve my main issue. As I told before, Tyranids are depending on hormagaunts to win in T1. Termas are just not good at doing damage. A squad of Termas with Toxin Sacs are doing less damage then 2 (two) marine bolters! Put 2 of them together, still doesn't perform good enough and sooo easy to force them off. This is just awful.

I am not telling you to buff Termas. I just asking a simple question : '' Wtf am I supposed to do if you remove hormagaunts leap into combat? ''

Give me somthing that I can depend on. Tell me '' Well, we removed leap into combat, but now they have a super awsome charge into battle. ''

Or, make a change that doesn't make me loose a game if I loose my hormagaunts early on and don't replace them. Have you ever noticed that fact?

I am telling you again, Tyranids are my favorite enemy to fight against, because it is already so easy to deal with them early on. Don't nerf them for nothing, just make them acceptible for both sides and I am fine with that.
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Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Lag » Wed 06 Feb, 2019 1:23 pm

You can't just compare two units from different factions and decide one is shit because of that. You either look at the big picture and the place of each unit in that picture or we are not discussing balance but comparing specs. Those are two very different things. For example I could argue this:
Sure, the Tacs do more damage but they also are one very expensive unit which takes a lot more time to get back in the fight, which has a lower capping power than two Terma squads, that was less crowd control abilities (very important) and that arguably costs the same to reinforce come t2 (not in t1, I'll give you that). Also, come t2 you get all kinds of ranged-damage buffs for Termas which brings it to par with a Tac squad.
Very important also is that Tacs are one squad. You can engage it with a hero and it's damage output is just gone. Termas have Toxin sacs which are arguably the best crowd control versus heroes and jump squads in t1. You don't get a damage decrease using it (like Shootas do), you don't have to aim (like with stun bombs) and it's just a point-and-click give-me-5-more-seconds ability that comes in cheap and is a no brainer.

I'm not arguing that Termas are AMAZING. What I'm arguing is that you can't just take one aspect of the unit and it's role in gameplay and compare that to other stuff while ignoring it's other abilities, aspects and roles in the army synergy. It's like saying Heretics have shit damage compared to Shees and are therefore shit, ignoring it's many different ways it helps win fights on the battlefield (worship, suppression, cheap reinforcement, Chaos towers etc.)
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Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Telos » Fri 08 Feb, 2019 5:09 am

I'll chime in since I've been playing a lot of Nids the past few months.

First, I do agree that hormagaunts are very good at pressuring. They're efficient for their cost and their bleed (and they always bleed) isn't so bad.

But I also kind of agree with Sex - Murder - Art, hormagaunts stand out as very good units because:

1) they're just a very good for a T1 unit
and
2) Nid T1 is soooo lackluster

With the exception of Raveners (another unit that stands out as an exceptional T1 unit), nids just don't have a very good T1. Their faction abilities don't support units that well (broodnest requires them to be fighting next to it, catalyst is only really good for retreating units because of how damaging it is, stalk only applies to the LA) and the only wargear that directly supports squads is pheromones and even that's not so great because they bleed far faster than they reinforce.

I think this is important because it really effects how much pressure hormagaunts can put out. Stuns, knockbacks, AoE all shut them down very effectively. You can say that their spread makes it hard to hit multiple units but honestly this is just a luck of the draw and it's impossible to completely balance it. And with 8 models on about 800hp, if you kill 3 of them before they've even closed for melee then the amount they can accomplish is very limited. If they do manage to close for melee on your scouts then the natural response should be that the scouts have to retreat, as is the case with every other melee squad that manages to close for melee with them. If they close with Tac's and have lost too many models then they probably won't win on their own.

Note also that other factions don't have such an incredibly difficult time dealing with turrets, suppression, and garrisons in T1. As it stands now, the strengths of gaunts alleviate these shortcomings somewhat. They still lose to every other T1 melee squad, they lose to turrets if any squad is supporting it so they can't flank, they lose if any faction abilities or wargear come into play, and they lose if they get focused on the approach. This isn't to say that gaunts strengths mean these problems with nids don't need to be addressed. But they should be considered with them as a whole. I'd be fine with transferring the counter for turrets, suppression and garrisons to a unit like spore mines, for example.

Guants really aren't that hard to deal with imo, but I'd be fine with moving some of their speed and leap to adrenal glands if that's possible. Currently adrenal glands are a "nice-to-have" in T1 but moving speed and leap to them would just make them a requirement which is fine I guess. But removing their speed and leap, without compensating for nid T1 in some other way is basically saying "I don't want nids to be able to pressure me at all in T1 without overcommitting heavily to T1 (while I don't have to)".
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Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby LOCALgHOST » Fri 08 Feb, 2019 12:56 pm

Telos wrote:I'll chime in since I've been playing a lot of Nids the past few months.

