General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Elite (and related) releases.
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Red Beard B|
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Re: General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Postby Red Beard B| » Sat 05 May, 2018 3:54 pm

If it's by votes I'd go for Torpid/Adila.
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Re: General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Postby HUNTER » Sat 05 May, 2018 4:02 pm

Zevargel wrote:resalt.


boss wrote:I only unfriend litte retards like you hunter ;)

That didn't take long. I thought it had been a while since the last unfriending.
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Ayy Eye
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Re: General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Postby Ayy Eye » Sat 05 May, 2018 4:14 pm

Zevargel wrote:The idea to make one or several person to lead balance will fail again like it was when Torp try hard to make it good. You all have to understand we cannot balance the game with 6 faction (GK not counted), simple it's imposible. Still the best idea it's group chat in discord with most expiriensed players of dow 2. Only constructive discution of expirienced players can bring a posetive result.



this is pretty solid idea in theory tbh, but how do you stop getting like 5 sm mains and 1 eldar main on your team when you have a reasonably small community?

the answer: through jihad
I'm a girrrrlllll gamer.
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Swift
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Re: General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Postby Swift » Sat 05 May, 2018 5:46 pm

Ayy Eye wrote:the answer: through jihad

Hmmmmmmmm.................
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Torpid
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Re: General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Postby Torpid » Sun 06 May, 2018 1:23 am

A) Nobody said anything about votes.

B) If it was to do with votes it would epically fail because that completely defeats the point of lead balance design.

C) It may be wise to check who wants to do the job before suggesting it. I quit. I didn't get overthrown by magical powers. I don't want to do it. There's no reward, no respect, no constructive debate, everything just goes around in circles and everyone disagrees with each other without any cohesion whilst nobody wants to have constructive debate, only trolling and nobody wants to help do beta testing/bug testing.

So why bother?
Lets make Ordo Malleus great again!
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Re: General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Postby Vindicarex » Sun 06 May, 2018 6:25 am

boss wrote:I think he was joking least I hope since he don't even play for weeks on end and only came back 2 days ago .............

Anyways I think I should be the lead balance designer, I play all races to a high level in all game modes least the ones that are played, good understanding of all races and yea not much else to say


Ya more or less ;)

I would need to play more consistently before I can really comment more intelligently on fine turning balance - but I do enjoy a good dow2 balance discussion so maybe I can be inaugurated sometime the summer ;)
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Re: General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Postby Vindicarex » Sun 06 May, 2018 6:26 am

Atlas wrote:
Myrdal wrote:
Vindicarex wrote:No, make ME head balance!

Done. Congratulations


Wait, did you meant that seriously?


The fact that you has to post this means I accomplished what I set out to do.
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Adeptus Noobus
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Re: General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Postby Adeptus Noobus » Sun 06 May, 2018 12:53 pm

Torpid, the issue with your time as Lead Designer was precisely that discussions and input were not welcome but intrusions into your vision for Elite. Several changes you proposed were so heavily contested and have skewed the meta in clear favor for some races. You were told this. By a myriad of people. You ignored them all. Now we are left with Ranger-sight Leman Russes, cheap af Baneblades, TFC (which was already reverted somewhat) and Sternguard AV (which was also luckily hotfixed). Let’s not even talk about ranged Termis hp regen.
You called everybody who brought these issues before you ignorant and visionless („we need to reshape the meta....stale meta is not good...etc“).

Take at least some of the responsibility, will you? 8-)
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Torpid
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Re: General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Postby Torpid » Sun 06 May, 2018 5:00 pm

Adeptus Noobus wrote:Torpid, the issue with your time as Lead Designer was precisely that discussions and input were not welcome but intrusions into your vision for Elite. Several changes you proposed were so heavily contested and have skewed the meta in clear favor for some races. You were told this. By a myriad of people. You ignored them all. Now we are left with Ranger-sight Leman Russes, cheap af Baneblades, TFC (which was already reverted somewhat) and Sternguard AV (which was also luckily hotfixed). Let’s not even talk about ranged Termis hp regen.
You called everybody who brought these issues before you ignorant and visionless („we need to reshape the meta....stale meta is not good...etc“).

