2.7 GK

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
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Broodwich
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2.7 GK

Postby Broodwich » Sat 13 May, 2017 7:00 am

Greetings

Just wanted to say after playing some gk games, i am actually liking the changes, save one: strike squad melee

I do not understand the thought process of "if this is so middling a unit, let's make a melee variant and then not give it anything better than it currently is."

There is no bonus to it that you did not get in the previous patch... where they were meh in melee. These guys need some love. I think a more interesting buff than the standard regen/hp/dmg buffs would be more MS or a KB on melee charge. Thoughts?
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Oddnerd
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Re: 2.7 GK

Postby Oddnerd » Sat 13 May, 2017 4:20 pm

I agree - the melee variant of SS doesn't seem like it is going to scale as well as the ranged variant, which now gets a whopping 40% damage buff and the anti-all psycannon.

I liked that you could purchase both upgrades because it made SS really versatile, being both a competent ranged unit and able to control/engage lesser melee units.
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Deuce Bigalow
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Re: 2.7 GK

Postby Deuce Bigalow » Tue 30 May, 2017 2:21 am

Yeah so SS are now too strong. The slow is too much.
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Rostam
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Re: 2.7 GK

Postby Rostam » Tue 30 May, 2017 6:47 am

their range upgrade also gives them 25% damage buff which makes them even better than tacs which is a bit high
Last edited by Rostam on Wed 12 Jul, 2017 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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evilmario5
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Re: 2.7 GK

Postby evilmario5 » Tue 30 May, 2017 6:48 am

Strike squad:
Patch 2.6.0
-default range damage was decreased from 28 to 21
-default melee damage was increased from 30 to 35
-Strikes no longer have Purification ability by default.

Nemesis Focus
-Strikes now have Nemesis Focus upgrade available in T1 for 60/15.
Increases melee damage and health by 15%,
melee skill by 10 and unlocks Purification ability.

Halberd Melee Special attack:
- Angle reduced from 0>0 to -70>70. (from 360 angle to 140 angle)
- Damage increased from 15 to 32

2.6.0 Summary:
defalt range damage decrease
defalt melee damage increase
increase to Special attack damage/reduction of special attack angle

Patch 2.6.1

-Strike Squad no longer starts with a melee special attack by default.
-Nemesis Force upgrade now grants the squad a melee special attack
in addition to its other effects.

-Melee special attack damage decreased from 32 to 27.

2.6.1 Summary:
Special attack locked behind Nemesis Focus
Special Attack damage decreased

Patch 2.7.0
(Base changes)
-Storm Bolter damage per hit reduced from 21 to 18.(23.4 Dph with Psybolt and no Psycannon)
-Psycannon damage per hit reduced from 23 to 20.
-Justicar price reduced from 75/25 to 75/20.


(melee Variant)
-Nemesis Force now allows the Strike Squad (and Justicar)
to melee charge for a range of 12, 6 second cooldown and +3 speed.(+3 speed 12 range charge buff for melee)
-Nemesis Force is now required to be present for the Justicar to use Energy Burst.(justicar in ranged Variant does not have Energy Burst)
-Energy Burst cooldown reduced from 80 seconds to 50 seconds.(only change <- Energy Burst has nothing differnt changed to it
it just being used more due to the 2 Variants now)

2.7.0 Summary:
Default ranged damage decreased
and Default psycannon damaged Decreased
Melee Charge buff
Energy Burst is locked behind both Nemesis Focus and Justicar
Energy Burst cool down reduced( small buff)


Deuce Bigalow really.... no they arn't to strong, and the Energy Burst(slow) is only being used more often now.
yes I play gk/om a bit no hate plz
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Rostam
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Re: 2.7 GK

Postby Rostam » Tue 30 May, 2017 7:14 am

to be honest GK are a bit of a broken race and many of their units dont need that much skill to play with (I like them as a race though)
the best form GK had was in 2.3 when interceptors were T1 no operatives existed
I would rather give them a predator tank in T3 instead of interceptors for balance reasons,interceptors are needed T1

Also Strike squad damage has been decreased but 40% damage buff with their cheep up is too much add the slow down to it as well
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evilmario5
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Re: 2.7 GK

Postby evilmario5 » Tue 30 May, 2017 8:05 am

Rostam313 wrote:to be honest GK are a bit of a broken race and many of their units dont need that much skill to play with (I like them as a race though)
the best form GK had was in 2.3 when interceptors were T1 no operatives existed
I would rather give them a predator tank in T3 instead of interceptors for balance reasons,interceptors are needed T1

Also Strike squad damage has been decreased but 40% damage buff with their cheep up is too much add the slow down to it as well



-sadly i started playing with the elite mod from patch 2.4.2 where Gk were truly OP so i have not seen what they were like before.