If they do manage to close for melee on your scouts then the natural response should be that the scouts have to retreat, as is the case with every other melee squad that manages to close for melee with them.


that's exactly my point - they should? and they can't - because hormas charge and eat them even on descent HP pool remained.

and you re running all the game - just tryin' not to lose your scouts and gens. it's really boring. no honest confrontation. Like the tyranids are new Eldar :)
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Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Lag » Fri 08 Feb, 2019 6:15 pm

How is that a valid argument? Who here claimed that Scouts should beat Hormas in melee? Scouts were only ever mentioned in the context of shotguns not doing what they are designed to do because Hormas spread the way they do because of the leap.

We mentioned Tacs and melee, but the issue here isn't "whether a full health melee squad should beat Tacs in melee". It's "why do Hormas have almost full health/model count when they reach Tacs in the very first engagement while, for example, Sluggas suffer so many casualties, even when upgraded with flamers?". The game is designed so that in your early engagements you have to bring many important decisions which can either bring you victory or turn out to be a greed-caused loss. Do I stay in fight with the strongest ranged t1 unit in the game and risk losing my upgraded melee squad or do I retreat? Do I lose tons of models and potentially the whole squad while walking through suppression team fire or do I retreat? Do I engage despite the fact that I will obviously eat a shotgun or a nade to the face or not? None of these questions are there for Hormagaunts. Why? Because of the spread, because of the leap, because of the speed and because of their long charge distance. Not only that but it reverses these questions because of their stupid chase potential (leap+charge chase just keeps on giving), so in the end, instead of the Tyranid player asking himself "should I retreat these Hormas running into a suppression team" I have to ask myself "should I retreat this suppression team even though Hormas are suppressed because I won't bleed them on the way to the squad as they are stupidly spread out, because they will leap engage me with a LOT of models and because they will chase my squad for a full minute because leap+charge combo lasts forever?"

The point of this is that we are not talking about fine-balance of whether a squad should be strong or weak. We are talking about whether they are defying the basic mechanics of this game. Hormas are not supposed to be jump squads (Ravenors are) yet they kinda act like them. They are not supposed to be glass cannons like Banshees are - yet they chase as well as Shees without the bleed cost. They are not supposed to be a light capping unit that reaches a central point before Scouts do yet they do that. They are supposed to be a cannon fodder melee squad that becomes very dangerous with synapse support, yet they overperform early, chase/wipe squads with greater ease than a squad specialized in chasing and wiping and they level up and quickly become too strong even for stronger melee squads to deal with cause of health and melee skill - all of this simply because rules that apply to every other t1 melee squad simply don't apply to them. If you can keep them strong in some way that keeps Tyrannids viable in t1 but take away the leap - they might make sense to me again.
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Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Sex - Murder - Art » Fri 08 Feb, 2019 7:39 pm

How about this : Hormos act different under sysnapse when it comes to walls and covers. Under synapse, they jump over them. So, why don't we make the same thing for their leap?

Hormagaunts will not have leap by default, they have a charge. But under sysnapse, hormagaunts can leap into combat. This will make first conflicts fair and square.

Also, that will make chasing less less problametic (?) since they will most likely get out of sysnapse range while chasing.
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Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Lag » Fri 08 Feb, 2019 7:51 pm

Leap will still negate basic rules of the game. It's like saying all players have to tap the ball while playing basketball, but one player on one team can carry it like playing rugby ONLY while everyone else is watching him. Why?
You've solved one problem, but they will still easily negate suppression teams, not lose health because of spread, ignore shotgun-nade mechanics etc.
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Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Lag » Fri 08 Feb, 2019 7:52 pm

Oh and this whole time when I said leap I meant jumping in general. Not just leaping into combat but jumping over obstacles (which actually spreads them out, not the leap).
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Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Sex - Murder - Art » Fri 08 Feb, 2019 8:51 pm

I'm sorry, but I think you are overthinking about this problem. Remove leap into combat, remove jumping over covers, remove retreat killing, remove this, remove that... What will be left for hormagaunts then? And to be honest, they are not cheating at all. In fact, they are worse compared to rest of the players.

They aren't the best chasing unit, Banshees and Sluggaz (thanks to their burnaz and awsome speed) are better than hormagaunts.
They are not the best brawlers. They are depending on synapse to go toe to toe, and even then, it is still a question. Sluggaz and Banshess can beat them alone.
They can't cast special attack thanks to their low melee skill, which is vitally necessery for a melee squad. And also thanks to that, they will always be beaten by special attacks from others.
They have regular melee pvp, so they don't scale well against potental super heavy infantry threats. Meanwhile, banshes and sluggaz can still do some work against Terminators, Tyrant Guard, super elites, etc. Hell, Sluggaz can take down a Bloodchrusher with enough Warboss buffs! (True story)

They are good at only one thing than the others. One fucking thing... Tying up ranged squads (and really hurt them) without the need of flanking or any kind of tricks. And yet you want to remove that?

