Elite Mod 2.4.2

[Deflaktor]

Maybe because people dont know about it. Preventing ability knockback on a t1 armor for a whole army seems too much to me. It completely negates gravity blade, a t2 weapon.

Post bugs in the bug thread too thanks.

Just looked for it for the second time and still cant find it. Can you provide me with a link?

Found it by looking for it for the third time

[Adeptus Noobus]

Isnt that too much? I guess that would mean that even Orbital wont pick up units on "Incoming!"

But you never see anyone do that, for some reason it doesn't occur to people and it would be such a niche usage.

For some reason people prefer running away from scorching beams of fire from the sky rather than standing in them thinking "At least I won't be knocked over when I die!"

[Deflaktor]

You misunderstood. If you hit retreat you will still get picked up by the laser beams and suffer losses. If you don't retreat and instead activate that ability you can just run past the laser beams (they wont lift up your units into the air anymore) before they explode without suffering losses.

[FrankNova]

So the mod is working and all, but I just played against my friend, who decided to try the orks, and the first truck, and the ork version of the Dreadnought, are pretty much invincible, wtf is that all about? My two turrets, and 4+ squads of eldars, + my Warlock, hitting the thing at the same time, and it was pretty much not giving a flying f*** about it. Is that a problem? Or it's how it normally goes? Thougher than hell?

[Wise Windu]

The units you had don't do anti-vehicle damage. You'd have to upgrade your Shuriken platforms to Brightlances to have anti-vehicle damage.

If you just attack it with normal infantry weapons, there won't be much effect.

Here's the damage type done by the regular Shuriken turret: http://www.dawnofwar.info/elite/damaget ... ession_pvp

You can see that the multiplier against vehicles is 0.02, so it doesn't do much.

This is the damage type done by the Brighlance weapon, which deals 100% damage to vehicles: http://www.dawnofwar.info/elite/damaget ... ercing_pvp

[FrankNova]

Alright, seems fair enough, a bit unbalanced tho, since he pretty much moved the tank and the dreadnought into my base and I couldn't do anything about it. But okay, we'll just not play orks.

[Wise Windu]

Well, all races have Tier 2 vehicles... Although I guess Orks have two inexpensive ones. It won't be a problem only against Orks. You just have to build Anti-Vehicle into your game plan. If you're ready for it, or you respond well, he won't be able to just walk into your base. Unless you were already behind.

With the army composition you had, you wouldn't have been able to deal with a vehicle from any faction without upgrading them.

[Swift]

If he plays Chaos or Space Marines and gets a Dreadnought... well you might have a heart attack because they've got even more health.

Nothing is imbalanced about AV weapons and vehicle armour, it means you can get caught off guard if you have no AV when a vehicle arrives, or alternatively be at a disadvantage if you stock up on too much AV.

[hiveminion]

Well, all races have Tier 2 vehicles... Although I guess Orks have two inexpensive ones.

Tyranids have no T2 vehicles.

[Wise Windu]

Well, all races have Tier 2 vehicles... Although I guess Orks have two inexpensive ones.

Tyranids have no T2 vehicles.

Technically, sure. But you still need AV to deal with the TG. I'd still kind of consider it a vehicle in some respects. It's kind of nitpicking, and the point still stands.

[hiveminion]

You don't need AV to deal with a Tyrant Guard, you only need it if you want to kill it. That's a fundamental difference because T2 vehicles can completely baselock a T1 army and guarantee a power bash whereas a Tyrant Guard can't.

[Wise Windu]

And the Tyrant Guard can allow the Tyranid player to put on enough pressure to push you back into base, and continue doing so if you can't deal with it. It's not as much of a straight up vehicle threat, but it supplies enough pressure in combination with the Nid army to basically create an equivalent threat. If you can't kill it, the pressure doesn't go away, and the Tyranid player will keep compounding that pressure if you can't deal with them or their economy.

[hiveminion]

I agree the Tyrant Guard in combination with the Tyranid army can exert equivalent pressure like an early T2 vehicle. Therefore by itself it doesn't function like such a vehicle. Sorry to be pedantic but so many people seem to think Tyrant Guard are mini-Dreadnoughts when they're more like a mega-Ogryn that can't retreat.

[Wise Windu]

Yeah, I guess I should have clarified it isn't as good stand-alone.

So yeah, buy Anti-vehicle to deal with that Wartrukk

[Dark Riku]

@Hiveminion
You are right, TG's are actually better in most cases than their counterpart vehicles. (genbashing DD comes to mind) They are basically better dreadnoughts.
TG's have a ton going for them, bar that they have to be under synapse to move around fast enough, but then again that isn't really a problem as Tyranids always want to be under synapse/towers. They can go into vehicle armor mode that will heal them up! No need to repair, combine that with a HP multiplier (zoa/nest/HQ) and its HP will sky rocket back to full. This means that your enemy has to invest in both anti SHI and AV if he wants to take down the TG (or have something to drain the energy or stun it and catch it alone somehow.) And then he gets the "get out of jail free card" with the charge. To add to that you are also right that it isn't labelled as a vehicle, so it also has the extra benefit that something like the flesh over steel ability granted by the powerfist of the FC doesn't work on it! So yeah, the analogy stands pretty damn well imo.

[hiveminion]

This may warrant a separate thread.

Considering the original point regarded the performance of a T1 army against vehicle armour, I disagree that the Tyrant Guard classifies as a vehicle equivalent.

In a broader sense, of course the Tyrant Guard has benefits compared to other walker units (especially considering its cost). Despite that I certainly would not consider it outright better than a Dreadnought. Just to sum up some disadvantages to consider along your stated advantages:

1. SHI armour in active mode
2. No ranged weapon upgrade
3. No melee resistance

Just consider going up against an Ork with upgraded Sluggas and Stormboyz, or a Chaos player with Khorne CSM and Bloodletters. You wouldn't think twice to get a Dreadnought out, whereas a Tyrant Guard would be a risky choice.

[HiveSpirit]

Suggestion/ ideas/ whishes:
*T3 Lictor +10 increased melee skill, he doesnt win vs upgraded sluggas =(
*Ravener Alpha, the possibility to directly jump insteed of burrowing a tunnel, a switch to turn this option off/on or another ability key for it.