Elite Mod 2.6(Test Version) Changelog and Feedback Thread

[egewithin]

suggestion of some korean players who ive known.

dont cost nerf tyrant guard. they rarely used.

Tell him that Tyrant Guard is a thing now. Needs that prize.

- Ravener Alpha Tunnel capacity increased to hold 7 squads at a time.

[Atlas]

bug in test file
stormtrooper anti armor kit upgrade hp boost is bugged. tooltip say 20% add. but in game, 100% added. so their squad hp is 1840. are they wear HEV?
i think u guy check 'each of member' get 20% add hp not the group squad.

suggestion of mine:
OM BC wath affect himself good for him.
how u think gk rhino get heavy flamer replace heavy bolter & get twinlinked multi melta replace lascannon for concept(not about balance)
cleanse need buff. in my opinion, not only heal energy but also heal hp(50 for infantry armor unit/100 for heavy infantry%commander armor unit/300 for super heavy armor unit) it will be make stronger OM brethren.

nobody use dark ripper beacause seer council. are we seer council nerf and dark ripper buff? and seer council itself so devastating when they ambush from webway gate. space marine really really painful for them. i wonder their range dmg reduction passvie will delete or weak.

some guys start hate hwt's shield. so i suggest this if hwt doesnt avoid nerf: delete dmg reduction but still maintain knockback&supression immune.

suggestion of some korean players who ive known.

dont cost nerf tyrant guard. they rarely used.
wraithguard overnerfed
orks underperformed in 3v3.

ask of modder:
where is the paladin squad? note doesnt mention at all them. originally paladin deeep strike is global and f3 hotkey. but now, where are they?

Yes, you are correct on the Stormtrooper hp bug, it's already been fixed in the revision.

I can definitely think about giving the Rhino the Inferno Cannon and Multi-Melta, but I think with Hold Fire, the lascannon should work fine on the Rhino. Both those weapon systems you've mentioned are quite short ranged.

You're not the only person suggesting Cleanse needs a buff. Noted.

I really haven't heard much talk about Seer Council at all tbh. If anything, they might be a little plain considering what else Eldar has in T3. Dark Reapers can be looked at.

HWT losing damage resistance could be an idea, haven't heard that one before.

The Tyrant Guard is simply too powerful in its current state - asking for 5 power more on it and a shieldwall reduction seems reasonable. People not buying a unit doesn't make it any less OP or UP. Few Eldar really bought Falcons before even when they were unchanged but once they did, it turned out to be pretty good.

Idk much about Orks in teams tbh, but I see some good combos available.

As for the Paladin Squad, they are still in the game and unchanged atm. They simply have been moved to F5 hotkey!

[Torpid]

It is why the RA/LA wargears were left unchanged - they do need chagne but I wasn't able to test them properly so left them, better to do no bad and no good, than to risk doing bad for only a little good, right?

Yeah, nids changes read like they were written by someone who wishes nids never existed, and has never played them.

I'm not sure where you get that from given that the nid changes were mostly proposed by me and Big Mathis who were arguably the best nid players around - at least back then in January when the change proposals were being drafted.

I understand that there is a real internal balance issue with regards to the HT vs RA/LA and a lot of that is the design flaw of the LA being super cheesy with flesh hook+infiltration (which has subsequently got nerfed to the ground hard) and then the RA lacking synapse so the HT is infinitely better. Increasing tunnel capacity is just one way to make the RA a tad more viable, giving more returns for the amount of micro investment required. Myself, I would encourage the community to be very open to changes to the wargear of the RA and the LA as I do not believe at the moment they are well balanced. Yet, I don't have the play-time in the current meta to strongly suggest any changes on it.

