2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
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2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Postby Atlas » Wed 24 Jan, 2018 6:58 am

This section are the parts of the log that either has disagreements or uncertainty about what needs to be changed. Some of it is just ramblings that might interest as well. If you've read the first thread, then this one is the part that contains the big questions.

Keep in mind that just because something is suggested doesn't mean it's a certainty to go in.

You can find a Google Doc link HERE Either here or on the Google Doc would do just fine!

-----------------------------------


Gameplay:
Big change for melee heroes, so needs some more pro votes before it gets in. It's currently at a meh level.
All commander sidearms fire on the move accuracy reduced from 100% to 75%.

Chaos Space Marines
Chaos Sorceror:
Sigil of the Rift no longer requires the Sorceror to channel the ability. Duration of the rift is set to 8 seconds.

There's been a lot of questions about adding a T1 staff that helps the Sorceror deal with tanky melee heroes. Here's most of the suggestions some others and I have put in:

T1 Staff
Sorceror now has the “Accursed Staff” weapon wargear. Unlocks in T1. Cost set to [X/Y].
56 dph (40 dps) melee_pvp.

a)Improves the Doombolt ability, slowing infantry targets caught in the blast for 5 seconds in addition to its normal effects.

b)Grants the “Death Hex” ability, which slows the targeted model by 40%, lowers their damage dealt by 20% and raises their damage taken by 20% for 7 seconds. 50 energy, Range 25, 30 second cooldown.

c)Grants the “Infernal Gaze” ability, a channeled ability which slows the targeted model by 40% and deals 40 heavy melee damage for 6 seconds. 40 energy, Range 30, 40 second cooldown.

d)Now has a t1 staff that grants “XXX” dealing 40 heavy melee damage for 6 seconds and immobilizing a model . Range 20, cooldown 60 seconds. For 130/25

Eldar
Eldritch Storm:
Damage of first 12 bolts of increased from 100 to 200.

Guardian Weapon Team:
Models affected by Scorch now have a Doom indicator displayed upon them.

Ordo Malleus
Most of this is just my (Atlas') ramblings, but I put this out specifically because OM is a topic that's been pretty active as of late and I know bros who would love a chance to take a crack. The faction is still pretty open frontier.

Inquisitorial Stormtroopers:
Sargeant cost increased from 75/20 to 75/25.
Sergeant can now detect in a radius of 30.
Fanaticism no longer grants the squad invulnerability for 1 second.
Fanaticism now grants the squad immortality for 5 seconds. Cooldown 15 seconds. Energy cost set to 60.

Inquisitorial Operatives: bunker-buster version
Squad can no longer detect in a radius of 30.

Sergeant-
Sergeant cost reduced from 75/20 to 75/20.
Sergeant is no longer the last model to die.
Sergeant no longer grants the Melta Bomb ability.
Sergeant now negates the effect of cover on Operative shotguns in addition to his normal effects.

Fallback Plan into Demolition Kit -
Fallback Plan has been renamed into Demolition Kit. (still grants the Fallback Plan ability)
Demolition Kit no longer grants the Smoke Grenade ability.
Demolition Kit now grants the Improvised Explosives ability (mirrors Catachan IEDS, but cooldown is reduced from 60 seconds to 45 seconds)

Vindicare Assassin: T1 anti-setup version
Moved from T2 to T1.
Exitus Rounds damage per hit reduced from 190 to 130.
Cameleoline Stealth Suit tier requirement reduced from T2 to T1.
Turbo Penetrator Rounds and Target Acquired abilities are no longer available by default.

Extended Operations -
Now grants the Vindicare Assassin the Turbo Penetrator Rounds and Target Acquired abilities and increases Exitus Rounds damage per hit from 130 to 190 in addition to its normal effects.

Interceptor Squad: bloodletter-raptor version
Moved from T3 to T2.
Cost reduced from 450/60 to 450/50.
Justicar cost increased from 90/15 to 90/25.
Delay of Teleport and Furious Intervention increased from .5 seconds to 1 second.

Grenades -
Squad no longer starts with Krak and Psyk-Out Grenades.
Squad now has the Grenades upgrade, available in T2.
Equip the squad with Krak and Psyk-Out Grenades, effective against vehicles and infantry respectively.
Grenades now grant the Krak and Psyk-Out Grenades abilities. Cost set to 50/25.

