2.9.8.4 Public Beta Patch Notes

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Impregnable
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2.9.8.4 Public Beta Patch Notes

Postby Impregnable » Sat 17 Dec, 2022 3:11 pm

Important Notice:
1/ This is not a full release. The full release will be done sometime before holiday seasons.
- All balance discussions and bug reports not done until then will not be included in the full release.
2/ Visit testing-discussion channel in Community Discord and check the pinned message to get access to this Beta Patch.

Preamble:
As was mentioned in a previous update, we are releasing a Beta for the populace to partake in both to see the response of various proposals we’ve heard and to have a wider audience to screen for bugs and other unintended behavior in-game as a result of the latest changes.

This Beta is entirely opt-in, meaning that in order to get access to it you’ll need to visit the testing discussion channel on the discord and download it within the pinned messages. The Beta will work just like any other patch with the exception that it doesn’t carry its own edition increment and is eligible to receive either additions or subtractions not currently listed here as feedback comes in when the official version launches sometime before Christmas if we continue to stay on schedule. We hope you players will be better able to offer feedback with this Beta build in your hands over simply reading these proposals in text like we’ve done before!

Unfortunately, we are unable to make the timeline for any army painter or hero select menu fixes for this beta or patch as I previously hinted due to some continuing technical snags that we projected to have completed somewhere in this time frame. On the positive end, we believe we’ll be able to offer a bit of joy and insights on some technical progress we’ve made behind the scenes in the official Christmas update. We’ll speak more on this and some other topics at that time! For now we hope the addition of the Calderis Jungle map will be enough to tide you over while you wait.

CREDITS
I would like to thank the team for their many contributions to the mod yet again.

Models, Animations and Visuals: Enlargingcloud, Kekoulis, Noot, Garrick, Yreeeet
Programming (Units, Abilites and Misc): Shoulder Mount, Atlas, Enlargingcloud, Noot, Snowkip
Visual Effects: Enlargingcloud, Noot
Maps: Inekura, Swift, Noot
Portraits: Knall
Community Manager/Misc: yellowmonkeySoulEater
Game Testers: Shoulder Mount, Inekura, Enlargingcloud and all the people who tested all the various test builds who are too numerous to name

Finally, we extend one more thanks to you players for sticking around as long as you have. You’re the most faithful lot I’ve ever seen and we can meet your expectations from here on out.

General Changes / QOL:
Menu model changed to Exodite Warlock to denote the beta versus the current live version.

Maps:
Calderis Jungle added to the 1v1 map pool.

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ImageChaos Space Marines
We believe Chaos to be in a stable and healthy position as of this moment. As a result, we simply keep the course for this current iteration and wait to see if any pressure points develop due to changes made on other rosters.

Chaos Sorcerer:
Daemon Armor cost reduced from 125/30 to 125/25.

Chaos Heretics:
Aspiring Champion bolter damage per hit reduced from 18(11 dps) to 13(8 dps).

Chaos Terminators:
Health regeneration increased from 1.25 hp/s to 2 hp/s.


ImageEldar
Currently, we are trying to monitor Eldars performance rather precisely and will act on the outcome of our investigations in future patches. There have been several proposals, feedback and developments that have drawn the team’s interests.

Our primary change in this beta for Eldar is the implementation of an experimental change to Rangers squad that has tested well so far. We wish to see how it performs in a wider audience and see how general response to it is before committing to the change entirely.


Howling Banshees:
Reinforcement cost increased from 28/0 to 30/0.

Rangers:
Population cost increased from 2 to 3. Squad wise, increased from 6 to 9 in total.
Squad now comes with Fleet of Foot by default.
Squad now comes with Infiltrate by default.
Squad now has minor Melee Resistance Aura by default.
Squad no longer starts with a Long Rifle. Each member now has a pistol and a sword loadout.
Squad's Shuriken Pistols now make enemy infantry hit receive 15% more damage for 4 seconds.

Pathfinder Gear
Grants the whole squad Long Rifles in addition to its current effects.
Long Rifle damage per hit set to 21(6 dps).
Long Rifle teardown increased from 0.75 to 1.25.
Long Rifle cooldown reduced from 1 to 0.5.
Long Rifle reload reduced from 3-3 to 2-2.
Kinetic Pulse now disables combat while being used. This is for preventing bugs.