Take at least some of the responsibility, will you? 8-)


Yeah, which I stand by and I think your balance opinions are dumb, like you think mine are, what's your point?

You think that's going to change when someone else takes over?

I will reiterate there was a silent majority that were quite happy with patches but focus was being given to a very vocal minority who don't really know what they are doing and who have no sense of foresight or inter-cohesiveness.

TFC is currently fine and next patch will be once again UP, as it was before. Ranger sight leman russes were not a change made by me and have existed for as long as I can remember in elite. Sternguard AV is currently fine.

Initial implementations of the design idea for sternguard AV/TFC cost/terminator regen could have been done better if I wasn't the only person willing to test out such units in-game in a beta patch before-hand.

I think terminator regen is mostly fine though too. Would only need a minor tweak if even that.
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Re: General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Postby Cyris » Sun 06 May, 2018 8:27 pm

I would like to be Lead Designer. Here is my resume / cover letter.

I have more then a dozen years of experience working professionally as a video game designer on MMO's, MOBA's, strategy games and recently mobile games. Separating my opinion as a player and that of a designer was a skill I learned by necessity almost 10 years ago. I believe my role is to collect perspectives and try to find the best way to thread between them all. Also by necessity, I have learned that there are no such things as truly balanced asymmetrical games (like this one), that players who post are never happy ones, that hating on designers is how players express love for a game (PvDev is the endgame of an MMO we "joked") and regular updates are the best cure to balance woes.

As Lead Designer I will NOT focus on bringing my vision of the game, but on doing my best to create a cohesive vision from the feedback of the community. My number one goal will be on creating, presenting and delivering clear change-lists to the community and the implementers (well, just Alas I guess). I will attempt to achieve this with a mi of transparency, iteration, predictability and finality.

Thankyou.
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Rostam
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Re: General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Postby Rostam » Sun 06 May, 2018 8:43 pm

nice! Thumbs up for that
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Re: General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Postby Ayy Eye » Sun 06 May, 2018 9:12 pm

As head balance i will rename the mod "elite complaint mod"
I'm a girrrrlllll gamer.
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Schepp himself
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Re: General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Postby Schepp himself » Sun 06 May, 2018 9:12 pm

Am I the only one who thinks this game is pretty decently balanced?

Greets
Schepp himself
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Re: General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Postby TharxGamma » Sun 06 May, 2018 9:17 pm

Schepp himself wrote:Am I the only one who thinks this game is pretty decently balanced?

Greets
Schepp himself


I agree brother!

Also Cyris what games you worked on?
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Re: General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Postby Myrdal » Sun 06 May, 2018 9:48 pm

Zevargel wrote:The idea to make one or several person to lead balance will fail again like it was when Torp try hard to make it good. You all have to understand we cannot balance the game with 6 faction (GK not counted), simple it's imposible.

Yes, we cannot balance the game but it's due to lack of data before anything else. Whether 2 or 6 races, the parameter space far exceeds anything we could handle. So obviously we don't expect the person in charge to fix it. If he can manage a "good enough" competetive state while keeping the overall interest up then that's not at all failing. Atlas and Torpid did a hell of a job these last patches if you ask me. They added some much needed transparency to the patch process as well. I hope they stay but if not then boss and cyris perhaps? Oh and vindicarex goes without saying.

@Atlas, my state when writing this: mostly serious
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Cyris
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Re: General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Postby Cyris » Sun 06 May, 2018 10:12 pm

Per my comments on keeping my designer self and player self separate, I will not be sharing what game company I work at ;) (though it will be pretty easy to figure out if you want to)

I agree, the game is mostly balanced. My gut would be to spruce up under-used units and wargears, apply small nerfs or berfs (buff+nerf) to ubiquitous units (Falcon, I'm coming for you) and maybe fill up some holes in specific matchups (Sorc vs tanky heroes). Basically, shake vary the meta, don't try to fix the game from the ground up.

