SS Performance

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
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HandSome SoddiNg
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SS Performance

Postby HandSome SoddiNg » Sat 21 Jun, 2014 7:16 am

Ever since the Implementation of Psk-bolts ,they seem to be doing respectable damage output ,not moderate. Tha'ts Ok But,i don't see that much of a Significant improvement compared to previously ,its not the Most demanding purchase for GK come T2,So its not worth investing into em immediately .
LV4 SS loses to lv1 Sternguard squad with Vengeance Rounds.. Anyways,SS with Justicar & Psk-bolts does lesser dps then Tacs w Sgt wielding plasma gun overall ,their damage is not Satisfactory ,just a squad with efficiency .

What happens to the 15% Justicar range damage boast if the Justicar himself is Killed 1st in a firefight,tedious to replace even 2 SS builds will scale horribly but with gud flexibility vs certain races/builds into T3 especially taking upkeep population space for vital AV units- Paladins/VA .
I'am implying the Magnitude of SS Psy-cannon & Psk-bolts is just Negotiable ,Maybe adding an additional Psy-cannon to another SS model so 2 Psy-cannons altogether in a Strike squad for extra DPS.




OR
IMO, I suggest SS Psk-bolts needs more damage percentage increase above 15% ,but remove the Psy-cannon from em entirely??? Examples : you're investing resources into 2 SS builds early ,tha'ts altogether 100 that may or might not pay off ,it might bite u in the ass. Their not considered an independent Ranged force to be reckoned with,not saying 2 SS build is weak .
But , its nothing like 2 TCSM/2 Tacs(1 Regular/1 SG) build composition ,they are problematic against 2 SS. Psk-bolt is a Compulsory requirement of the Justicar purchase to be present for it to fully work as a Whole. Suddenly,2 SS is not that a viable build then ,can be countered by a Singular hero/Jump unit or 1 Squad like Chosen PM.

SS melee capacity is 70 meele skill,1 explosive-psy-cannon mini-Low AOE output /2 abilities. Although Statistically SS is superior then Tacs ,but Tacs contribution to engagements even the playing field and their various combinations of VOT/Stimpack/BC/FTE,etc makes em reliable sources of Anti-infantry & AV ,their adaptive to ever-changing situations wherelse SS can't really participate that much late -T2/T3.

Their melee trait will be nothing against Melee specialists -Sluggaz/Shees/GSB,etc Not afraid to engage em . Unlike ATSKNF/tactical advance 50% really Helps in desperation ,shrugging off Melee units left & right & finishing Caps .
Unfortunately, GK gives +18/21 red. Good red to your opponents per SS model loss varying on their level. 2 SS cannot really edge out ontop of ranged -dog firefights,They need least 1 Melee unit be it GKI/Purifiers . Still 2 SS/purif,etc is a Heavy investments/bleedy economy whether it pay off entirely taking ample space for pivotal AV units.

Its currently underwhelming , Their not really functioning as a backbone unit to support the GK squadron .
Heck even 2 Purgation-Psycannons overall does more DPS then 2 SS in mere seconds .
Shouldn't SS be Specialized more towards Anti-infantry purposed then a stabilized Generalized role?
Make Psk-bolts compatible with Tacs wielding plasma gun ,Shouldn't Psk-bolts completely change SS role to be Anti-infantry purposed then Partial AV?
Their not even as Versatile as Tacs capable of Transitional AV smoothly or anything special , distinctively a supportive & sustainable unit type to feed GKI/BC/TL/VA energy all day long,. SS can't really distinguish whether its wants to be like Tacs or TCSM,just split into the middle. The rest of the GK arsenal are vastly improved,except maybe no traditional Snare . Only SS concerns me atm.
Last edited by HandSome SoddiNg on Tue 01 Jul, 2014 4:10 pm, edited 31 times in total.
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Re: SS Performance

Postby Lag » Sat 21 Jun, 2014 9:42 am

And then we would have another "same as the other one" squad in the GK roster. I still don't understand why 38 units in the GK roster have a flame thrower. The units are supposed to have distinct roles. That said - if you give your SS the same or very similar role as your Purgation squad I don't really see anyone ever getting a power investment just for that slow ability of the PS.
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Re: SS Performance

Postby Raffa » Sat 21 Jun, 2014 9:44 am

It's not a good idea to do Arena-of-Judgement style lab fights for determining balance.