Avatar:
Avatar sword damage per hit increased from 240(80 dps) to 270(90 dps).


ImageImperial Guard
Imperial Guard(Astra Militarum) have likewise had some considerable discussion both in public feedback and internally. For now, we’re offering a couple of quality of life boosts for Artillery Spotter Squad before we commit to more.

Artillery Spotter Squad:
Incendiary Shell damage over time increased from 7 to 14.
Incendiary Shell damage over time duration reduced from 20 seconds to 10 seconds.
Mortar Shell and Incendiary Shell can now be fired into the Fog of War.


ImageOrdo Malleus
We are mostly happy with Ordo Malleus’ performance in the mid to late game but have noted that the faction struggles to reach that phase of the game in a winnable state.

Brother-Captain has unusual difficulty defending himself in melee specifically against faster opponents so we are sending one of a variety of proposals into Beta which is We Are the Hammer! buff and as well as boosts to his damage output and survivability early on.

We are still experimenting with different options to make Purgation Squad more viable. This set of changes focuses on improving Incinerator weapon system where the squad is commonly noted to be the most lackluster.


Brother-Captain:
We Are the Hammer! now grants Brother-Captain 3 power_melee_pvp in radius 5 per melee attack in addition to its current effects.
We Are the Hammer! (Improved) increases the splash damage to 5 power_melee_pvp.
Default melee weapon damage per hit increased from 41(27.33 dps) to 46(33.28 dps).
Nemesis Force Sword damage per hit increased from 60(40 dps) to 80(50 dps).
Blessed Aegis health to energy conversion ratio increased from 3.5:1 to 4:1.
Blessed Aegis now grants 100 hp in addition to its other effects.

Inquisitorial Storm Troopers:
Squad member red yield reduced from 7 to 6.

Inquisitorial Operatives:
Fallback Plan hotkey moved from T to Q.
Melee skill increased from 50 to 71.
Melta Bomb ability now stacks with other sources.

Purgation Squad:
Purged by Fire! range increased from 15 to 20.
Incinerator courage damage reduced from 60 to 0.
Incinerator distant damage modifier increased from 0.8 to 1.
Incinerator now applies 100 courage damage on targets hit in a radius of 3 for 1.5 seconds. Once applied, the weapon reapplies 100 courage damage so long as it fires on the same target every 2 seconds.

Grey Knight Terminators:
Health regeneration increased from 1 hp/s to 2 hp/s.

Paladins:
Health regeneration increased from 1 hp/s to 2 hp/s.


ImageOrks
We will continue to monitor Ork's economy but have not seen anything particularly convincing or damning in current reviews. Use Yer Choppas! is something we have received feedback from on numerous occasions so we wish to see how some proposed nerfs to it will perform.

Global:
Use Yer Choppas! melee skill increase reduced from 40 to 20.

Mekboy:
Battery Pack cost increased from 100/25 to 120/25.


ImageSpace Marines
We are aware of performance issues regarding Space Marines and will bring them more in line incrementally. For now, we believe Scout Squad to be the biggest instigator of these issues for the faction as a whole and we address some cost concerns on Techmarine in particular.

The team has several other concerns that have been brought up as a result of feedback but wish to avoid swinging the pendulum too hard in one patch while other factions are moving far less swiftly.


Techmarine:
Bionics cost increased from 100/20 to 120/20.
Artificer Armor cost increased from 110/25 to 120/25.
Meltagun cost increased from 100/30 to 140/30.
Refractor Field cost increased from 110/20 to 120/25.

Scout Squad:
Scout Sergeant population cost increased from 3 to 4. Upkeep has been increased to match.
Elite Training health and energy regen bonus reduced from 1.5 hp/s + e/s to 0.5 hp/s + e/s.


ImageTyranids
We heard your concerns regarding the new Deathspitters' performance but we want to give our player base a bit more time to experiment with them before we consider them to be underperforming.

