Why do Raveners have to give up their devourer to upgrade?

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
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Oddnerd
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Why do Raveners have to give up their devourer to upgrade?

Postby Oddnerd » Thu 03 Jan, 2019 4:19 pm

It seems like a steep cost to pay for a unit that admittedly has great speed and burrow, but in terms of combat stats is a pretty unremarkable melee unit (100 total melee dps and 1080 infantry hp).

That bursty ranged damage is such a big selling point for raveners and can continue to be useful later in the game when you are gunning down enemy commanders.

Did they once get to keep the devourer and end up being too strong?
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Sex - Murder - Art
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Re: Why do Raveners have to give up their devourer to upgrade?

Postby Sex - Murder - Art » Thu 03 Jan, 2019 8:02 pm

Because that would make them turn into a power melee jump squads with really really good ranged weapon option.

If you want them to use them as a melee squad, you have to pay for that, can't have everything at once.
PianoMan
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Re: Why do Raveners have to give up their devourer to upgrade?

Postby PianoMan » Thu 03 Jan, 2019 10:31 pm

Sex - Murder - Art wrote:Because that would make them turn into a power melee jump squads with really really good ranged weapon option.

If you want them to use them as a melee squad, you have to pay for that, can't have everything at once.

really really really really really really really really good
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Torpid
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Re: Why do Raveners have to give up their devourer to upgrade?

Postby Torpid » Fri 04 Jan, 2019 3:42 am

They're a great melee unit with the upgrade when you consider that they can have TGs/genes/rippers/horms/warriors supporting them, you got to take it in the context of the race.

And of course the upgrade allows them to be affected by melee synapse.

As far as I'm aware the high level consensus is that melee ravs are good, ranged ravs are necessary in many MUs but not really pulling their weight especially as the game goes on.
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oLev
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Re: Why do Raveners have to give up their devourer to upgrade?

Postby oLev » Fri 04 Jan, 2019 10:18 am

I'd say that they are in fact the ones that support the rest of tyranids melee roster because they provide the only stun available to the faction and disruption on demand.
One of the best ways to support melee fight is a targeted stun and disrupt while the worst is simply more squads to throw into the mix because of the many wargears and globals that is designed to punish the melee flood approach.
Arguably melee raveners are on par in usefulness with AG warriors who provide a less targetable passive leap disrupt as well as passive melee skill and health increase.

So how to solve the problem of raveners losing their great ranged weapon for Enhanced Muscle Coil? The way I see it you can just get more.

You easily afford more raveners if you throw away the useless gaunts in T2 only keeping one terma around for crippling poison. They are such a burden on the tyranid economy that without them you can easily run 2 shooty 1 melee rav + venom and zoan or TG which will carry you to T3 with minimal bleed.

Raveners stay super useful and benefit a lot from veterancy and operating alone unlike gaunts which even if you get to vet4 are still just waiting to get oneshot as the tech level of the game increases.
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boss
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Re: Why do Raveners have to give up their devourer to upgrade?

Postby boss » Mon 07 Jan, 2019 2:01 am

I guess the reason you can't have both would be an upgrade and not a change in roles which is what enhanced muscle coil is atm idk is they are not good for it since no one ever got melee ravs before cos they were bad, since 2.6.1 they became least something you would try and use more and they have there place now maybe they need more looking into to be more viable but like I said no one ever got them before just went straight devourers got nothing to compare them to.
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