SS aren't meant to be a ranged superiority unit. Fully upgraded, you have piercing, plasma, and explosive damage from one squad - 3 members can do special attacks, they have an energy drain/snare for dealing with melee heroes and can transfer energy on the rare occasions you need to.

Really strong unit.
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Re: SS Performance

Postby Bahamut » Sat 21 Jun, 2014 1:35 pm

Actually, the fact they may be able to outshoot a tac squad with plasma gun and sarge is an indicative of SS overperforming, not underperforming
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Re: SS Performance

Postby Forestradio » Sat 21 Jun, 2014 4:10 pm

SS are freaking awesome right now. Go watch the recent cast with them on Indrid's channel.

Also keep in mind that pysbolts are about a cheap an upgrade as they come: 75/20. I'd expect them to lose to MoT CSM, plas tacs, and other stuff like that.
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Re: SS Performance

Postby Aertes » Sat 21 Jun, 2014 5:49 pm

I mostly agree with handsome. The 1 single psycannon or incinerator for Strike Squads seem to underperform verus similar builds from another races. I know they have improved melee damage instead, but still, what happens to them is the same that happens in the boardgame: geared for all, expensive, and good for nothing.

I still keep up the proposal for the Psilencer as an adition to the GK arsenal as a spreading damage anti-infantry weapon. Leave the psycannons to the Purgators so they can be the anti-vehicle (or something like that) unit, but allow the Strike Squads to perform a bit well in engagements against enemy infantry.
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Re: SS Performance

Postby HandSome SoddiNg » Sun 22 Jun, 2014 8:39 am

Aertes wrote:I still keep up the proposal for the Psilencer as an adition to the GK arsenal as a spreading damage anti-infantry weapon. Leave the psycannons to the Purgators so they can be the anti-vehicle (or something like that) unit, but allow the Strike Squads to perform a bit well in engagements against enemy infantry.


A Gatling Psilencer for SS , Tha'ts actually not a bad idea. Just don't like SS being a counterbalance to Melee/Range
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Re: SS Performance

Postby Kvek » Sun 22 Jun, 2014 9:51 am

the first guy who ever agreed with aertes on this forum
lel, SS are fine now, stop playing 3v3s and maybe you'll understand...
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Re: SS Performance

Postby Aertes » Sun 22 Jun, 2014 11:16 am

I didn't find the "1vs1 balance issues" thread so I put my opinions here.
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Re: SS Performance

Postby Black Relic » Sun 22 Jun, 2014 6:26 pm

Elite mod mainly uses 1v1 for balance.

I was watching indrids cast with the 2 SS with psy bolts and psy cannon and they were very effective. I was very surprised and I loved watching that replay.

If a interceptor squad was purchased for the krak nade instead purifiers. I wonder how that game would have played out.
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Re: SS Performance

Postby HandSome SoddiNg » Mon 23 Jun, 2014 6:03 am

Black Relic wrote:Elite mod mainly uses 1v1 for balance.

I was watching indrids cast with the 2 SS with psy bolts and psy cannon and they were very effective. I was very surprised and I loved watching that replay.

If a interceptor squad was purchased for the krak nade instead purifiers. I wonder how that game would have played out.


Getting 2 Justicars for SS was a mistake when u only needed one ,too much upkeep. He needed VA in the mixture ,Purifiers were a viable choice.
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Re: SS Performance

Postby Kvek » Mon 23 Jun, 2014 12:49 pm

Wow, making calls because of one casted game, wp
and Aertes, this game USES 1v1 for balance, you should know that since you put up so many threads already...
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Re: SS Performance

Postby saltychipmunk » Mon 23 Jun, 2014 1:44 pm

Ehh, they cost too much to get semi decent in ranged.

to be blunt they are too generalized.