There has also been some rumblings about the strength of the faction as an entirety but we will take this one slow.


Ravener Alpha:
Ravener Tunnel exit red yield upon destruction reduced from 15 to 10 to match Tunnel entrance's red yield.

Warrior Brood:
Cost increased from 300/30 to 300/35.

Ravener Brood:
Cost reduced from 400/45 to 400/40.

Venom Brood:
Deathspitters damage per hit increased from 24 to 26.
"Excalibur!"
"Excalibur!"
"From the United Kingdom!"
"I'm looking for heaven!"
"I'm going to California!"
"Excalibur!"
"Excalibur!"
LOCALgHOST
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Re: 2.9.8.4 Public Beta Patch Notes

Postby LOCALgHOST » Mon 19 Dec, 2022 4:12 am

fix meltagun reload and increase fotm chance before you broke it so hard

BC bolter stats shoud be more like CL one?
Paranoid Kamikaze
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Re: 2.9.8.4 Public Beta Patch Notes

Postby Paranoid Kamikaze » Tue 20 Dec, 2022 4:26 am

Need to nerf Levitation Field. Give it a cast time so it can't be used while knocked down.
Ritterina
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Re: 2.9.8.4 Public Beta Patch Notes

Postby Ritterina » Tue 20 Dec, 2022 12:28 pm

Remove faster capping rate from tacs.
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Schepp himself
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Re: 2.9.8.4 Public Beta Patch Notes

Postby Schepp himself » Tue 20 Dec, 2022 6:43 pm

I like the approach. Keep up the good work and thank you all for testing the beta. There wouldn't be any progress without you!
Greets schep himself thingy
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Re: 2.9.8.4 Public Beta Patch Notes

Postby LOCALgHOST » Wed 21 Dec, 2022 6:04 am

i'd say knockback resistance on Interceptors is too high now. kinda 3-4 seconds after jump - a joke? same with stormboys
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Broodwich
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Re: 2.9.8.4 Public Beta Patch Notes

Postby Broodwich » Thu 22 Dec, 2022 6:53 am

that's.. the same for all jump troops?
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Antandron
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Re: 2.9.8.4 Public Beta Patch Notes

Postby Antandron » Mon 26 Dec, 2022 10:33 am

I will laugh if ASM have the same KB resistance and LocalgHost just went through life thinking 'this is fine' while complaining about other units having exactly the same properties.

Patch looks pretty good.

Some suggestions:

Remove die-last please. It exists only because of fleshhook being OP vs Squad Leaders. A possible solution is to reduce the range of fleshhook to 30, leave detection at 40, and now ACs, Scout Sergeants, Shoota Nobs, etc., can spot a LA before they can be fleshhooked.

Can something be done about the friendly fire mechanics in this game? It's confusing to new players and it looks incredibly dumb. Whirlwind rockets knocking back everything in a wide area but magically having no effect on SM infantry? Same for Doombolts, Destructor, Sentinel Stomp, WB Stomp, etc..

Why do PM have infantry armour? They look like HInf, smell like HInf and sound like HInf but the tooltip says 'Inf'.
Why do Ogryns have SHInf armour? See above.

PDevs are too cheap in power, which is another unnecessary asymmetry when SUTs are 250/30 and 75/0 for an upgrade, which would make PDevs about 325/30. Consistency in pricing is easier to balance. Same problem with IG Stormtroopers, which could be spammed even with almost no power income.

Units hopping into/out from transports from what looks like 20m away hurts my eyes.

Ogryns shouldn't fit into a Chimera.
Wraithguard shouldn't fit into a Falcon.

Turrets should have a pop and upkeep cost to reduce their spammability.

Chaos Terminators cost 100/50 power to reinforce which is outrageous when SM Terminators cost 150/25. There's no good reason for this asymmetry.
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Re: 2.9.8.4 Public Beta Patch Notes

Postby Torpid » Mon 26 Dec, 2022 9:13 pm

Broodwich wrote:that's.. the same for all jump troops?


Literally yes, however ASM/stormboy kb immunity starts the moment they activate the ability and the flying through the air takes a good 1-2 seconds based on distance, so when you get on the gorund you only have maybe 2seconds of actual in-combat kb immunity.