And +1 to all Myrdal said, the variety in this game (18 commanders) vs the small player base (not to mention the 1v1 / 3v3 divide) makes true balance an exercise in futility, and far too subjective. Keeping the game fresh, fun and varied are more important then "balance" imo.
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Re: General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Postby Wanderer » Sun 06 May, 2018 10:50 pm

First changes should be done to IG.

Adding energy bar for spotters so they won't spam their abilities anymore;
Remove sight from improvised explosives;
Increase reinforce time of guardsmen squads from 2 to 5 secs so they won't be invincible anymore and ig player would micro a lil bit instead of running in blob with chimera.

As for "ig is balanced argument" let torpid ("great ig player, completely no ig abuser") speak:

Torpid DOW
6 месяцев назад
I'd say IG is one of the best counters to triple slugga warboss plays in the game. KN is pretty rough for IG though I must admit and their anti-garrison is lacking too so mekboy on this map would have been terrible. Warboss definitely the easiest for them.

Overall though in 1v1 atm I'd say IG and eldar are the strongest races. Although specifically warboss, lord commy and warlock are the best heroes.

Sar Dauk
6 месяцев назад
WTF IG strongest 1v1 race ? Are you kidding me ? and clearly it is so easy for IG to shut down 3 melee squad plus a hero.

Torpid DOW
6 месяцев назад
Hell yeah. Which is why you will see me playing a lot of Lord Commy in the league.


And guess what he picks lord commy again, coz you know ig is balanced and he just wanna show us his skills, not abuse broken faction and get easy wins. :lol:
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Re: General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Postby Ayy Eye » Sun 06 May, 2018 10:59 pm

Wanderer wrote:First changes should be done to IG.

Adding energy bar for spotters so they won't spam their abilities anymore;
Remove sight from improvised explosives;
Increase reinforce time of guardsmen squads from 2 to 5 secs so they won't be invincible anymore and ig player would micro a lil bit instead of running in blob with chimera.

As for "ig is balanced argument" let torpid ("great ig player, completely no ig abuser") speak:

Torpid DOW
6 месяцев назад
I'd say IG is one of the best counters to triple slugga warboss plays in the game. KN is pretty rough for IG though I must admit and their anti-garrison is lacking too so mekboy on this map would have been terrible. Warboss definitely the easiest for them.

Overall though in 1v1 atm I'd say IG and eldar are the strongest races. Although specifically warboss, lord commy and warlock are the best heroes.

Sar Dauk
6 месяцев назад
WTF IG strongest 1v1 race ? Are you kidding me ? and clearly it is so easy for IG to shut down 3 melee squad plus a hero.

Torpid DOW
6 месяцев назад
Hell yeah. Which is why you will see me playing a lot of Lord Commy in the league.


And guess what he picks lord commy again, coz you know ig is balanced and he just wanna show us his skills, not abuse broken faction and get easy wins. :lol:


i respect how much you're pushing this.
I'm a girrrrlllll gamer.
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Wanderer
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Re: General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Postby Wanderer » Sun 06 May, 2018 11:05 pm

I'm pushing nothing just stating facts and wanna make this mode balanced.
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Swift
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Re: General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Postby Swift » Sun 06 May, 2018 11:08 pm

Well I think we all know the next people in charge of balance will be a punching bag for everyone, so prepare to be disliked.

Wanderer wrote:Snip


I was hoping we'd reached the end of this in the last thread, don't hijack this one.
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Re: General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Postby TharxGamma » Sun 06 May, 2018 11:35 pm

Cyris wrote:Per my comments on keeping my designer self and player self separate, I will not be sharing what game company I work at ;) (though it will be pretty easy to figure out if you want to)



No worries buddy! Was just interested :) But I think it could be good to actually have someone experienced to have a shot
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Re: General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Postby Wanderer » Sun 06 May, 2018 11:55 pm

Swift wrote:I was hoping we'd reached the end of this in the last thread, don't hijack this one.