Another concern about tyranids is the lack of the focused warp blast snare. Myself, I love this. Yes, nids struggle against transports? And so what! They destroy every other race in T1, utterly utterly destroy and the tyrant guard's pressure, if used appropriately, should more than compensate for the pain that you suffer as a nid at the hands of transports. They are not impossible to defeat, although they do hit the LA the hardest, yet as can be seen in this replay, the LA can still more than deal with them:

https://www.dawnofwar.info/esl/match/23152237

I think this has resulted in an epic meta for nids wherein you HAVE to push your pressure really hard in T1 in order to get enough of a snowballable advantage to storm through T2 and crush your opponent before they get the option to go T3 and get any tanks. I love it. It's fast paced and fun and you can't just a-move ranged blobs successfully anymore, because of how weak the zoans are as AV. You need to actually micro and have skill to play nids! This is a novel thing we've never had before the change was made. I personally think it is amazing. (spore mine usage withstanding, they still are a bullshit unit with too high reward for no risk)

The ravener change is the obvious next step. They were too strong before due to how early they came out. The devourer upgrade was a no-brainer but to leave them without devourers in t1 would make them useless there, like retail. Therefore, the changes. And the better melee potential they now have in T2 means you can use them really well, microing their stance swapping in T1 then swap to full on melee and overwhelm your foe in T2 with melee spam + TGs so you get the eco advantage or just win on VPs before the game can get to T3. And you swamp their transports in numbers to make them obselete.

The venom cannon carnifex does need some looking at though, it's very meh atm and nearly always overshadowed by the TB/BS fex.

My proposal changes for heretics were as follows:
Heretics -
Experience yield reduced from 50 to 45.
Aspiring champion upkeep cost reduced from 12.5 to 8.
Hp increased from 75 to 80 per model.
Cost increased from 190 to 210.

This reads like nerfing melee tics even further :/ To follow your theme but focus on helping out melee more, I'd propose something like:

Heretics -
Experience yield reduced from 50 to 45.
Aspiring champion cost increased from 90/25 to 100/25
Aspiring champion health bonus increased from 20% to 25%
Aspiring champion population decreased from 5 to 4
Aspiring champion upkeep cost reduced from 12.5 to 10.2

Also worth considering would be a small reduction in the GL tics autogun damage.

[/quote]

I don't really see how? A 20 req increase to initial cost is very minor and they would get that extra hp so bleed less. The difference between mine and your proposals essentially is that you want the initial tic squad to perform as they do now, a very cheap but very frail unit. I want the initial tic squad to be slightly more expensive but perform quite a bit better in combat - my changes, despite how deceptive the percentages may seem - do significantly buff the default tic squad while also buffing the AC variant but less so than yours precisely because the initial variant is stronger. I don't see much of a discrepancy between our changes either way. I think they'd do mostly the same thing.

[boss]

Ravener Brood:
- Ravener Brood cost increased from 350/40 to 450/50.
- Raveners already start with Devourers upgrade. (need clarification - Raveners now benefit from Melee Synapse)
- Devourer damage reduced from 22dps to 19dps.
- Melee Raveners now receive 90% ranged damage resistance when burrowing. (need clarification - referring to when they use the Burrow Jump, not when they are only burrowed.)

Enhanced Muscle Coil
- Upgrade price reduced from 60/20 to 40/10. (suggestion - from 40/10 to 50/15)
- Upgrade now grants a 20% hp increase and power_melee_pvp damage
type.
- Upgrade removes Devourer weapon

How much damage will melee raveners do in 2.6?

[Cyris]

@Torpid: quick and dirty cause I don't have time right now...

The changes I see there just don't match the theory you are discussing. Quick points:

• It's nothing but nerfs. Not intrinsically bad (nids are very strong) but it's a warning.
• HT is pretty close to the only viable commander, so global nerfs to the nid army that don't include buffs to LA / RA are going to exacerbate this. Plus a big nerf to one of the main reasons HT is the viable commander - AV.
• The T1 rushdown dominance is getting nerfed, which is exactly how nids are supposed to play.
• The T2 followup is also getting nerfed.
• Ravaners look over nerfed. Price / reinforcement increases are paired with potency nerfs is a lot.
• I love the direction of splitting Ravs into a ranged vs melee focus. I think it could be done without this level of nerf. Are Ravs as strong as ASM? I don't think so, especialy with a damage decrease.