Psycannons-
Squad no longer starts with Psycannons by default.
Squad now has the Psycannons upgrade available in T3. Cost set to 100/30.
Equip the squad with Psycannons, effective against vehicles. The squad can switch between Psycannons and Force Swords.
Psycannons now grants the Equip Psycannons and Equip Nemesis Force Weapons abilities.
Psycannons damage type changed from explosive to psycannon.

Orks
Warboss:
Use yer Choppas red cost reduced from 100 red to 75 red.
Bang Bang Hammer damage increase from 120 to 150. (dps from 75 to 60)
Bang Bang Hammer swing special attack damage increased from 55 to 90.
Bang Bang Hammer cost increased from 120/20 to 120/25.

Space Marines
Apothecary:
Not really talked about, but there were some changes suggested to the Apothecary that simply never got written into the log. Does he need changes?

Terminator Force Commander:
For TFC, there's two basic suggestions. Either increase the cost again or lower the effectiveness of the package.
a)Revert cost change

b)Health reduced from 2500 to 1500.
Health regeneration reduced from 3.5 hp/s to 2.5 hp/s.
Heavy Flamer cost increased from 70/40 to 75/45.
Cleansing Flame radius reduced from 15 to 10.
Lightning Claws charge range reduced from 18 to 12.

Terminator Squad:
Cleansing Flame radius reduced from 15 to 10.

Sternguard:
Vengeance Rounds damage versus vehicles reduced from .5 to .4.

Tyranids
Ravener Alpha:
This will probably go in, it just needs info and checking.
Acid Splatter needs to be reverted
Acid Splatter splash damage reduced from 20 to 15.
Acid Splatter main damage per hit increased from 85 to 100.

Hormagant Squad:
Leap changed to half dmg
Hormagants /Termagants upkeep lowered from 3.825 to 3.125.

Zoanthrope:
The exact quote is "Symbiosis first, THEN firing modes for Zoans." but this idea still needs refinement either way.
Focused Warp Blast ability removed.
Zoanthropes now have two fire modes - Warp Blast and Focused Warp Blast. Requires a toggle to go between them. 6 seconds to swap between the two modes.
Warp Blast is the same as the default attack.
Focused Warp Blast removes area of effect damage, changes the damage type from psychic_pvp to explosive_pvp. Setup time is required before firing?
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Re: 2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Postby Rostam » Wed 24 Jan, 2018 11:27 am

1-About the eldrich pls change it to 150 (from 100) and not 200 (also give Fireprisms 600 hp instead of 500 pls for 5 more power from 450-135 to 450-140 and remove Wraith lord Hp Regen)
2-T1 staff for sorcerer not the best idea,but I think option C sounds good (Basically giving sorc mindwar which is nice)
3-Apothecary Default Hp buff would be good (650 mb) also deafault chainsword mb buffed (from 25 to 30)
4-Apothecary combat steams can get a bit of love by some energy regen (like 1 e/s and +20 energy)
5-Apothecary bolter a little bit of nerf on it (weapon range and dps mb a tiny bit) also pls fix the multiple stun
6-PLEASE dont buff the warboss,Hammer is good as it is at least make it 30 for what u give it to him
7-Terminator FC REVERT COST CHANGE to pre-heresy
8-pls nerf stern guard vengeance rounds
9-good change on lower upkeep of little nids,
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Re: 2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Postby Adeptus Noobus » Wed 24 Jan, 2018 5:07 pm

The scorch beam indicator should not be controversial at all since its always good to reveal hidden mechanics. That is not just about quality of life but balance actually.

Concerning the HP reduction of the TFC I will copy what I have written to you before:
But you are looking at this in a vacuum. Yes, 2500 might sound a lot, until you get plasma_pvp on him. While Commander armor took more dmg from piercing than heavy infantry, heavy infantry takes disproportionally more from plasma_pvp than Commader armor. It is not even a bad option to swap piercing for plasma_pvp just to battle him because almost everything that is SM is clad in heavy infantry armor. Now 2500 hp start to make a lot more sense. But if you try to combat the TFC with AKST then....ye....dunno....you deserve to be yolo trolled by him.
The price just needs to go up again and he will be fine

as the timings will be fine again as well. People are getting screwed by him because he comes too early and with too little cost.
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Re: 2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Postby Schepp himself » Wed 24 Jan, 2018 5:23 pm

I like the firing modes for the Zoanthrope.