No we didn't achieved it, you didn't give any real arguments, just rant: "TORPID IS THE BEST PLAYER IN ELITE MOD, THAT'S WHY HE WINS WITH IG!!!!1111"
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Cyris
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Re: General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Postby Cyris » Mon 07 May, 2018 12:17 am

Swift wrote:Well I think we all know the next people in charge of balance will be a punching bag for everyone, so prepare to be disliked.


"players who post are never happy ones, that hating on designers is how players express love for a game (PvDev is the endgame of an MMO we "joked")"

Yep.
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Re: General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Postby boss » Mon 07 May, 2018 1:55 am

Cyris
Keeping the game fresh, fun and varied are more important then "balance" imo.

That's very dangerous balance is hard as it was let alone when gk were added but there is such a thing as common sense with changers elite mod not only made it so the more build orders were easy to do but made units more useful and viable while making sure their are counters to it which was the whole problem with retail.

Keeping elite fresh and varied is not wrong but changes need to have a reason not just cos you want to which was what torpid went and did purgation psycannons no need to go into that :twisted:

ps falcon is already getting nerfed thx to me so
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Re: General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Postby Oddnerd » Mon 07 May, 2018 2:22 am

Cyris with Boss/Freeman/Riku as high-level advisers would be a good team.
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Re: General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Postby LOCALgHOST » Mon 07 May, 2018 3:34 am

Oddnerd wrote:Cyris with Boss/Freeman/Riku as high-level advisers would be a good team.


where is the "plus vote" button? :)
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Re: General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Postby Paranoid Kamikaze » Mon 07 May, 2018 5:40 am

If you vote for me to be a balance designer I vow to buff SM and nerf Nids to the ground. And not just a little bit into the ground. So far under Raveners would be jealous.
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Re: General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Postby LOCALgHOST » Mon 07 May, 2018 5:54 am

Paranoid Kamikaze wrote:If you vote for me to be a balance designer I vow to buff SM and nerf Nids to the ground. And not just a little bit into the ground. So far under Raveners would be jealous.


More lulz to the god of lulz!
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Adeptus Noobus
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Re: General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Postby Adeptus Noobus » Mon 07 May, 2018 8:21 am

Torpid wrote:Yeah, which I stand by and I think your balance opinions are dumb, like you think mine are, what's your point?

I did not disagree with you on everything (documented if you want to refresh your memory). I mean we had loads of agreements as well which I also vehemently pressed for but you can choose to ignore that and claim I simply hate you and your guts.

Torpid wrote:Initial implementations of the design idea for sternguard AV/TFC cost/terminator regen could have been done better if I wasn't the only person willing to test out such units in-game in a beta patch before-hand.


That is just not true (documented as well). I remember specifically asking for the new patch releases to be playtested thoroughly and when there would be such a time........ and zzzip here is your new patch. No playtesting needed. It wasn't your fault but let us at least be 100% clear here how it really went down.

The way you are portraying things here is just a gross misrepresentation, Torpid. Nobody was shouting at you and nobody was in disarray. People were fed up with the intransparent way you approached things and put in unneccessary changes just because somebody wanted them to be put in. You are among the highest-skilled players and could have foreseen that some of these were just plain bad and that is what I had an issue with. You are just making it personal for no good reason (disagreement != personal issues).

Since TFC and Sternguard AV are the two examples that stand out the most, let's talk about them a bit more:

Before you changed them to appease the need for a retail on amphetamines TFC and Sternguard having bad AV capabilities the discussion was wether those two units needed (or should have) the proposed changes. Since you were the Lead Balance Designer the decision was ultimately yours and you went forth and changed them, happy with the result. Even after you saw how obviously OP that shit was, you refused to admit that they needed to be changed back because your changes simply needed longer to settle and people just had no vision and were ignorant cucks and literally need to git gud.

Long story short: complaints were raised, discussions were had, process finally BECAME more transparent.
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Re: General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

Postby TharxGamma » Mon 07 May, 2018 8:28 am

Oddnerd wrote:Cyris with Boss/Freeman/Riku as high-level advisers would be a good team.


This could actually work.

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