Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
Xen0tech
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Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Postby Xen0tech » Sun 09 Sep, 2018 3:51 pm

They got the crap nerfed out of them while other races got their weakness patched. When I left this game eldar were glass canons. Now they are just glass. I played all weekend and found the same mistakes I made as SM that might cost me a model would cost me an entire squad as eldar. I Thought shooting at eldar was like shooting at shadows and mist. Any chance of increasing the eldar units cost and making them a bit harder to hit?

The current eldar are just not dangerous enough for how frail they are. Remember your training the eldar are DEA... oh nvm they're just dead.
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Re: Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Postby Paranoid Kamikaze » Sun 09 Sep, 2018 4:00 pm

But Eldar is strong this patch...
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Re: Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Postby Xen0tech » Sun 09 Sep, 2018 4:18 pm

Not in my experience. When I play SM its so much easier. Maybe its just SM are OP
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Re: Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Postby Swift » Sun 09 Sep, 2018 4:43 pm

Why are you playing Eldar like they're Space Marines :?
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Re: Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Postby Nurland » Sun 09 Sep, 2018 5:14 pm

Dunno. Most people would rate Eldar on par or above SM in 1v1 at the moment.
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Torpid
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Re: Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Postby Torpid » Sun 09 Sep, 2018 5:22 pm

Eldar have way more hp than they ever have done... They certainly got no hp nerfs nor damage for that matter so the idea that they are no longer glass cannon and merely just glass is a bit ridiculous. They've also never been stronger vs infiltration too
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Re: Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Postby Xen0tech » Sun 09 Sep, 2018 5:31 pm

I guess I need to remember we balance around 1vs1. I am all for that I prefer 1vs1 but the sad truth is most people play 3vs3 and there is not as much room to outmaneuver opponents. WG was the answer to blobs but they are so crap now what happened.
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Re: Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Postby Xen0tech » Sun 09 Sep, 2018 5:43 pm

Torpid wrote:Eldar have way more hp than they ever have done... They certainly got no hp nerfs nor damage for that matter so the idea that they are no longer glass cannon and merely just glass is a bit ridiculous. They've also never been stronger vs infiltration too


Rangers used to 1 shot most tier1 infantry, that is a glass canon. Now they are a minor annoyance that can barely drop the weakest models in the game. Sure there was ranger cheese builds in 3vs3 retail but if we are balancing around 1vs1 then they were fine and any attempt to spam them ended with you getting locked in your base. I like the dow elite changes to rangers to an extent but come on they can't even 1 shot heretics after they get a leader that is so over the top.

If they got no hp nerfs than why do WG break so easy now.

What changed with infiltration?
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Re: Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Postby Torpid » Sun 09 Sep, 2018 5:47 pm

Xen0tech wrote:
Torpid wrote:Eldar have way more hp than they ever have done... They certainly got no hp nerfs nor damage for that matter so the idea that they are no longer glass cannon and merely just glass is a bit ridiculous. They've also never been stronger vs infiltration too


Rangers used to 1 shot most tier1 infantry, that is a glass canon. Now they are a minor annoyance that can barely drop the weakest models in the game. Sure there was ranger cheese builds in 3vs3 retail but if we are balancing around 1vs1 then they were fine and any attempt to spam them ended with you getting locked in your base. I like the dow elite changes to rangers to an extent but come on they can't even 1 shot heretics after they get a leader that is so over the top.

If they got no hp nerfs than why do WG break so easy now.

What changed with infiltration?


lol... smh.
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Re: Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Postby boss » Sun 09 Sep, 2018 6:32 pm

1. SM is still the weakest race in 1v1 not allowed to make any mistakes abit better than it was in retail but still the same.
2. Eldar is still one of the counter races to sm.
3. idk where you get this eldar weak shit from
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Re: Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Postby Paranoid Kamikaze » Sun 09 Sep, 2018 6:40 pm

Xeno, don't judge a race after only playing for a weekend. You need time to figure things out, improve, and gain new experiences.
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Re: Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Postby Oddnerd » Sun 09 Sep, 2018 6:41 pm

The fact that you refer to the retail snipers 1-shotting low-tier infantry says it all. You're having a hard time adjusting to this mod after playing retail.
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Re: Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Postby Xen0tech » Sun 09 Sep, 2018 7:17 pm

Totally disagree about sm can't make mistakes. I catch them out in situations where they have to retreat but still kill no models. Its do frustrating you do everything right and get their health below 10% and all models live.

Could anyone provide some replays? Maybe I'm missing a lot.
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Re: Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Postby Psycho » Sun 09 Sep, 2018 9:08 pm

Xen0tech wrote:Its do frustrating you do everything right and get their health below 10% and all models live.

That has zero to do with balance and more about RNG causing the damage to be spread out evenly across the models. This has as many chances of happening as all the damage getting focused on one model and dropping it while all the other models are at near full hp, and this is only more noticeable on SM due to their hp pool and low model count.
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Re: Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Postby Xen0tech » Sun 09 Sep, 2018 10:53 pm

But ranger shots used to guarantee the target that was weakened would drop.

Guardian damage spread isn't rng it always evenly distributes damage. Burst pvp unlike bolter pvp
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Re: Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Postby boss » Mon 10 Sep, 2018 1:17 am

All I can say is if you think eldar is weak vs sm than play sm vs eldar and see the other side of the matchup for a bit.
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Re: Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Postby Xen0tech » Mon 10 Sep, 2018 4:36 am

boss wrote:All I can say is if you think eldar is weak vs sm than play sm vs eldar and see the other side of the matchup for a bit.