If we want to change hormagaunts, we should look at Tyranid meta in general. Their meta is depending on hormagaunts. And lets be honest here, Tyranid T1 is not flexible like other races. You can't really come up with different tactics early on. You want to change hormagaunts? Then start changing Tyranid meta first, then we can talk.
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Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Lag » Fri 08 Feb, 2019 9:10 pm

What will be left? If Hormas have nothing left without chase what do Sluggas and Heretics in t1 have? If Hormas have nothing left without leap and jump over obstacles what do Sluggas, Heretics have? If it's okay for them to chase better then Shees why don't they drop harder than Shees? What do you mean what do they have left? They are a melee squad which is cheap to reinforce (the only melee squad that gets 2for1 in the game), which benefits greatly from all kinds of synapse (health, melee skill, speed) and have pretty high damage compared to, for example, Heretics. They still have high speed without synapse, they still have long chase distance and that allows them to get into melee faster and get the ranged resistance you get when engaged in melee.
Why are you presenting them like they don't have anything except for the jump/leap?
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Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Sex - Murder - Art » Fri 08 Feb, 2019 9:33 pm

Maybe you didn't notice, but I did not compare them to Heretics for a obious reason. Heretics are not meant for brawling. They have shit loads of other benefits compared to these melee squads like worship, shrines, doomblast, detection, etc. They are backbone of an entire race, a very different class.

They don't chase better than banshees. Also, long chase distance and ranged resist while in melee are nothing new for other Banshees and Sluggaz. Nothing special for hormagaunts.

Lag wrote:Why are you presenting them like they don't have anything except for the jump/leap?


Duuuh! Because they don't. I mean, they are a decent melee unit, I agree on that. But obiously they are not as dangerous as you are claiming to be. They have only one unique ability that keeps Tyranid T1 alive, and I don't want to loose that.

My issue here is larger than hormogaunts. My issue is about the whole Tyranid T1 meta.
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Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Sex - Murder - Art » Fri 08 Feb, 2019 9:35 pm

Sex - Murder - Art wrote:How about this : Hormos act different under sysnapse when it comes to walls and covers. Under synapse, they jump over them. So, why don't we make the same thing for their leap?

Hormagaunts will not have leap by default, they have a charge. But under sysnapse, hormagaunts can leap into combat. This will make first conflicts fair and square.

Also, that will make chasing less less problametic (?) since they will most likely get out of sysnapse range while chasing.


Lets just focus in this idea here from now on. I want to hear what rest of us thinks about it.
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Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Telos » Sat 09 Feb, 2019 6:31 am

I don't really buy the notion that gaunts don't bleed. They drop models when the enemy looks at them funny.

Their leap can throw off abilities like shotgun blast and grenades sure, but that just means you have to time it a bit better rather than brain dead spam cast it. Kite back a bit after one charges, it won't get any special attacks and then cast the ability point blank on them when they're bunched up. They have so many models that a lot of their pathing is just getting around a model in the squad so any models not hit by the blast will probably be hit by domino knockback.

But I think most of this pressure from gaunt spam is only really felt by SM and that would probably be solved by moving some of this mobility to adrenal glands. Double termas are a better route in almost every other matchup.

I like the uniqueness of them being able to leap into combat, I think making it a synapse ability, an upgrade, or reducing its range are all viable options rather than straight up removal.

Nid T1 meta does currently depend on gaunts being able to pressure efficiently so they can make it to later tiers.
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Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Torpid » Sat 09 Feb, 2019 6:43 am

Not remotely convinced that any race, especially SM, has a particular problem atm dealing with hormagaunts. Hormagaunts have very little scaling vs SM. Every one of their heroes has an ability to insta-kil them, flamers do so much damage and there's all that knockback going around to make the poor little horms not get their retreat wipes off that they might get vs other races like orks/eldar.

Come t2 with merciless strike, and they shall know no fear on the tacs, librarian damage procs/smite, dreadnoguht aoe/easy inspiration procs, plasma cannons, whirlwinds, even the razorback's damage, horms are mostly useless.
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Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby LOCALgHOST » Mon 11 Feb, 2019 6:47 am

Torpid wrote:Not remotely convinced that any race, especially SM, has a particular problem atm dealing with hormagaunts. Hormagaunts have very little scaling vs SM. Every one of their heroes has an ability to insta-kil them, flamers do so much damage and there's all that knockback going around to make the poor little horms not get their retreat wipes off that they might get vs other races like orks/eldar.

Come t2 with merciless strike, and they shall know no fear on the tacs, librarian damage procs/smite, dreadnoguht aoe/easy inspiration procs, plasma cannons, whirlwinds, even the razorback's damage, horms are mostly useless.


they useless T2 but overperforms T1.

to the previous responses - I've said about move leap/speed to upgrade. not to remove it completely. because you SHOLD PAY for that advantage.
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Re: PPL say - get a topic. About meta-tyranid these days

Postby Torpid » Mon 11 Feb, 2019 7:06 am

LOCALgHOST wrote:they useless T2 but overperforms T1.

to the previous responses - I've said about move leap/speed to upgrade. not to remove it completely. because you SHOLD PAY for that advantage.


They pay for that advantage in virtue of being tyranids - their t2 sucks. Just compare 3x horm build in t2 to triple slugga builds in t2. Or how chaos can scale from t1 melee spam into a diverse powerful army in t2...
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