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Re: Patch 2.9.5 Released!

Posted: Thu 15 Oct, 2020 6:07 pm
by Lag
I have over 2500 hours in this game. During the past year I've regularly seen good players lose Tac squads to the first Horma engagement. Not even full health Sluggas who get a knockdown do this. Their chase potential is insane, they spread out far so that they take way less damage than intended, their models are tiny so they all get to deal damage at the same time etc. It's not how it's down on paper but how it actually plays out in the game. If you don't see how broken they were before this is I can't help you.

Re: Patch 2.9.5 Released!

Posted: Thu 15 Oct, 2020 6:52 pm
by PianoMan
Lag wrote:I have over 2500 hours in this game. During the past year I've regularly seen good players lose Tac squads to the first Horma engagement. Not even full health Sluggas who get a knockdown do this. Their chase potential is insane, they spread out far so that they take way less damage than intended, their models are tiny so they all get to deal damage at the same time etc. It's not how it's down on paper but how it actually plays out in the game. If you don't see how broken they were before this is I can't help you.

if you have 2500 hours and still play like you do then you cannot judge who's good and who's bad

Re: Patch 2.9.5 Released!

Posted: Thu 15 Oct, 2020 7:01 pm
by Lag
While I played with the big boys actively I was quite good. Right now it's impossible to get a team together as this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AB1qlDgzGM so I just turn on the game and join the first lobby I get into, and rather than play the same shit I played over and over again for a million times because it works I prefer to try out all kinds of different strats, which sometimes work and sometimes down but I definitively don't practice my micro and high-end game.
What I am trying to say is that yes, I'm nearly as good as I used to be when I was playing daily with Nurland, Adila, Caeltos and the rest of the boys, but that doesn't mean that I can't assess the obvious fact that the game works in a certain way.
I am pretty sure that Hormas were not designed to wipe a half-health Tac squad in retreat on the first engagement. I suggested removing the leap because that removes the damage-taken-reducing spread. This way they actually bleed models when focused during their approach as every other melee squad in t1 should (vanilla or not) before they reach their target and are less insanely dangerous once they get in range. I'm happy that at least some solution was applied even though I'd prefer my own.

Re: Patch 2.9.5 Released!

Posted: Thu 15 Oct, 2020 9:59 pm
by Shroom
Lag wrote: Hormas

Best fucking change of the patch, hands down.


well its a good thing almost no one agrees with that sentiment and the change is being reverted in the next hotfix

Re: Patch 2.9.5 Released!

Posted: Fri 16 Oct, 2020 12:31 am
by Swift
Piano you're an absolute prune

Re: Patch 2.9.5 Released!

Posted: Fri 16 Oct, 2020 4:11 pm
by LOCALgHOST
HORMAS ARE FINE NOW

stop it. they stopped being absolute dominating in T1. leave it be.

Re: Patch 2.9.5 Released!

Posted: Sat 17 Oct, 2020 3:57 pm
by ClosetedLoyalist
Anyone know the precise file name like eg (SM_DarkAngels_DLC) scheme for Aramus and Diomedes?

Re: Patch 2.9.5 Released!

Posted: Sat 17 Oct, 2020 11:33 pm
by egewithin
I just want to thank you for changing Guardian models back to normal. They always bothered me for a long time but didn't want to complain because it's free new models.

I don't like the Sentinal detection upgrade. In IG meta, they need to get an additional unit to detect stuff, rather than getting a squad leader as an upgrade. This is the case for last 9 years (holy shit O . O ) and it should stay that way. Not to mention it's very unnecessery.

It's nice to see that Kasrikin are an elite squad and has the power they deserve. I hope this never changes.

I don't know about Horma changes, haven't played the game for a long time. But genestealers are already deadly enough by them selfs. People don't buy them because they bleed a lot and they ruin economy of the player. If they need a change, thats either their cost / upkeep / reinforcement / etc or their health and damage resistance. It's a double edges sword at this point. Buff their health they are OP, buff their damage they are still useless. Perhaps we should start talking about a Brood Lord upgrade for Genestealers to have a new dimention.

Re: Patch 2.9.5 Released!

Posted: Sun 18 Oct, 2020 10:36 am
by Torpid
egewithin wrote:I just want to thank you for changing Guardian models back to normal. They always bothered me for a long time but didn't want to complain because it's free new models.

