What are the downsides of being supressed in melee?

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Schepp himself
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What are the downsides of being supressed in melee?

Postby Schepp himself » Mon 30 Apr, 2018 12:24 pm

Hello fellow elitists.
I always wondered what the downsides are when a unit is supressed but also stuck in melee. As I got it, the cooldown of a melee weapon is 0 so no multiplier can increase it. And your speed is not of importance if you are in melee anyways. So, what is left? Am I overlooking something?

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Re: What are the downsides of being supressed in melee?

Postby TheGoldenChicken » Mon 30 Apr, 2018 12:43 pm

Schepp himself wrote:Hello fellow elitists.
I always wondered what the downsides are when a unit is supressed but also stuck in melee. As I got it, the cooldown of a melee weapon is 0 so no multiplier can increase it. And your speed is not of importance if you are in melee anyways. So, what is left? Am I overlooking something?

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I don't think that there's any direct downside, but units suppressed in melee seem to use less time hitting back and more time crawling around like morons. This is why many eldar players use banshee war shout when fighting ASM for example
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Re: What are the downsides of being supressed in melee?

Postby Swift » Mon 30 Apr, 2018 2:28 pm

TheGoldenChicken wrote:
Schepp himself wrote:Hello fellow elitists.
I always wondered what the downsides are when a unit is supressed but also stuck in melee. As I got it, the cooldown of a melee weapon is 0 so no multiplier can increase it. And your speed is not of importance if you are in melee anyways. So, what is left? Am I overlooking something?

Greets
Schepp himself


I don't think that there's any direct downside, but units suppressed in melee seem to use less time hitting back and more time crawling around like morons. This is why many eldar players use banshee war shout when fighting ASM for example

I always assumed it was just a case that they slowed down and thus couldn't pile into combat very effectively in order to strike.
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Re: What are the downsides of being supressed in melee?

Postby Torpid » Mon 30 Apr, 2018 3:11 pm

Yep, simply the slower movement speed means all models don't get into combat as fast, which can mean the initial models that do die quicker as all enemy models focus on them. Also, during the full mleee engagement with all models, specials will proc, when suppressed the models tha get knocked back from the specials will take longer to move back into the fight leaving the other models that didn't get knocked back stranded and liable to die.
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Re: What are the downsides of being supressed in melee?

Postby LOCALgHOST » Sun 06 May, 2018 2:56 pm

Suppression does received ranged damage increase?
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Re: What are the downsides of being supressed in melee?

Postby Dark Riku » Sun 06 May, 2018 2:57 pm

No.
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Re: What are the downsides of being supressed in melee?

Postby Schepp himself » Sun 06 May, 2018 4:34 pm

Torpid wrote:Yep, simply the slower movement speed means all models don't get into combat as fast, which can mean the initial models that do die quicker as all enemy models focus on them. Also, during the full mleee engagement with all models, specials will proc, when suppressed the models tha get knocked back from the specials will take longer to move back into the fight leaving the other models that didn't get knocked back stranded and liable to die.


Great to know. Animation-wise, suppressed models don't seem to be in melee yet even though the enemy, non-supressed models are hacking away. And, IIRC, models that move past model that are melee-attacking them have their melee skill reduced. Is the aforementioned situation (Raptors landing, suppressing, starting to slash on crawling enemies) the same as moving past Raptors?

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Re: What are the downsides of being supressed in melee?

Postby Black Relic » Tue 15 May, 2018 10:53 pm

If it helps, models that are moving also have a melee skill reduction. So units that are Knocked back and are moving slower do suffer a melee skill penalty.
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Re: What are the downsides of being supressed in melee?

Postby Swift » Wed 16 May, 2018 12:27 am

Black Relic wrote:If it helps, models that are moving also have a melee skill reduction. So units that are Knocked back and are moving slower do suffer a melee skill penalty.

Didn't realise that was even a thing. How much does it mitigate it by?
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Re: What are the downsides of being supressed in melee?

Postby Aetherion » Wed 16 May, 2018 1:46 am

Swift wrote:
Black Relic wrote:If it helps, models that are moving also have a melee skill reduction. So units that are knocked back and are moving slower do suffer a melee skill penalty.

Didn't realise that was even a thing. How much does it mitigate it by?


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=243&hilit=moving+melee+skill&start=60#p7362

They lose 2 MS while moving, which is a 2% increase in special chance, thus granting otherwise equal melee superiority units (70 MS) a 7% knockback chance, as compared to their usual 5%, meaning there is a 40% increase in the average number of specials you cause

However "this -2 penalty does not apply to models that are in "Charging" mode (a movement state when a model is moving toward an enemy to engage in melee)" (from codex). I also believe suppressed units cannot charge, though they definitely can leap so im not too sure about that. However, there is definitely a charge cooldown period so if units are knocked down just as they are charging and then suppressed, they are basically fucked.
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Re: What are the downsides of being supressed in melee?

Postby Swift » Wed 16 May, 2018 2:02 pm

Aetherion wrote:
Swift wrote:
Black Relic wrote:If it helps, models that are moving also have a melee skill reduction. So units that are knocked back and are moving slower do suffer a melee skill penalty.

Didn't realise that was even a thing. How much does it mitigate it by?


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=243&hilit=moving+melee+skill&start=60#p7362

They lose 2 MS while moving, which is a 2% increase in special chance, thus granting otherwise equal melee superiority units (70 MS) a 7% knockback chance, as compared to their usual 5%, meaning there is a 40% increase in the average number of specials you cause

However "this -2 penalty does not apply to models that are in "Charging" mode (a movement state when a model is moving toward an enemy to engage in melee)" (from codex). I also believe suppressed units cannot charge, though they definitely can leap so im not too sure about that. However, there is definitely a charge cooldown period so if units are knocked down just as they are charging and then suppressed, they are basically fucked.

Thanks for that, never even realised this was a thing, definitely worth remembering.
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Re: What are the downsides of being supressed in melee?

Postby Thibix Magnus » Wed 16 May, 2018 2:24 pm

Swift wrote:
Aetherion wrote:
Swift wrote:Didn't realise that was even a thing. How much does it mitigate it by?


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=243&hilit=moving+melee+skill&start=60#p7362

They lose 2 MS while moving, which is a 2% increase in special chance, thus granting otherwise equal melee superiority units (70 MS) a 7% knockback chance, as compared to their usual 5%, meaning there is a 40% increase in the average number of specials you cause

However "this -2 penalty does not apply to models that are in "Charging" mode (a movement state when a model is moving toward an enemy to engage in melee)" (from codex). I also believe suppressed units cannot charge, though they definitely can leap so im not too sure about that. However, there is definitely a charge cooldown period so if units are knocked down just as they are charging and then suppressed, they are basically fucked.

Thanks for that, never even realised this was a thing, definitely worth remembering.


yeah I think I use banshee warcry more often in melee engagements than to catch kiters :s

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