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Re: 2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Postby Tex » Wed 24 Jan, 2018 7:04 pm

Bang bang hammer is returning to its original form. It has not received any buff at all.

I'm honestly willing to try and keep it at 20 power as a weaker item to get a better timing window for it, but I leave this to the masses.
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Re: 2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Postby Atlas » Wed 24 Jan, 2018 8:52 pm

Tex wrote:Bang bang hammer is returning to its original form. It has not received any buff at all.

I'm honestly willing to try and keep it at 20 power as a weaker item to get a better timing window for it, but I leave this to the masses.


Would rather just leave it alone as well. Don't understand why a rework is necessary over a tweak, same with Curse of Tzeentch.
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Re: 2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Postby Paranoid Kamikaze » Wed 24 Jan, 2018 10:27 pm

Can we have upgrade changes on ranged Termies like with Tacs? Would be nice.
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Re: 2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Postby PhatE » Fri 26 Jan, 2018 1:21 am

What about the massive range that Purgations have after getting Psycannons? To be hit by a heavy weapon as if they were rangers seems like a bit much.
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Re: 2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Postby Antandron » Fri 26 Jan, 2018 8:44 am

PhatE wrote:What about the massive range that Purgations have after getting Psycannons? To be hit by a heavy weapon as if they were rangers seems like a bit much.


Comparing units from different rosters is stoopid.
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Re: 2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Postby Atlas » Fri 26 Jan, 2018 7:13 pm

And tbf, the range on psilencers is the same as other autocannon-like weapons. I don't think the range is the problem here.

@Terms weapon changing, Kami do you mind explaining a bit about why that would be good? As read, I have concerns that it would be too strong with being able to swap out say a cyclone missile launcher once a tank is dead into a heavy flamer to roast infantry.
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Re: 2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Postby PhatE » Sat 27 Jan, 2018 1:57 am

Antandron wrote:...


Except I'm not. It's a simple comparison on range to give some idea rather than a vague "it's really long"

Atlas wrote:...


Except what's their tear down speed and how long before they start firing (rhetorical). Given that they don't really make much sound when they're hitting you from beyond the FOW (almost the length of the pie on Calderis) it's not a very good or clear indicator that you're being hit. Just because it may align with autocannons doesn't mean that they should have the same characteristics.

I made note of this in the thread I made regarding the range. It would appear that they unload their entire clip irrespective of whether they can see you or not. When I was playing against Fear, units were still taking damage from Pyscannons from roughly where the start of the top VP is to the bottom of the nat req of top. As in, where the cover ends. No-one really answered this from those who provide input and make the final decisions as to where it ends up. At least none that I am aware of.

I don't really play this game any more so I don't especially care where it goes. However, nostalgia doesn't really agree with a lot of what happens each patch.
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Re: 2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Postby Atlas » Sat 27 Jan, 2018 7:33 am

But PhatE, from what I know, all autocannons behave like that? Both IG and Havoc autocannons always get a full salvo on you even if you move outside the edge of their threat range. As for vfx, I don't think it's very hard to missing all the little blue balls being fired.

Idk, maybe it's just me.
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Re: 2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Postby PhatE » Sun 28 Jan, 2018 1:25 am

Atlas wrote:...


I don't know why anyone seriously bothers anymore...
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Re: 2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Postby Paranoid Kamikaze » Sun 28 Jan, 2018 4:33 am

Atlas wrote:@Terms weapon changing, Kami do you mind explaining a bit about why that would be good? As read, I have concerns that it would be too strong with being able to swap out say a cyclone missile launcher once a tank is dead into a heavy flamer to roast infantry.


Had a team game where opponent mainly had infantry so I got canons. They then switched to vehicle spam and all I had were multiple Termies and a Land Raider. I could melee them if they got close but switching to Cyclone would be useful too. FC Termie can change weapons and so can Tacs so Termies being versatile just kinda fits to me.
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Re: 2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Postby Cyris » Sun 28 Jan, 2018 4:44 am

Quick and dirty OM thoughts:

Expands T1 and T2 build options.
Please don't re-add IST detectors.
Ops have less of a role then ever.