They get good melee damage and a melee special.
but their non upgraded ranged dps is borderline ignorable

which is a fine trade off until you factor in the lack of melee charge .. or a way to get melee charge meaning outside of melee rushing a blob of weak ranged units in t1 their melee aspect is almost purely defensive.

they get the psi cannon , which in theory is a good damage everything weapon, but the weapon does piddly dps as sustained damage. And while that small dps can threaten light vehicles it comes at the cost of being ineffective at kiting and a joke to infantry which have much higher hp numbers than light tanks do.

the result is a weapon that isn't good at anything. for 25 power i want something more than a weapon that is merely average in all field.

finally their new upgrade psi bolts relies too much on the presence of the justicar.

if you dont have that justicar , then this T2 upgrade is weaker than the T1 upgrade that CSM get yet it costs more?

its a t2 upgrade why not just give them all plasma damage as a ranged damage their ranged dps is not huge anyway.

sure you can argue that it is *nice* that they do all these things , but really id much rather they have upgrades that do ONE thing well than all these spread out things that just don't do much.
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Re: SS Performance

Postby HandSome SoddiNg » Mon 23 Jun, 2014 1:58 pm

saltychipmunk wrote:Ehh, they cost too much to get semi decent in ranged.

to be blunt they are too generalized.
if you dont have that justicar , then this T2 upgrade is weaker than the T1 upgrade that CSM get yet it costs more?
its a t2 upgrade why not just give them all plasma damage as a ranged damage their ranged dps is not huge anyway.
sure you can argue that it is *nice* that they do all these things , but really id much rather they have upgrades that do ONE thing well than all these spread out things that just don't do much.


That's pretty much summarize up their role isn't it ,Generalized . Ya their psk-bolts is reliant on Justicar purchase only scales to 1.20 at lv4 ,but its not designed to be killy? . Their a sustainable squad,noway nohow can they beat TCSM in range superiority,let alone trying to tie up suffering inferno_pvp damage closing . If you want immense dps ,2 Purgator psy-cannons fulfills that
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Re: SS Performance

Postby saltychipmunk » Mon 23 Jun, 2014 2:12 pm

I don't have a huge problem with them being generalized , if it made economical sense . Sure keep them as this generalist average at everything unit , but don't break my bank doing it .

I'm all about efficiency , get enough to do the job you need.
there is nothing particularly efficient about the SS .
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Re: SS Performance

Postby Forestradio » Mon 23 Jun, 2014 2:53 pm

HandSome SoddiNg wrote:Getting 2 Justicars for SS was a mistake when u only needed one ,too much upkeep. He needed VA in the mixture ,Purifiers were a viable choice.


Yeah, those Justicars only helped focus down the warriors, wipe the venom brood, and kept the tyrant guard from regening health!

Anyway, I didn't get interceptors because while their krak grenade was finally fixed this patch (thank you to whoever did that) they're worse than purifiers in every way in t2 except for the snare. They do less damage, have less health, and don't really have the same punch that purifiers do when fighting the ravener alpha, AG warriors, or the tyrant guard. They also cost more req when fully upgraded: 640 req to 550, which delays upgrades on the BC, SS, and purgation.

I stayed in t2 hoping to win the game before Ace got the carnifex train going, and it didn't quite work out. But if anything, that cast shows that yes you can run a ranged Grey Knight army, and yes, Strike Squad are working wonderfully.
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Re: SS Performance

Postby HandSome SoddiNg » Mon 23 Jun, 2014 5:17 pm

GKI also a good choice in that particular situation great synergy w GK dread ,immediate disruption to VB from firing thus Only Temaguants will use crippling poison & Nemesis vortex was useful to counter-initiate . GKI ofc significantly weaker but better melee skill/setup combination of AV , Else GKI/Purifiers build composition works otherwise . 2 fully upgraded SS scales horribly to t3 ,bleeds economically worse then 2 ST as u can see . Insufficient population for Paladins/VA . There was room enough for Rhino ,but still have to micro that thing like mad vs 2 Fexes.
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Re: SS Performance