I did. Never lost a squad. Piss easy. Anyone got replays of eldar owning sm I'd love to see.
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Re: Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Postby Psycho » Mon 10 Sep, 2018 5:36 am

Xen0tech wrote:Burst pvp unlike bolter pvp

What the hell are you talking about? The pvp part leads me to believe you're talking about damage type, which is piercing_pvp for both. The weapon type is eld_shuriken_catapult for dire avengers and sm_bolter for tacs, which are literally the same in all aspects within the codex except for damage amount and rate of fire. The weapon family is bolter_pvp for both as well.

You're literally making shit up.
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Re: Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Postby Xen0tech » Mon 10 Sep, 2018 7:40 am

Dude calm down. I was sure eldar shuriken damage was spread evenly over a squad and bolters hit individual targets.

I should have never made this thread as if anyone would support eldar on these boards. Dark reapers are not dangerous enough to compensate their cost, tech and weaknesses. Now I'm just rambling on forget it
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Re: Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Postby Torpid » Mon 10 Sep, 2018 8:35 am

There's replays everywhere but I guess you've only just returned and thus aren't seeing them immediately. Just come and join a high level 1v1 lobby. Look on the ESL for eldar games with players of an elo of over 1800. Watch the league games between SM and eldar.

Or ask to play some games vs me.
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Re: Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Postby Xen0tech » Mon 10 Sep, 2018 8:43 am

I'm keen to watch replays but my only source is indrid casts. Eldar always losing in his replays except once in a 3vs3 vs nids
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Re: Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Postby Xen0tech » Mon 10 Sep, 2018 9:28 am

Play some more 1vs1s and yeah its not bad. Too many 3vs3 games got me tilted my bad.
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Re: Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Postby Torpid » Mon 10 Sep, 2018 11:02 am

Xen0tech wrote:I'm keen to watch replays but my only source is indrid casts. Eldar always losing in his replays except once in a 3vs3 vs nids


If your only source of replays is Indrid Casts you shouldn't really be making comments.

Indrid's channel is not educational on how to play, it is for entertainment and the majority of his viewers never have and never will play this game.

https://www.dawnofwar.info/esl/log

Try the above, and as I say make sure to note the actual elo of the players you are watching. Eldar perform disproportionately badly at low level.

Suggesting elite adopts retail rangers in terms of their damage is obscene, but I am not sure you fully meant that. Whilst retail rangers thesmelves weren't totally horredous in and of themselves that was only because every other race had a blatantly OP unit or 2, that the ranger had to compete with, and in addition the rest of the eldar roster was weaker. Whilst elite has nerfed the rangers and shuriken it has buffed the Dire Avengers (guardians in retail), banshees, warp spiders, wraithguard, wraithlord, falcon and added fire dragons and dark reapers. Not only that but the other races with their OP units had such units nerfed and unlike eldar those races didn't necessarily get anything in return for it.

Orks had sluggas, shootas, weirdboy, stikkbommas, wartrukk nerfed. Only lootas and stormboys were buffed. Painboy was added though.
Sents/cats got nerfed.
SM didn't get nerfed but they were by far the weakest race in retail.
Bloodletters/plague marines/noise marines/bloodcrushers got nerfed.
Raveners/zoanthropes got nerfed.
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Re: Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Postby Torpid » Mon 10 Sep, 2018 12:18 pm

there has also been a high level 1v1 league recently so you should check out the games there. They show the brutality of 1v1 in a far more representative manner. You can find most of the games casted on various streamer's channels predominantly the event's host Adila's:

https://www.twitch.tv/adila610
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Re: Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Postby Nurland » Mon 10 Sep, 2018 12:56 pm

If you play team games then yes, SM are easier to play and are a bit better imho. Though the higher the akill level the better it gets for eldar there.

In 1v1 though it feels as if the match up is a bit eldar favoured at the moment.

Eldar have a harder time abusing their mobility in team modes for picking fights and capping map unless you manage to use it for good doubling and then sprinting back to your own side or to help another teammate.

Eldar generally rely on picking favourable engagements and capitalising on those.
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Re: Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Postby HansMoleman » Mon 10 Sep, 2018 1:50 pm

Xen0tech wrote:Play some more 1vs1s and yeah its not bad. Too many 3vs3 games got me tilted my bad.


I can send you a bunch of 1v1 replays with eldar if you'd like
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Re: Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Postby Xen0tech » Tue 11 Sep, 2018 7:50 am

I would like that especially Farseer :)

Just out of curiosity what can rangers 1 shot? I know heretics drop without a leader.
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Re: Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Postby boss » Tue 11 Sep, 2018 8:36 am

Xen0tech wrote:I would like that especially Farseer :)

Just out of curiosity what can rangers 1 shot? I know heretics drop without a leader.



Rangers do about the same damage as in retail with the upgrade but more spread out without high burst damage, also only tics and gaunts need one shot per kill.
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Xen0tech
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Re: Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Postby Xen0tech » Tue 11 Sep, 2018 2:53 pm

My steam name is Xen0tech I think I added you today Boss. I have made a few new friends in the 1vs1 circuit and seem to be doing much better now thanks guys. Sorry about the whine I do see how eldar still have the best counters to SM in 1vs1 now.

The only tier I really struggle vs is SM tier 3. Termies are scary. Best counter I have found is Gravity blade and webway mobility.
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Re: Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

Postby HansMoleman » Tue 11 Sep, 2018 7:33 pm

Xen0tech wrote:My steam name is Xen0tech I think I added you today Boss. I have made a few new friends in the 1vs1 circuit and seem to be doing much better now thanks guys. Sorry about the whine I do see how eldar still have the best counters to SM in 1vs1 now.

The only tier I really struggle vs is SM tier 3. Termies are scary. Best counter I have found is Gravity blade and webway mobility.


I don't remember which is which but they should have a bunch of Eldar things for you to look at
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