[Torpid]

Ravener Brood:
- Ravener Brood cost increased from 350/40 to 450/50.
- Raveners already start with Devourers upgrade. (need clarification - Raveners now benefit from Melee Synapse)
- Devourer damage reduced from 22dps to 19dps.
- Melee Raveners now receive 90% ranged damage resistance when burrowing. (need clarification - referring to when they use the Burrow Jump, not when they are only burrowed.)

Enhanced Muscle Coil
- Upgrade price reduced from 60/20 to 40/10. (suggestion - from 40/10 to 50/15)
- Upgrade now grants a 20% hp increase and power_melee_pvp damage
type.
- Upgrade removes Devourer weapon

How much damage will melee raveners do in 2.6?

75dps as is standing - the 25dps they do atm made power melee. The idea behind them is to be a line-breaker more than a killer given that they are a jump unit that while jumping now resists ranged fire and then they have 1512hp with synapse and 7.5 speed. Plus of course they get that awesome knockback upon coming out of the ground. It would seem any large dps rise would be quite inappropriate, but, perhaps it would be justified? Atm they do slightly less damage than ASM, but are all power melee come T2 with slightly less hp than a full ASM squad but only light infantry armour which in T2 is probably better for melee initiation. Of course nids also get the TGs and far superior melee to SM so they really ought not to perform as well as ASM I feel.

Thoughts Boss?

@Torpid: quick and dirty cause I don't have time right now...

The changes I see there just don't match the theory you are discussing. Quick points:

• It's nothing but nerfs. Not intrinsically bad (nids are very strong) but it's a warning.
• HT is pretty close to the only viable commander, so global nerfs to the nid army that don't include buffs to LA / RA are going to exacerbate this. Plus a big nerf to one of the main reasons HT is the viable commander - AV.
• The T1 rushdown dominance is getting nerfed, which is exactly how nids are supposed to play.
• The T2 followup is also getting nerfed.
• Ravaners look over nerfed. Price / reinforcement increases are paired with potency nerfs is a lot.
• I love the direction of splitting Ravs into a ranged vs melee focus. I think it could be done without this level of nerf. Are Ravs as strong as ASM? I don't think so, especialy with a damage decrease.

On the contrary I think the HT is simply OP and that the LA/RA are pretty balanced atm. I don't feel there is any unit in the tyranid roster atm other than the venom cannon carnifex that underperforms so it would be expected that they only receive nerfs.

In their current state raveners are far superior to ASM (that is, 2.5), in the beta patch they are inferior as a melee unit in T2, but that is fine because ASM are a unique unit that fills a unique hole in the SM roster being the -only- melee squad they get barring the very rare assault termies. If tyranids got an ASM option in T2 they would be broken as hell considering the potency of gaunts, heavy melee genes and TGs. In t1 you should NEVER be losing ravener models. You only jump when you can swarm the foe with gaunts after and thoroughly out-bleed him. Otherwise you chip away bleeding foes. So the cost efficiency for reinforcement costs only should could into play come T2.

Barring raveners being so strong in T1 nothing else is changed... BSWB is still as effective as ever. Termagants doing their thing. Horms likewise. The rushdown has not been changed - you can easily overwhelm your foe with lots of dps and cost effectively engage them all day long while getting more map control with your universally faster army. Spore mines having been changed yet, but as I say, they should.

[Atlas]

The thing I don't really like about the Torpid/Cyris suggestions on tics is that they rely so much on the AC. I think 3 tic builds should actually be a thing, but not necessitate a 25 power purchase on each to make it work.

Same idea I did with ists - buff the unit itself just a touch and then offer decent support, instead of making the unit decidedly meh and basically requiring great support.

[Torpid]

The thing I don't really like about the Torpid/Cyris suggestions on tics is that they rely so much on the AC. I think 3 tic builds should actually be a thing, but not necessitate a 25 power purchase on each to make it work.