Of course the intereceptor teleport is instant, well maybe 0.5s with the wind up, so you get a good second or so longer in-combat kb immunity.

Is this a problem? I don't know.
Lets make Ordo Malleus great again!
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Re: 2.9.8.4 Public Beta Patch Notes

Postby Dark Riku » Thu 29 Dec, 2022 6:39 pm

Antandron wrote:Remove die-last please. It exists only because of fleshhook being OP vs Squad Leaders. A possible solution is to reduce the range of fleshhook to 30, leave detection at 40, and now ACs, Scout Sergeants, Shoota Nobs, etc., can spot a LA before they can be fleshhooked.
It's also a big eco mechanic.
Imagine having to rebuy those squad leaders you so desperately need for detection once they decide to die while running at the front of the squad.
Just nerfing flesh hook even more won't solve the issue. Nor will it solve the issue of it pulling in a die last resulting in squad wipes.
But remember it is far better than it was in retail. You have to play careful with a lictor around.

Antandron wrote:Can something be done about the friendly fire mechanics in this game? It's confusing to new players and it looks incredibly dumb. Whirlwind rockets knocking back everything in a wide area but magically having no effect on SM infantry? Same for Doombolts, Destructor, Sentinel Stomp, WB Stomp, etc..
Balance reasons.

Antandron wrote:Why do PM have infantry armour? They look like HInf, smell like HInf and sound like HInf but the tooltip says 'Inf'.
Balance reasons. Otherwise piercing damage will tickle them even less than they do already.

Antandron wrote:Why do Ogryns have SHInf armour? See above.
Balance reasons. They act as the linebreaker unit for IG. They are the substitute walker for them.

Antandron wrote:PDevs are too cheap in power, which is another unnecessary asymmetry when SUTs are 250/30 and 75/0 for an upgrade, which would make PDevs about 325/30. Consistency in pricing is easier to balance. Same problem with IG Stormtroopers, which could be spammed even with almost no power income.
If anything pdevs cost too much power. Ontop of costing 400 req.

Antandron wrote:Units hopping into/out from transports from what looks like 20m away hurts my eyes.
Okay? As long as a model is nearby they can hop in. Transport play is hard enough as it is already with pathing in DOW.

Antandron wrote:Ogryns shouldn't fit into a Chimera.
Wraithguard shouldn't fit into a Falcon.
Okay. Balance and tabletop says otherwise. Didn't check the lore but they probably can ride in it too there.

Antandron wrote:Turrets should have a pop and upkeep cost to reduce their spammability.
Sigh. Factcheck before you post... They take up pop.

Antandron wrote:Chaos Terminators cost 100/50 power to reinforce which is outrageous when SM Terminators cost 150/25. There's no good reason for this asymmetry.
Or there actually is.
When Caeltos introduced them it was still very much true that chaos was hungry for req and less so for power.
You also think SM variant should all be upgradable to LC's then? Cuz why asymmetry? Amirite? :)
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Re: 2.9.8.4 Public Beta Patch Notes

Postby TheTenso » Sun 01 Jan, 2023 6:28 pm

After playing nothing but orks for the last few weeks kinda feel they are pretty weak after the upkeep changes, once t2 hits it doesn't seem you can go nobs on your boyz, since the upkeep just gutts ork eco, and you can feel it man, these days only ork t3 seems to be good in 1v1s, they still can do some dmg like sure 2x full upgrade shootas can still melt things at the beginning but when you invest 90 power in them you'd expect that from 2 units, if you go fast dd or trukk it gives that mobility but man if you can't pull of a bash thats it you are done. That pop cap will completely rip your req income.
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Re: 2.9.8.4 Public Beta Patch Notes

Postby Antandron » Mon 02 Jan, 2023 5:33 pm

In my response I'm appealing to the 'Law of Common Sense' which states that everything should make sense unless it absolutely can't be balanced without making nonsense.

