Elite 2.9.8.2

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Broodwich
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Elite 2.9.8.2

Postby Broodwich » Thu 27 Oct, 2022 12:51 am

Soo, i just found out this dropped today, maybe a thread to discuss?

I'm not a fan of the scout shotgun damage reductions. I've played for a long time and i don't recall their damage ever getting buffed. Elite gave them the massive health and energy regen perks with infiltration, and i think walking that back would do more than reducing the scale of their weapons damage.

I'm a bit concerned with Interceptors getting their anti-all psycannons back. There's a reason they were removed in the first place, but I guess we'll see.

Otherwise, i feel like i can get behind most of the rest of the changes for now. Way to keep moving forward guys!
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Impregnable
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Re: Elite 2.9.8.2

Postby Impregnable » Thu 27 Oct, 2022 9:04 am

I am going to make the usual release forum post when hotfix 2.9.8.3 drops. It is not still solid so please do share your idea at Discord too. https://discord.com/invite/vRQsfc8N4K The hotfix has to be made before the tournament on weekend and therefore, any and all feedbacks should be made before that.
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Deuce Bigalow
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Re: Elite 2.9.8.2

Postby Deuce Bigalow » Thu 27 Oct, 2022 4:03 pm

And the Synapse damage reduction? Why? Nids have never underperformed in 1v1..so I'm not sure of the rationale here.


The following abilities still need an indicator (on the ground or squad where they are targeting) followed by small delay so that you can have just a moment to retreat before being hit:

1. Kommando squad Luv da Dakka (this one is by far the worst)
2. Weirdboy vomit
3. Warpspider phase shift
4. Ranger kinetic pulse
Last edited by Deuce Bigalow on Thu 27 Oct, 2022 8:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Deuce Bigalow
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Re: Elite 2.9.8.2

Postby Deuce Bigalow » Thu 27 Oct, 2022 7:54 pm

Deuce Bigalow wrote:And the Synapse damage reduction? Why? Nids have never underperformed in 1v1..so I'm not sure of the rationale here.


The following abilities still need an indicator (on the ground or squad where they are targeting) followed by small delay so that you can have just a moment to retreat before being hit:

1. Kommando squad Luv da Dakka (this one is by far the worst)
2. Weirdboy vomit
3. Warpspider phase shift
4. Ranger kinetic pulse


So, ability cast -> marker appears on the ground (for luv da dakka, vomit, and phase) or squad (for kinetic pulse) -> 1-2 second delay -> ability activates
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Re: Elite 2.9.8.2

Postby Vindicarex » Fri 28 Oct, 2022 10:52 am

None of these abilities need a delay (weirdboy vomit already has a windup, already nerfed, you can clearly see the weirdboy animate). The other abilities except for kinetic pulse have also been nerfed since retail. Not everything that feels strong needs to be constantly nerfed nowadays - DoW2 is defined by the good use of powerful abilities (and sometimes this does rekt you).

As for the scouts, if they are indeed too strong, just revert infiltration upgrade to its retail form and maybe push shotguns to 20 power if scouts are that oppressive in 1v1. Or even increase the energy cost of their abilities.

Also not a fan of the HWT tear down time being reduced, I think the asymmetry between the weapons teams (particular with the havoc and the ig HWT) has been reduced too much and now a havoc/hwt/dev are almost all the same unit. I would bring back havoc's increased courage damage but reduce their dps while HWT should take longer to both set up and tear down but be like a rock while set-up (something like increased HP, shield moved to t1, maybe even bring back their repair while-set up or the sergeant).
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Deuce Bigalow
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Re: Elite 2.9.8.2

Postby Deuce Bigalow » Fri 28 Oct, 2022 11:55 am

Luv da dakka at the bare minimum does. It's an undodgeable that wipes entire armies nearly every time when you know where the first rock hits. LDD -> Roks (aimed with the center just to the upper right of the squad(s)) = done.

Even with a delay you can still use the combo, and you don't have to waste the nuke until your opponent misses his retreat.

--

Less important:

Kinetic Pulse + nade is difficult to see coming because of the long range and instant action. You can be approaching with a melee squad ready to dodge the nade and boom without warning you are knocked back and often squad wipe. I have used it and had it used against me many times. At a high level it's very dangerous and not very difficult to pull off. When the top level players use it, the time between the energy appearing on the grenade and the pulse is next to nothing.

Weirdboy and Warspider I will concede a bit since you can see energy drop on weirdboy, and warpspider phase was nerfed to be much more dangerous to the warpspider.
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Deuce Bigalow
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Re: Elite 2.9.8.2

Postby Deuce Bigalow » Fri 28 Oct, 2022 3:55 pm

Also I'd like to reiterate our balance team's motto from a few years ago: "We only change that which the majority of players agree is broken." Many, many questionable changes are going in. I'd like to see more mass player polls on specific issues so that the team has a better idea of what direction to head in, and not just what one person thinks is good. If my ideas or any other idea doesn't hold up to that test, then we give it no mind.

In addition, if the statistics on match win rates https://dawnofwar.info/esl/stats are valid, then we need to make changes according to that. Other RTS games try keep their win rates tight around the 50% marker for each race. A stat reset may be in order for more current data, but overall it shows that Nids, Eldar, and Chaos overperforming, Orks close to balanced, and SM/IG/OM underperforming for games outside the 20-25 minute threshold and in general. What would be great is if we could open the stat gathering up to unranked matches as well.

We may also have to exclude OM from that consideration, as people have had way less time to learn them compared to other races.
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Schepp himself
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Re: Elite 2.9.8.2

Postby Schepp himself » Sat 29 Oct, 2022 3:46 pm

"Fist of Brokus cost reduced from 200/50 to 150/45"

Am I missing something or does this make the Power Klaw upgrade rather moot?
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Re: Elite 2.9.8.2

Postby Dark Riku » Sat 29 Oct, 2022 5:48 pm

Schepp himself wrote:"Fist of Brokus cost reduced from 200/50 to 150/45"

Am I missing something or does this make the Power Klaw upgrade rather moot?
One is T3, the other T2.
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Re: Elite 2.9.8.2

Postby Torpid » Sun 30 Oct, 2022 2:05 pm

Schepp himself wrote:"Fist of Brokus cost reduced from 200/50 to 150/45"

Am I missing something or does this make the Power Klaw upgrade rather moot?


As Riku says, for the +50 req+5 power from before if you were T3 you would almost certainly never go for the T2 klaw. Yet even in spite of that fist of brokus was seen quite rarely. All the chimera/guardsmen nerfs have indirectly nerfed that gear.
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Lag
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Re: Elite 2.9.8.2

Postby Lag » Sun 30 Oct, 2022 7:39 pm

Thank you for the hard work! Love these changes. My only, and probably not too informed concern is that one of the least-bleeding factions (GK) gets additional upkeep reduction. But I only play team-games so it's probably something 1v1 related. :)

I wanted to ask - is there any possibility at all to turn off the moving portraits? I've really disliked the top-right portraits moving according to key-binds instead of being static and displayed according to the order units were made as they are in non-modded DoW since the beginning. Earlier in Elite one of the modders used to give me a file to paste into my folder to turn it off but that is too much hassle for everyone involved so I figured I'd ask now after years and years: is there any possibility for an easy solution that could be transferable version-to-version?

Once again thank you for your time and effort on this!

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