Same idea I did with ists - buff the unit itself just a touch and then offer decent support, instead of making the unit decidedly meh and basically requiring great support.

But how could you make the default tics better while also making the 3 tic build viable?

The 3 tic build works so well atm because of how cheap the tics are - you only use 1 or at most 2 in a 4 tic build or fighting. The others are purely cappers or worship support.

If you want a default tic to be a remotely fearsome melee unit we go waaay back to older patches where tics cost more than 210 req, but then of course you can no longer get 3 of them nevermind 4!

[boss]

They should do good vs sm but their devourer would be better for dealing with scout if full upgrade so you don't have to keep sending over both your termagant to you deal with them don't no if I want to give that up come t2
but vs chaos do you really want melee ravener not really.
vs ig why devourer all the way.
vs orks no way thay die to any melee squad plus devourer are better vs them
elder maybe but might a well just keep their Devourer and go tg to break lines
om I don't no really

but the reason why I don't like this cos their damage 25dps just seem meh just seems so low in t2 when you can get genestealer or tg for melee. giving up their devourer shut down nids their range power buy a lot then it just termagant with venom brood all the time. I can see why melee ravener sound cool but do nids need them when they get better squads for it tg break the line ravener jump setup teams and tie them up then shoot stuff with devourer. I don't see how melee ravener will fit into nids build much.

[Atlas]

Alright, fair enough Torpid. Still, I think the 190 tics should stay and we should just buff the unit itself a bit. Nothing game-changing really, but appreciable.

As for Cyris, the only AV nerf to HT isn't even really an AV nerf - his AV wargear has gotten cheaper in exchange for no longer having a splash to shoot infantry too. If you ask me, in terms of pure AV, his wargear got slightly buffed by being cheaper.

The rest of the bits about LA/RA becoming a dead art in 1v1 rings true to me, however. But as Torpid said, not sure what specifically to change on them assuming there is a problem at all.

Boss has correctly mentioned that ranged ravs are more useful than the more melee focused ravs here. He is entirely correct, and it is the reason why they are getting nerfed. Borrowing again from Torpid, their focus should be less on being Kasrkins in T1 ( ) and more on being a simple jump squad. 25 melee_power_weapons_pvp damage is not too shabby. Sure, it won't 1v1 most jump teams (at least if they have leaders) . But nids have so much melee prowess and speed that you don't need ravs to dominate melee as well. Their versatility is their boon in T1, followed by being able to smoothly blend in to melee strats in T2.

[Adeptus Noobus]

The rest of the bits about LA/RA becoming a dead art in 1v1 rings true to me, however. But as Torpid said, not sure what specifically to change on them assuming there is a problem at all.

May I point your attention towards these replays:

• http://www.dawnofwar.info/esl/match/24558852
• http://www.dawnofwar.info/esl/match/24567924
• http://www.dawnofwar.info/esl/match/24659071

Especially tha RA is far from a bad choice in 1v1 since he has such awesome gimmicks to be one of the most annoying heroes to play against (Tunnels, Ranged blob of death, etc).

Also, can we please be honest about this

HWT losing damage resistance couldshould be an idea, haven't heard that one before.

HWTs in their current state, and I will gladly repeat this a million times over, are far from balanced. Too much hp, no kb, dmg reduction, autocannon, endless reinforcing with bunkers/chimeras. It is time we adress this further than by just increasing their cost by a laughable 25. Nobody so far has presented any reason as to why HWTs remain in their current state (Torpid excluded).

[_4ut_]

HWTs in their current state, and I will gladly repeat this a million times over, are far from balanced.

Use AOE Luke. Really use it.
All its wain about hvt and gm looks like not pro pleyr speaks. AOE and no problem thith it.

What's the realy hvt need? Low hp and low squad person. And stop with it. Falkon shild to op, da to op, plag to op... In all facthion has op unit. And why need kill it in ig only? It's always worsted in 1v1. Go around and it weal be second OM.