I like where this is going!
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Re: 2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Postby Rostam » Sun 28 Jan, 2018 10:19 am

Actually IST Sargent detector is a good idea, since the power cost increase (15 to 25) that justifies it. nice to have it around.
good idea
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Re: 2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Postby boss » Sun 28 Jan, 2018 11:17 am

ist sergeant is 15 power atm atlas not 20 so you be adding 10 power increase not 5
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Re: 2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Postby Atlas » Mon 29 Jan, 2018 4:53 am

PhatE wrote:
Atlas wrote:...


I don't know why anyone seriously bothers anymore...


After re-reading the comment, I apologize for not really addressing the first part. The setup time is something that should be considered as well, yes. But I was serious in saying that psilencers deliver the damage with the same method that autocannons do. I can pass this on.

Paranoid Kamikaze wrote:Had a team game where opponent mainly had infantry so I got canons. They then switched to vehicle spam and all I had were multiple Termies and a Land Raider. I could melee them if they got close but switching to Cyclone would be useful too. FC Termie can change weapons and so can Tacs so Termies being versatile just kinda fits to me.


Wow, you fielded multiple Termis and a Land Raider in 1s? *whistle* wouldn't have wanted to be the guy on the other end of that. I don't really know what to say since I feel like you could have had some kind of AV ready :/ still, I'll bring it up.

Cyris wrote:Quick and dirty OM thoughts:

Expands T1 and T2 build options.
Please don't re-add IST detectors.
Ops have less of a role then ever.

I like where this is going!


I've actually changed my mind a bit on some stuff for OM. I'm starting to wonder if it would be better to just put the flame nade onto the Ops like you said earlier Cyrus. It gives them a more killy option at taking out setups in addition to the blind nade they already have. Plus, that way, it would involve a lot less overall # of changes instead of moving a bunch of units around.

As for the detection, I think it would be ok to swap the detector back onto IST sarg. The reasoning for this is that, while I'm playing, I would want detection near my main army so as to prevent all sorts of nasty stuff that invisible enemy units can cause. Ops are usually better when they can venture off to the side or way in the front or something, so the detection is rarely in position where you want it as is.

As a final note, the OM stuff that's written in the OP of this thread are NOT slated changes at all. They were just my own musings on some ideas to work on OM with. The "Curse of the Machine Spirit" idea for the GK Libby is one I didn't even think about for example, and since there was some interest in it, we'll look into it now.
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Re: 2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Postby Oddnerd » Mon 29 Jan, 2018 3:30 pm

Fire nades and flashbangs would give them a good mix of killiness and utility.
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Re: 2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Postby Rostam » Mon 29 Jan, 2018 4:33 pm

@Atlas
Flamer dread seems to overperform by default for GK, supression,Flamer damage and knock back from maelstrom
can u make the gk dread melee by default and give maelstrom to multi melta dread instead? plasma and melta upgrade should suffice for gk dread
also pls no sidearm twin linked bolter for plasma dread . plasma dread is good as it is
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Re: 2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Postby Atlas » Mon 29 Jan, 2018 8:18 pm

Rostam wrote:@Atlas
Flamer dread seems to overperform by default for GK, supression,Flamer damage and knock back from maelstrom
can u make the gk dread melee by default and give maelstrom to multi melta dread instead? plasma and melta upgrade should suffice for gk dread
also pls no sidearm twin linked bolter for plasma dread . plasma dread is good as it is


Why would you ever upgrade into the flamer dread though? All of its other upgrades scale so much better than a close range, anti-infantry walker. For a similar reason, I see the multi-melta as a unit that primarily targets vehicles. Giving it what is ultimately an anti-infantry ability to me seems a bit confusing.

I think, timing wise, the flamer upgrade is the most useful early in T2 where you have a chance of catching an opponent that decided to focus on infantry upgrades and wargear instead of vehicles. The other upgrades offer you options against other vehicles and blobs and other walkers, which all take a bit longer to hit the field. I think that part of it, like the Chaos Dreadnought, has it right with how the weaponry is set up for default and upgrades.

As for the plasma hellfire version, I'll admit that I didn't really like it when it was put in. I still really don't and honestly, if we're doing a hellfire dread, I would have rather put it on the Tzeentch Dreadnought since the Missile Launcher and the Autocannon don't double-f*ck vehicle targets as hard as the Hellfire Plasma does to infantry.