Postby Ar-Aamon » Mon 23 Jun, 2014 9:08 pm

Yeah they are fine no doubt but as HandSome pointed out they scale bad in T3. Given the fact that you have to build the Justicar to fully use their support abilities means that you already have 40 pop which is huge. The only viable build I see with double SS is with a Rhino and Purgations. With this composition you still can build Termis and a subcommander.
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Re: SS Performance

Postby Aertes » Mon 23 Jun, 2014 9:46 pm

I think Grey Knights Strike Squad should abbandon the attempt of being subtle. They are better than Tactical and non-mark Chaos Space Marines in all respects, why can't they actually be so and of course be more expensive?.

Just to keep them at a similar cost to the Tactical marines the SS have fallen into a sensless position from where they are no match for anyone. Their ridiculous ranged attack (for their cost) is a heavy stone on their shoulders. Having superior melee skill and a knockback special attack is already very good, if they just had a reduction in their melee damage and increase in their ranged damage (just in balance to Chaos Space marines) they could start to be a match against all other ranged basic units.
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Re: SS Performance

Postby Torpid » Mon 23 Jun, 2014 11:24 pm

They already are a match for any other basic ranged unit thanks to their heavy infantry armour, while also beating most t1 melee squads in melee.

Then in T2 when other squads get dedicated anti-infantry they specialise in a more supportive role while simultaneously laying down minor anti-infantry dps, not heavy infantry, anti-infantry. Getting two of them is overkill and a massive gamble. You're relying totally on the early game favouring you and if your opponent has any idea how to deal with SS then it won't and you've put the game in your opponent's hands for no reason.

Having the strike squad cost more than they do now would be very counter-productive as it would hugely gimp the GK t1 making it into an inevitable IST spam everytime and now IST got nerfed, that just won't work anymore.
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Re: SS Performance

Postby Forestradio » Mon 23 Jun, 2014 11:35 pm

HandSome SoddiNg wrote:GKI also a good choice in that particular situation great synergy w GK dread ,immediate disruption to VB from firing

With a Brother Captain around, your Dreadnought has no excuse to ever be hit by ranged AV weapons.

HandSome SoddiNg wrote:GKI ofc significantly weaker but better melee skill

Interceptors have better melee skill than Purifiers and Strike Squad? Since when?

HandSome SoddiNg wrote:2 fully upgraded SS scales horribly to t3 ,bleeds economically worse then 2 ST as u can see.

No, I didn't see it. I hardly lost any SS models. And explain to me how a unit that can do special attacks, has both plasma_pvp and explosive_pvp ranged damage, melee resistance aura, 70 melee skill, energy drain, and energy restoration scales badly.

HandSome SoddiNg wrote:There was room enough for Rhino

No there wasn't. I was at 97 popcap. A rhino is a lot more than 3 population.

Ar-Aamon wrote:The only viable build I see with double SS is with a Rhino and Purgations.

I think the game I just sent to Indrid already disproved this.

Aertes wrote: Grey Knights Strike Squad should abbandon the attempt of being subtle. They are better than Tactical and non-mark Chaos Space Marines in all respects, why can't they actually be so and of course be more expensive

No, they aren't better than Tacs/CSM in all respects, and they shouldn't be. And no, let's not have 500 req strike squads again.

Aertes wrote:Just to keep them at a similar cost to the Tactical marines the SS have fallen into a sensless position from where they are no match for anyone.