[Flash]

Yay new patch! I shall come back now! I like a lot of this. Regarding OM issues with setup and snipers, would it be a bad idea to get interceptors back into t1 with appropriate changes? They were super OP in the past with their 0-range teleport, but if adjusted may fix that hole in the roster. Additionally they synergize really well with the revamped energy economy/focus of OM.

dinner now will do more looking into later

[Adeptus Noobus]

What's the realy hvt need? Low hp and low squad person. And stop with it. Falkon shild to op, da to op, plag to op... In all facthion has op unit. And why need kill it in ig only? It's always worsted in 1v1. Go around and it weal be second OM.

If you'd care to read the changelog you would find that the Falcon, Dire Avengers and Plague Marines are all recieving nerfs.

All its wain about hvt and gm looks like not pro pleyr speaks. AOE and no problem thith it.

This is not only coming from me but also from many much more experienced players. If you would also have taken the time to read the previous comments, you would have realized that Torpid himself claims that IG need further rebalancing and he is among the top 10 players in this community. I am also happy to refer you to Freeman, who, undoubtably, will tell you all about IG and their current state of balance, being one of the best IG players out there.
Your comment does not really further the discussion simply because it lacks any helpful content whereas I have, on many occasions, supplied ample information behind my reasoning.

[Tinibombini]

What's the realy hvt need? Low hp and low squad person. And stop with it. Falkon shild to op, da to op, plag to op... In all facthion has op unit. And why need kill it in ig only? It's always worsted in 1v1. Go around and it weal be second OM.

Please read the change log. Then please read the previous posts. Then please read Codex's post that is pinned in the balance section and try to apply it to your future posts that seek to comment on balance.

All of the above assumes that you want people to take your posts seriously.

[Flash]

ok more thoughts. Yay for lack of nurgle shrine suppression with frenzied nobs, yay for lrr flamers no longer suppressing. That was a massive indirect nerf to nobs. Satisfied with the kommando nob nerf. I like most of the ork changes actually including the slugga nob.

Things that might need some further looking at:
-Plague and chosen plagues. Need less sustain? Lower health regen to an appropriate degree?
-Should scout regen and APO aura still stack?
-teleport/hammer FC was still a pita/too strong to play against in 3v3, if not as toxic as it used to be.
-canticle is way too expensive. It has merit as a global, with the rework of OM has having essentially an energy/ability use economy.
-likewise cleanse is too expensive for what it gives you.
-Is the brocap hammer meh/internally imbalanced with the halberd and the sword still? Melee damage is alright, but I always thought the abaility was underwhelming for cost. Taking into account the new energy eco now, along with the some of the wargear changes and the rotation rate changes especially, it could be fine.
-Agree with cyris about IST sergent being cheaper. intersting thought with 2 grenade launchers instead of 4. lets them keep some of their ff with the SS changes.


-Echoing sentiments about DA, gm, hwt, leman russ/elite tank crew, Kasrikin, rangers

Overall this looks really really good guys. Thanks a lot for taking the time and effort to make this happen!

[Rostam]

have guys any idea on the release date?

[Atlas]

have guys any idea on the release date?

Basically depends upon the speed we get good feedback.

And ty for the feedback Flash. A lot of those ideas have been mentioned before, but you've put in a little more clarity.

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

Lots of interesting changes, specially to OM.

There was already said, but the Heretics buff is misguided. Its going to make GL more viable, since they are going to last long in firefights because they are going to be in cover, recibing less damage than default (and even AC) melee heretics, that after last patches they are underperforming in melee combat. (And they should, thanks to the new cost).

At the moment, Heretics are XP dispensers. They are easy to kill with thanks to their tight formation and easy to kill them in range thanks to their low HP.

I like the way the Heretics are being focused, but still needs a big step ahead to focus them in the role.

If you really want buff melee heretics, it's simple. Reduce the XP they give when they die, increase AC cost, make AC Heretics reinforce 2x1 in T2.

Didn't the Chaos Predator already cost 18 pop? Or it was a buff in a previous patch?