On the other hand, at this point I would do anything possible to keep assets in the game. I think it's a shame we lost the LRC call-in and am still looking for ways to put the Eviscerator back into the game for example in a way that makes sense for the unit. Unless something amazing happens, we're not getting any more assets. Let's not waste what the modelers provide.
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Re: 2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Postby Broodwich » Tue 30 Jan, 2018 3:29 am

Since everyone hates you as soon as you go GK, i haven't really played them in a while

What are ops intended role? Originally they were a setup counter iirc, but GK was already made to counter SUTs without them (brocap, ist gl) similar to CL. When do you actually buy them? Granted I play teem gaymes mostly but I never see them other than someone being annoying bashing power/capping behind enemy lines

Detectors are used to defend armies from infiltrators, so i don't see a very good use for them running around behind enemy lines like ops do. But they also have no defensive capabilities other than a stun that can be dodged/do ff. If they are sitting around on your army then they are wasting half their potential of being annoying somewhere else. The unit has always felt a bit like GK as a whole: a bunch of randomly patched together abilities trying to make something work. And usually failing.

If you want them to be defensive, give them more defensive stuff like shotgun blast or w/e. If you want them to be all sneaky like then move detection to another unit. Or just get rid of them altogether, and move their abilities to other units. I almost never bought them because they fill no clear role for me in a GK build. The cost and micro is best spent elsewhere

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Re: 2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Postby Atlas » Tue 30 Jan, 2018 4:52 am

Ops are an offensive sabotage and anti-setup unit. At least, that is the reason that I buy them. They also do fine dps especially if you take advantage of their damage boost from stealth, but primarily I see them helping a main army by dealing with a setup team and either being extra dps or heading out to the side and doing damage there.

Originally, Ops were a dps and sabotage unit only. They were meant to hit hard and hit all sorts of things. Torpid was the one to specialize them more towards anti-setup. I think that general direction is fine.

After using them a bit, I actually think that they are in an "almost there" state. I don't think they're worthless, but they need a bit more focusing and streamlining of what they could do. I would:

1) Remove the detection, put that on IST. This encourages letting the Ops work away from the army.

2) Remove the smoke nade, put in the flame nade. The blind nade lowers enemy vision and weapon range and while that's nice, I think the Ops could benefit from a killy option on top of their support option ala Spotters. The Smoke nade, like the detection, encourages the Ops to stay near the army so they can benefit and like 1), I think we should phase that out.

3) Add some kind of IED or mine to the Fallback Plan. I think the synergy here would be pretty nice. This idea came to me from some of the Inner Circle's writing, but I think it makes some sense.

The only things I'm not really sure on is how/if the Sergeant needs some adjustments.
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Re: 2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Postby Tex » Tue 30 Jan, 2018 2:21 pm

Atlas wrote:
PhatE wrote:
Atlas wrote:...


I don't know why anyone seriously bothers anymore...


After re-reading the comment, I apologize for not really addressing the first part. The setup time is something that should be considered as well, yes. But I was serious in saying that psilencers deliver the damage with the same method that autocannons do. I can pass this on.

Paranoid Kamikaze wrote:Had a team game where opponent mainly had infantry so I got canons. They then switched to vehicle spam and all I had were multiple Termies and a Land Raider. I could melee them if they got close but switching to Cyclone would be useful too. FC Termie can change weapons and so can Tacs so Termies being versatile just kinda fits to me.


Wow, you fielded multiple Termis and a Land Raider in 1s? *whistle* wouldn't have wanted to be the guy on the other end of that. I don't really know what to say since I feel like you could have had some kind of AV ready :/ still, I'll bring it up.

Cyris wrote:Quick and dirty OM thoughts:

Expands T1 and T2 build options.
Please don't re-add IST detectors.
Ops have less of a role then ever.

I like where this is going!


I've actually changed my mind a bit on some stuff for OM. I'm starting to wonder if it would be better to just put the flame nade onto the Ops like you said earlier Cyrus. It gives them a more killy option at taking out setups in addition to the blind nade they already have. Plus, that way, it would involve a lot less overall # of changes instead of moving a bunch of units around.