-bringing Interceptors to t1 again gives them tier 1.5 melee jump squad(that need to be redone stat and some ability wise)
and a GK Predator for tier 3 could work the Predator would have to sit between lsm/csm predators and the looted tank at like 450/100(600hp)
extra armor upgrade. (no lascannon )

- all for removing the:Slow strength increased from 10% to 25%. (this is a flat amount, further applications only reset the duration time) from Psybolt Ammo
yes I play gk/om a bit no hate plz
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boss
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Re: 2.7 GK

Postby boss » Tue 30 May, 2017 12:32 pm

Well I would like interceptors be put back into it they were fine and to justly remove them to put in Operatives were a stupid mistake that brought nothing but problems
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Rostam
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Re: 2.7 GK

Postby Rostam » Tue 30 May, 2017 6:48 pm

yea basically it would be good if they remove operatives . bring interceptors T1 . make a predetor like SM pred for T3
T2 GK is ok-ish
I know the whole idea of GK is that they would defer from SM but some changes absouloutly make no sense so better to have some similarities to SM/Chaos in some ways
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Re: 2.7 GK

Postby Element » Wed 31 May, 2017 4:13 pm

to be honest GK are a bit of a broken race and many of their units dont need that much skill to play with (I like them as a race though)
the best form GK had was in 2.3 when interceptors were T1 no operatives existed
I would rather give them a predator tank in T3 instead of interceptors for balance reasons,interceptors are needed T1

Also Strike squad damage has been decreased but 40% damage buff with their cheep up is too much add the slow down to it as well


I've been refraiming
from saying anything regarding the balance so as not to start saying so much regarding what may need to happen but I'll have to say something now.

We've been through T1 Gk Interceptors they aren't right to be placed in this tier given ASM, Storm boys, & Raptors all wreck them heavily given they do not start the game with their shunt as this makes them too capable at the start with their insta- Teleport Knockback> Inititiative Strike Finisher plays. In addition they are a unit that becomes available alongside operatives which would create a role-play conflict given they are similiar units but perform thein roles in a slightly different mannerism. In addition They come out before purifiers which is problematic as the choice of Interceptors and purifiers is the key notion of the game and hence will never be a same fielded team and is of the problem now with T3 Interceptors coming into play so late when it would better suit them to help out in T2 when ranged forces, artillery, vehicles, sub- commanders and similiarily proficcient classed units become become more so prevalent in the game. Purifiers don't look to counter a zoanthrope, Interceptors do. Purifiers don't look to counter a Trukk, Interceptors do. Purifies don't look to counter Warpspiders, Interceptors do. Anything with ranged and enhanced Mobility will kite purifiers for days. Purifiers like to come upon melee oriented forces if they can with support of other units so a soft,moderate, hard--> (anything not melee oriented) balance counter units such A.S.M., perhaps your occasional Raptor unit, bloodletters, genestealers, and Tyrant guard respectively (Only when properly supported). They are 2 units offering specialising towards the battle stance focus of the ensuing faction.

The Brotherhood Captain. 1 commander cannot handle every situation. People keep not recalling that G.K. only have 1 main commander when really they should have 3 at least 2 though 3 will be needed, right now given the Vindicare Assassin should not be in T2 when you have a razorback with last not to mention another subcommander already in the game whom does very well for what he is supposed to do in regards to acting as an augmentational field play skirmishes modifier. The Vindicare Assassin has the synergy of an actual commander without the rest of the wargear options. The Brotherhood Captain is more of a support commander, > Tank. The Vindicare Assassin can be made into more of a Offensive Commander and if there were ever an introduction of A Brotherhood Champion in Terminator if not Artificer Armor dependent on the change up roles suited to the needed playstyle of the Brotherhood Captain then you would have a Defensive Commander. No commander can suit all the roles needed to play everything.