Agree with CL, PC, CS, Havocs, PM, CPM...

I still think that MoK CSM need something more interesting than a cost decrease. Demoralize maybe?

The Chaos Terminator Demoralize ability it's a bit underused, IMHO, and it's a interesting mechanic. Could be a good addition to other Chaos units, as opposite (but similar) to SM which is more about buff your own units. Not talking about make it a key ability in the Chaos gameplay, but something which could give some sauce.

[Dark Riku]

Why not add the Hold Fire Ability to every unit?

Only disagreements I have with current changes are:
Some things are not touched
Dark Flames should really stay at 150 red. It's a very potent global.
Land Raider got almost all it's perks removed. Add back in the damage resistance aura.

[Atlas]

Why not add the Hold Fire Ability to every unit?

Only disagreements I have with current changes are:
Some things are not touched
Dark Flames should really stay at 150 red. It's a very potent global.
Land Raider got almost all it's perks removed. Add back in the damage resistance aura.

If you can list the things that aren't touched but should be in your opinion, that would be good. Ace brought up the LRR DR aura. Otherwise, ty for the post!

[Myrdal]

I wanna come down really hard on this. Here's my thesis: Auto-cannons anti-all capabilities need to be removed, not mitigated.
The problem I see with autocannons (Chaos and IG both) is that they are AV, anti swarmy infantry, anti HI and decent anti single entity. The changes proposed reduce burst and net damage which I like, but these are changes that effect each of the auto-cannons capabilities in equal measure making not any less an anti-all weapon, but just a net weaker weapon. This is a really dangerous balancing act, since it will almost immediately swap from good in every situation, to good in no situations.
I propose that instead of weakening them in every single situation, that they are instead focused in their roles. This was discussed elsewhere, but I want to see them change their damage types from explosive to autocannon. This would leave their damage profile the same against all targets except vehicles, where it will go from 100% to 75%. This could happen in conjunction with the burst duration changes listed above (which generally allow for better counter-play, so I'm in favor) but remove the need to too much damage reduction. With this change, the cannons will remain incredibly good against swarmy infantry, while being significantly worse options against vehicles.

Valid points but what we aimed for as a first step was reducing burst duration. Regardless of its damage it was always an annoyance when they kept firing outside of range and LOS. What you suggest makes sense but these are probably independent changes so fret not.

Rangers
Rangers fill a tricky role, often overshadowed by the more consistent, scaleable, cheaper and easier to micro Shurican. In this update we focus on making their CC capabilities more consistent.
Sniper_HI - Suppression resistance from cover reduced from .75 / .5 to 1 / 1 (in other words, cover no longer gives suppression resistance)

Also makes sense, we can add it right away I feel.

I would request an upkeep decrease on the wraithlord so that multiple of them are viable in T2. When you get a few with some brightlances it allows the eldar T2 to become very formidable vs races like orks. It's an alternative to increase his life or decreasing the cost which apparently goes against how Caeltos wants to see the unit operate.

Iirc the change was upkeep down to 24 from 30.6 or 2/pop from 2.55/pop. This does very little by itself though. Remember you get 30 pop of your cheapest units for free, and wl basically already qualifies as cheapest unit at 2.55/pop. So you'd only see improvement when exceeding 30 pop of 2/pop units, so for example 3 wls. Not sure if I'm making sense. I could have the wrong idea about upkeep though, but anyway I think adjusting pop is the better approach. Did you consider that instead?

Tic buff is not sufficient and misguided

It's not clear from the changelog but this belongs in the bug fix category. Balance changes for tics haven't been decided on yet. What this is about is heretics uniquely have their "in combat regen multiplier" set to 0, while every other entity in the game has either 1 or 0.5 afaik. So people bring up nurgle worship, well even if that's a concern (doubt it) that should be adjusted on nurgle worship rather than globally.