I don't like the Sentinal detection upgrade. In IG meta, they need to get an additional unit to detect stuff, rather than getting a squad leader as an upgrade. This is the case for last 9 years (holy shit O . O ) and it should stay that way. Not to mention it's very unnecessery.

It's nice to see that Kasrikin are an elite squad and has the power they deserve. I hope this never changes.

I don't know about Horma changes, haven't played the game for a long time. But genestealers are already deadly enough by them selfs. People don't buy them because they bleed a lot and they ruin economy of the player. If they need a change, thats either their cost / upkeep / reinforcement / etc or their health and damage resistance. It's a double edges sword at this point. Buff their health they are OP, buff their damage they are still useless. Perhaps we should start talking about a Brood Lord upgrade for Genestealers to have a new dimention.


Actually sentinel has detected for free by default for years albeit at a lower radius than typical detectors but still a substantial one - 20.

Re: Patch 2.9.5 Released!

Posted: Sun 18 Oct, 2020 11:04 am
by Shroom
egewithin wrote:I don't know about Horma changes, haven't played the game for a long time. But genestealers are already deadly enough by them selfs. People don't buy them because they bleed a lot and they ruin economy of the player. If they need a change, thats either their cost / upkeep / reinforcement / etc or their health and damage resistance. It's a double edges sword at this point. Buff their health they are OP, buff their damage they are still useless. Perhaps we should start talking about a Brood Lord upgrade for Genestealers to have a new dimention.

genes were fine the previous patch, this patch nerfed them, hotfix will needlessly buff them. a squad leader is pretty high on the list of things they dont need

Re: Patch 2.9.5 Released!

Posted: Sun 18 Oct, 2020 8:56 pm
by ChikenVerbs
Apologies, if the person who has made the changes is in this thread...or that my maths is wonky, but addressing Hormagaunts.

Hormagaunt Brood:
Red yield reduced from 5 to 4.
Speed reduced from 6.5 to 5.5.
Claws damage per second increased from 18 to 20.
Adrenal Glands damage bonus reduced from 22% to 10%.
Adrenal Glands now increases speed by 1 in addition to its normal effects.


Now:
20dps (Base damage +10% 2dps)
Adrenal damage +10% ( 2dps)
Total damage with adrenal = 22dps

Before:
18dps
Adrenal damage +22% ( 3.96dps)
Total damage with adrenal = 21.96dps

So there is no nerf, there is net and gross increase in damage.

Base Hormas will do more damage per hit and with DPS and opponents will get less red per kill...so a further advantage to the Nid player?

-edit-
oh, its the speed without adrenal that's an issue?

Re: Patch 2.9.5 Released!

Posted: Sun 18 Oct, 2020 9:32 pm
by LOCALgHOST
speed

Re: Patch 2.9.5 Released!

Posted: Mon 19 Oct, 2020 12:43 am
by Torpid
ChikenVerbs wrote:Apologies, if the person who has made the changes is in this thread...or that my maths is wonky, but addressing Hormagaunts.

Hormagaunt Brood:
Red yield reduced from 5 to 4.
Speed reduced from 6.5 to 5.5.
Claws damage per second increased from 18 to 20.
Adrenal Glands damage bonus reduced from 22% to 10%.
Adrenal Glands now increases speed by 1 in addition to its normal effects.


Now:
20dps (Base damage +10% 2dps)
Adrenal damage +10% ( 2dps)
Total damage with adrenal = 22dps

Before:
18dps
Adrenal damage +22% ( 3.96dps)
Total damage with adrenal = 21.96dps

So there is no nerf, there is net and gross increase in damage.

Base Hormas will do more damage per hit and with DPS and opponents will get less red per kill...so a further advantage to the Nid player?

-edit-
oh, its the speed without adrenal that's an issue?


Speed is invaluable to tyranids. It is their defining trait as the fastest race and synergises with their weaker individual, but more numerous squads.

It is a collossal nerf to the point of nerfing multi-horm builds out of existence from good balance. The minor damage changes in the early game don't matter at all - horms lose to dedicated melee anyway, even with the better default damage before. So you send them vs ranged troops who even with nerfed damage they mince in melee but they can't ever catch them with reduced speed making them mostly useless.