The Brotherhood Captain right now is being made into everything. A Tank, Support, has crowd control suited for another type of commander. Enfeeble while a good ability has a conflict of interest with his his terminator variented commander armor given every moment he's out of battle you're doing less. He's not a Channeling warlock. A Brotherhood Champion would be more so suited towards the role if he was in commander power armor given less Health commanders> Unit> Augmentation is better. as they may not look to be in such a skirmish anyways. but when you have one of the highest health pool units in the game outside the skirmish Channeling. while everyone else is in melee something is not right. Finally he has too much wargear all suited towards health and energy reliant upon shields. This would be somewhat o.km if he weren't having to do everything else as well.

The rhino as it now in addition should not have both a last an non and heavybolter option. ThE option is really just quite awkward given the factions play parameters and the A..V. given by the Purgation squad which is probably in the best state it has ever been since the beginning of their introduction. The rhino will have a heavy bolter if not a Psycannon (no options) rather it just comes as is and no Las cannon option because their should not be a A.V. tank in T2 when no other Faction has one. A heavy mounted Psycannon with soft A.V. is more in line with G.K. than a heavy bolter and at least would make some sense aND may need to be cost adjusted so as to be slightly different from the Space Marine rhino giving all the transport vehicles their own little unique profile.

T3 will not be properly balanced until you introduce a Nemesis Dread Knight. It's just the truth. You have to some kind of Armored A.V. to combat other A.V. ranged units, not infantry unit combating armored vehicles As every Faction has one not mention the difference in armored profile role play Mechanics introduced when such a unit comes out into the game given their is nothing like it when it is played. A predator tank doesn't exist in the G.K. line up so you can't even place one there.

Therefore to balance the faction there is the need for some change ups, additions, & introductions. but as to when such will happen is the question.
Last edited by Element on Thu 01 Jun, 2017 6:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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boss
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Re: 2.7 GK

Postby boss » Wed 31 May, 2017 4:34 pm

I be all for removing operatives all these problems came when operatives were put in to replace interceptors which their job was to counter setup teams and mass range units their not to fight other jump troops the only way you get om to be fair and not poorly designed race is when their get a jump unit back in t1 and work from their hence back to 2.3 cos atm I don't think you even get om fair with out making something overpower or undeforming in some ways since operatives were add
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Re: 2.7 GK

Postby Element » Wed 31 May, 2017 4:49 pm

I be all for removing operatives all these problems came when operatives were put in to replace interceptors which their job was to counter setup teams and mass range units their not to fight other jump troops the only way you get om to be fair and not poorly designed race is when their get a jump unit back in t1 and work from their hence back to 2.3 cos atm I don't think you even get om fair with out making something overpower or undeforming in some ways since operatives were add


I would like to see T2 Interceptors before making such a choice but I can't say operatives are the perfect unit either. They just lack one main aspect. C.C.Knockback Initiation Strike Qualities. It's not necessarily the need to be a jump unit.

A.S.M.> Jump
Catachans> Ol- Reliable
Rangers> Kinetic Pulse
etc.
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Re: 2.7 GK

Postby boss » Thu 01 Jun, 2017 11:43 am

All most in elite has hard counters and soft counters to setup teams in t1

Ig spotters plus like Ol- Reliable and smoke heros and stuff

Sm asm then scouts nade and snipers

chaos raptors then nade tics and noise marines

Ork bleed shit boy I mean storm boys plus shoot boys can just out shoot them so yea.

nids ravs plus the bs warriors can deal with them to

eldar well ranges were to deal set up team but their shit so :( they don't get anything

om nade ist and operatives are soft counter at best so only om and eldar don't have hard counters
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Re: 2.7 GK

Postby Ace of Swords » Thu 01 Jun, 2017 5:14 pm

The maelstorm w/e thing is call was made t1 as a designed counter for suppression, now saying it works well, but that was the purpose behind the change from t2 with ok damage to t1 with basically no damage.
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boss
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Re: 2.7 GK

Postby boss » Thu 01 Jun, 2017 6:30 pm

Ace of Swords wrote:The maelstorm w/e thing is call was made t1 as a designed counter for suppression, now saying it works well, but that was the purpose behind the change from t2 with ok damage to t1 with basically no damage.