Dark Riku wrote:
Antandron wrote:Remove die-last please. It exists only because of fleshhook being OP vs Squad Leaders. A possible solution is to reduce the range of fleshhook to 30, leave detection at 40, and now ACs, Scout Sergeants, Shoota Nobs, etc., can spot a LA before they can be fleshhooked.
It's also a big eco mechanic.
Imagine having to rebuy those squad leaders you so desperately need for detection once they decide to die while running at the front of the squad.
Just nerfing flesh hook even more won't solve the issue. Nor will it solve the issue of it pulling in a die last resulting in squad wipes.
But remember it is far better than it was in retail. You have to play careful with a lictor around.


Squad leaders usually have a lot of hp, and many of them aren't die-last so if there was a huge problem of them dying easily we'd know about it by now. Squad leaders don't deserve special treatment and die-last sucks in many different ways. All to accommodate one LA ability.

Dark Riku wrote:
Antandron wrote:Can something be done about the friendly fire mechanics in this game? It's confusing to new players and it looks incredibly dumb. Whirlwind rockets knocking back everything in a wide area but magically having no effect on SM infantry? Same for Doombolts, Destructor, Sentinel Stomp, WB Stomp, etc..
Balance reasons.


Not an argument.

Dark Riku wrote:
Antandron wrote:Why do PM have infantry armour? They look like HInf, smell like HInf and sound like HInf but the tooltip says 'Inf'.
Balance reasons. Otherwise piercing damage will tickle them even less than they do already.


So there is no way to balance PM with ~350hp HInf? Do the devs really lack the imagination to find a solution without resorting to a kludge like giving PM Infantry armour and 666hp when CSM are 333hp HInf? It's just weird and unnecessary.

Dark Riku wrote:
Antandron wrote:Why do Ogryns have SHInf armour? See above.
Balance reasons. They act as the linebreaker unit for IG. They are the substitute walker for them.


See above. HInf would make more sense. SHInf should be reserved for Terminators and similar units.

Dark Riku wrote:
Antandron wrote:PDevs are too cheap in power, which is another unnecessary asymmetry when SUTs are 250/30 and 75/0 for an upgrade, which would make PDevs about 325/30. Consistency in pricing is easier to balance. Same problem with IG Stormtroopers, which could be spammed even with almost no power income.
If anything pdevs cost too much power. Ontop of costing 400 req.


I suggested 325/30 so 'ontop of costing 400 req' doesn't apply. Idk why 20 power for PDevs is too much iyo considering the cost of everything else in the game.

Dark Riku wrote:
Antandron wrote:Ogryns shouldn't fit into a Chimera.
Wraithguard shouldn't fit into a Falcon.
Okay. Balance and tabletop says otherwise. Didn't check the lore but they probably can ride in it too there.


Dark Riku wrote:
Antandron wrote:Turrets should have a pop and upkeep cost to reduce their spammability.
Sigh. Factcheck before you post... They take up pop.


I did factcheck, and turrets do no cost 'pop AND upkeep' but only pop. Anyway, I don't care much about this since turrets aren't a huge problem.

Dark Riku wrote:
Antandron wrote:Chaos Terminators cost 100/50 power to reinforce which is outrageous when SM Terminators cost 150/25. There's no good reason for this asymmetry.
Or there actually is.
When Caeltos introduced them it was still very much true that chaos was hungry for req and less so for power.
You also think SM variant should all be upgradable to LC's then? Cuz why asymmetry? Amirite? :)


Why are Chaos so hungry for req and not other factions?
I think all SM heroes should have access to Assault Terminators.
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Re: 2.9.8.4 Public Beta Patch Notes

Postby Broodwich » Thu 05 Jan, 2023 6:57 pm

Torpid wrote:
Broodwich wrote:that's.. the same for all jump troops?


Literally yes, however ASM/stormboy kb immunity starts the moment they activate the ability and the flying through the air takes a good 1-2 seconds based on distance, so when you get on the gorund you only have maybe 2seconds of actual in-combat kb immunity.

Of course the intereceptor teleport is instant, well maybe 0.5s with the wind up, so you get a good second or so longer in-combat kb immunity.

Is this a problem? I don't know.

they also sit around getting melee'd and full ranged damage while winding up. I'd take a regular jump over a half second extra kb immunity any day of the week
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