As for the detection, I think it would be ok to swap the detector back onto IST sarg. The reasoning for this is that, while I'm playing, I would want detection near my main army so as to prevent all sorts of nasty stuff that invisible enemy units can cause. Ops are usually better when they can venture off to the side or way in the front or something, so the detection is rarely in position where you want it as is.

As a final note, the OM stuff that's written in the OP of this thread are NOT slated changes at all. They were just my own musings on some ideas to work on OM with. The "Curse of the Machine Spirit" idea for the GK Libby is one I didn't even think about for example, and since there was some interest in it, we'll look into it now.


Catachans are better off on the periphery of combat as well, but if you want to protect your butt from invisible nastiness, then you had better keep them close to the main army at times amirite?
Ops having the detector is good as it makes them more integral, and more necessary in certain matchups. Having a detector on basic units really allows build orders to be brain dead, IE) Shoota nobs, also, remember when DA leader had detection?
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Re: 2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Postby boss » Tue 30 Jan, 2018 5:49 pm

Inquisitorial operatives are a very shit version of shotgun scouts, they are just a bad unit atm they don't counter melee, they don't counter range, they don't even counter setup teams even tho they were to replace interceptor for this role somehow, you can't buff them cos they end up like 2.4 and now they are the detect like now you need them vs knob or lictor like tell me what they going to do vs orks and nids apart from die?

Till atlas see this gk will never be fix
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Forestradio
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Re: 2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Postby Forestradio » Wed 31 Jan, 2018 1:58 am

Atlas wrote:Originally, Ops were a dps and sabotage unit only
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Re: 2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Postby lomors » Sun 04 Feb, 2018 11:22 pm

I'm totally in for changing weapons for termies. It just bites me everytime why it's not possible.

a) Pls don't nerf fc termi armor that much.. It's really a silly idea. I think raise cost increase is ok. I don't agree with "all nerf all buff" policy.

Just please remember that fc player when goes from t1 to t3 and wants termie armor to be something really good in exchange for wargear that fc already has. Nerfing it by 1000 hp is gonna completely change it. I'm in for raising a cost

b) When it comes to storm I think you should revert change a bit - by how much it is up to you.

c) there's that bug around eldar nuke that when you put units inside transport vehicle it deals extra damage. I think it's a main reason why storm got nerfed so much because on few replays it actually looks like it's killing everything. I have a replay of it as well, it's really easy to check it out. Please take note that when you buff storm again it's gonna do even more damage to landraiders so don't be like ":OO we have to nerf it again". I have no idea if there's a way to fix this bug but I feel that getting rid of it would fix storm balance problem for good.

d) as for sorc staff - I'm in for option b but please make a it a bit weaker. It sounds atm like doom on steroirds. Just imagine it on banshees.

e) as for the moment balance changes for gk are just here to remind me that this faction exists. I have no idea what's going on just make it people not hate it pls.

LR drop in was the coolest thing ever could be. It was so cool it would defeat any balance discussion in my mind.
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Re: 2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Postby Paranoid Kamikaze » Sun 04 Feb, 2018 11:33 pm

I would rather Termie FC he just got his health nerfed. It shouldn't be a no brainer compared to his regular wargear.
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Re: 2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Postby Dark Riku » Mon 05 Feb, 2018 12:18 am

lomors wrote:c) there's that bug around eldar nuke that when you put units inside transport vehicle it deals extra damage. I think it's a main reason why storm got nerfed so much because on few replays it actually looks like it's killing everything. I have a replay of it as well, it's really easy to check it out. Please take note that when you buff storm again it's gonna do even more damage to landraiders so don't be like ":OO we have to nerf it again". I have no idea if there's a way to fix this bug but I feel that getting rid of it would fix storm balance problem for good.
It actually did kill everything. It annihilates infantry, it annihilates tanks and disables them. Why does the Eldar nuke have to be this good in everything?
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Re: 2.8 Non-Consensus Thread (Part 2 of 2)

Postby boss » Tue 06 Feb, 2018 12:38 am

Eldrich should not have it old damage not by a long shot would be very nice if you fix the bug with it.

Terminator Force Commander should just go back to it old ways before torpid started fucking around with it.

Apothecary: should have gotten the healing buff idk why it was remove but I guess there still no reason to pick apo over skillcommder and tm.

Tyranids apart from the firing mode which should be in the next patch the rest is fine

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