[Adeptus Noobus]

Rangers
Rangers fill a tricky role, often overshadowed by the more consistent, scaleable, cheaper and easier to micro Shurican. In this update we focus on making their CC capabilities more consistent.
Sniper_HI - Suppression resistance from cover reduced from .75 / .5 to 1 / 1 (in other words, cover no longer gives suppression resistance)

I very much disagree with this because suppression was one of the features that just felt very wrong about Rangers and didn't solve the issue I raised in my other thread, namely wether they are still fullfilling their role as hard-hitters. I still believe that drastically reducing their dmg and giving them suppression instead caused a big shift in how certain matchups play out since Rangers do not give enough bang for the buck anymore. I think as a community, we and the balance-team should come to a conclusion on that topic first before improving their suppression mechanic.

P.S: Let us also not forget that suppression resistance from heavy cover was patched in only last patch...

[Deflaktor]

What I think is also missing is a change to the Valkyrie Leman Russ Drop global. Imo it needs a cost increase of +25 energy or something.

It is really annoying when opponent rushes t3 and then drops a leman russ on your transport with no way to save it. Have it had happened to me quite a few times and I think it is cheesy.

[_4ut_]

What's the realy hvt need? Low hp and low squad person. And stop with it. Falkon shild to op, da to op, plag to op... In all facthion has op unit. And why need kill it in ig only? It's always worsted in 1v1. Go around and it weal be second OM.

If you'd care to read the changelog you would find that the Falcon, Dire Avengers and Plague Marines are all recieving nerfs.

All its wain about hvt and gm looks like not pro pleyr speaks. AOE and no problem thith it.

This is not only coming from me but also from many much more experienced players. If you would also have taken the time to read the previous comments, you would have realized that Torpid himself claims that IG need further rebalancing and he is among the top 10 players in this community. I am also happy to refer you to Freeman, who, undoubtably, will tell you all about IG and their current state of balance, being one of the best IG players out there.
Your comment does not really further the discussion simply because it lacks any helpful content whereas I have, on many occasions, supplied ample information behind my reasoning.

I read it. I read it all in start. But I continues speak that all its IG crying its about that Player with anhuman micro skill is boring to play IG. They want to feel HARD about it. But all its wishes just kill IG for normal people. And say me one more time that 1v1 IGvEldar was not broken before this patch. Yep I need time to se how
it now.

[Helios]

Nice... Let's nerf IG more, Especially the Commissar Lord. Welp, guess i'm done with this game. May as well wait for DoW3.

[Crewfinity]

Nice... Let's nerf IG more, Especially the Commissar Lord. Welp, guess i'm done with this game. May as well wait for DoW3.

low key tho they're getting some big buffs with the new hold fire ability
its gonna be really strong for that faction

[Black Relic]

Nice... Let's nerf IG more, Especially the Commissar Lord. Welp, guess i'm done with this game. May as well wait for DoW3.

No let's be real here. IG are super strong and you think they are fine they way they are. I was playing against Shroom who is a pretty darn good Chaos Lord player as the Lord General. And nearly not know wtf i was doing i was able to hold him off for quite awhile. If i knew what to do for at least 50% of that game I would have won it hands down.

If i can half arse in a 1v1 and nearly win with a faction then they are too good. So sorry to be real mean here but it sounds like you have room for improvement. I am getting real frustrated by a faction getting nerfs that they deserve and people whining about it. Inspire determination did not get touched here nor did stubbornness and you are complaining that the Commissar Lord is being overnerfed. What??

The only thing i would like is to pretty much remove pop cost of the Guardsmen Sergeant but increase pop of the commissar leader by a certain amount and increase the price of the Guardsmen Sergeant to compensate. Thats means more pop to work with in t1 which also means less upkeep. This probably won't be considered yet because the HWT is too good atm and then immediately turn into the best t1 race in the game which it arguably is already with the spotter and catachan change.

[Soberson]

Can Spotters fire any of their abilities into Fog of War?

[Adeptus Noobus]

Can Spotters fire any of their abilities into Fog of War?

No, you need sight for the artillery shell.