You mean the nemesis vortex thing that a joke now anyways instead of giving the race the setup team counter let try and turn the hero into one..........
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Element
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Re: 2.7 GK

Postby Element » Thu 01 Jun, 2017 6:54 pm

Nemesis All most in elite has hard counters and soft counters to setup teams in t1

Ig spotters plus like Ol- Reliable and smoke heros and stuff

Sm asm then scouts nade and snipers

chaos raptors then nade tics and noise marines

Ork bleed shit boy I mean storm boys plus shoot boys can just out shoot them so yea.

nids ravs plus the bs warriors can deal with them to

eldar well ranges were to deal set up team but their shit so :( they don't get anything

om nade ist and operatives are soft counter at best so only om and eldar don't have hard counters


Make sure to recall, Eldar have nades as well (the real grenades not the little/no effect stun block inquisitorial stormtrooper grenades only usable once having purchased the sergeant and really only as a means to retreat safely). They also have more commanders with one of which being a direct counter just via his unique means of mobility in addition to plenty of creative flanking opportunities that can be made usually not to mention an actual set-up team to balance out another set-up team. so while they don't have necessarily " quote" "quote" hard counters. They certainly have the tools given their naturally optimal faction strengths notbaly mobility create the most ideal situations for your units to counter.

O.M. doesn't have the mobility, and The Special Inquisitorial Black operatives don't have the sufficient "Impact Play Delivery " to counter. Stealth is fine as a means of delivery however stealth usually is only as strong as that which comes along with it. Usually a long ranged sniper shot, if not some kind of grenade, power/heavy melee finishers. in which case black operatives only have their shotgun burst to rely upon and even then, infiltration is only as good as your ability to make way around spotters. The mechanics behind the operative play is the problem. Stealth with such a fragile unit to counter a set-up team lacks the impact. You wouldn't counter a set-up team with infiltrated shotgun scouts. You would create either the proper angle utilizing snipers if not have the means to truly force them off hence a grenade.

The question really is what to give the operatives to make them worthwhile to counter a set-up team in T1. without copying pasting other faction like mechanisms of functional impact.

Also nemesis vortex was quite a fine upgrade when it was used properly in T2. Now given the upgrade is in T1, There is just very little impact made by the ability not to mention the upgrade is not an aspect you are looking to use as was the case in the beginning of T2 skirmishes given, the damage was more than sufficient to act as a line breaker when it became available as it actually had a punch when it exploded.

However I do agree this shouldn't be "The" designed set-up counter. at least not what is meant for being used with a support tank commander.
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Re: 2.7 GK

Postby boss » Thu 01 Jun, 2017 7:52 pm

Well I said for a while I wish ist had real nades but nothing was wrong with Interceptor being t1 their lead the charge, dealt with setup team and can fight melee well had raptor dps with asm heath if im wrong? and scale well plus with bc support they can win games for you, they gave a punch for gk and now since they lost them they tried to fill other unit to do this operatives which we saw what happen in 2.4 just remove them or move them to t2 or t3 but like I said interceptor need to be put back in to solve a lot of these issues for gk than make we can finely make them fun to play vs or do we just have to ban them all the time?

Also ranges are to deal with setup team their damage is shit and cant even kill tics easy let alone force you to move make them 30 power and least give them scout sniper damage.
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Rostam
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Re: 2.7 GK

Postby Rostam » Wed 12 Jul, 2017 11:55 pm

Purification global and purification ability is very good and interesting mechanic

For 3v3,2v2 (especially 2v2 since i did test them on 2v2s a lot recently)
Blessed Agis Armor is really good . especially with SS and sword buff (not to mention the buffs sword gives strike squad in range)
Blessed Agis + Sword + unending purg + 2x Strike Squad (with purification) + Mind Blades,Purification Globals =
u got a BC that has a shield that can be charged in a flash .

I really like that combo,the thing that is broke here though is the red slow effect of the SS which was supposed to be given when u had justicar
i think IST sarge would be good as a detector if u increase the cost of the sarg a little bit . and operatives arent that useful in team games atm
also about interceptors. u can use two of them with purification global so they can jump more and throw their melta . damn good in team games


For 1v1 (I aint much of a 1v1 player and have done only a few 1s with gk, u better ask torpid and boss)
but wat i know is that operatives are better in 1v1s (still i think BC sword+agis or nade launchers are better to counter SUT) . u have the melta as a potential av counter . rhino is kind of an auto purchase since both mobility and damage (AV or anti infantry) is needed . purgation seems like a good purchase vs tanky heroes and as a potential AV as well
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