*Strike Squad ranged damage modifiers increased from 1.0/1.05/1.10/1.16 to 1.0/1.07/1.14/1.20 (at level 1/2/3/4)
*Nemesis Focus on Strike Squad has been removed and replaced by Psybolts Ammunition - Improves the ranged damage of the squad by 15% and changes the Justicar damage from piercing_pvp to plasma_pvp
*Strike Squad "Energy Burst" cooldown decreased from 120 to 80 seconds
*Strike Squad Justicar melee damage increased from 40 to 45

This unit got 4 buffs last patch and still isn't a match for anyone? o_O

Aertes wrote:Their ridiculous ranged attack (for their cost) is a heavy stone on their shoulders.

They do more damage than vanilla CSM (without EW), how is their ranged attack ridiculous?

Aertes wrote: Having superior melee skill and a knockback special attack is already very good, if they just had a reduction in their melee damage and increase in their ranged damage (just in balance to Chaos Space marines) they could be a match against all other ranged basic units.

Their melee damage is fine, you can't compare them to CSM, for example CSM only get worship support and that's pretty much it throughout the game, whereas SS get WATH and a bazillion other awesome buffs like shrouding, mind blades, etc.

And they are more than a match against basic ranged units like shootas, termas, and DAs.
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Re: SS Performance

Postby Black Relic » Tue 24 Jun, 2014 12:26 am

Radio the Forest wrote:
HandSome SoddiNg wrote:GKI also a good choice in that particular situation great synergy w GK dread ,immediate disruption to VB from firing

With a Brother Captain around, your Dreadnought has no excuse to ever be hit by ranged AV weapons.

HandSome SoddiNg wrote:GKI ofc significantly weaker but better melee skill

Interceptors have better melee skill than Purifiers and Strike Squad? Since when?

HandSome SoddiNg wrote:2 fully upgraded SS scales horribly to t3 ,bleeds economically worse then 2 ST as u can see.

No, I didn't see it. I hardly lost any SS models. And explain to me how a unit that can do special attacks, has both plasma_pvp and explosive_pvp ranged damage, melee resistance aura, 70 melee skill, energy drain, and energy restoration scales badly.

HandSome SoddiNg wrote:There was room enough for Rhino

No there wasn't. I was at 97 popcap. A rhino is a lot more than 3 population.

Ar-Aamon wrote:The only viable build I see with double SS is with a Rhino and Purgations.

I think the game I just sent to Indrid already disproved this.

Aertes wrote: Grey Knights Strike Squad should abbandon the attempt of being subtle. They are better than Tactical and non-mark Chaos Space Marines in all respects, why can't they actually be so and of course be more expensive

No, they aren't better than Tacs/CSM in all respects, and they shouldn't be. And no, let's not have 500 req strike squads again.

Aertes wrote:Just to keep them at a similar cost to the Tactical marines the SS have fallen into a sensless position from where they are no match for anyone.

*Strike Squad ranged damage modifiers increased from 1.0/1.05/1.10/1.16 to 1.0/1.07/1.14/1.20 (at level 1/2/3/4)
*Nemesis Focus on Strike Squad has been removed and replaced by Psybolts Ammunition - Improves the ranged damage of the squad by 15% and changes the Justicar damage from piercing_pvp to plasma_pvp
*Strike Squad "Energy Burst" cooldown decreased from 120 to 80 seconds
*Strike Squad Justicar melee damage increased from 40 to 45

This unit got 4 buffs last patch and still isn't a match for anyone? o_O

Aertes wrote:Their ridiculous ranged attack (for their cost) is a heavy stone on their shoulders.

They do more damage than vanilla CSM (without EW), how is their ranged attack ridiculous?

Aertes wrote: Having superior melee skill and a knockback special attack is already very good, if they just had a reduction in their melee damage and increase in their ranged damage (just in balance to Chaos Space marines) they could be a match against all other ranged basic units.

Their melee damage is fine, you can't compare them to CSM, for example CSM only get worship support and that's pretty much it throughout the game, whereas SS get WATH and a bazillion other awesome buffs like shrouding, mind blades, etc.

And they are more than a match against basic ranged units like shootas, termas, and DAs.


Well said. I tried out 2 SS today and I liked it alot.

This has been waning for a while now. IST pop cost. I dont think the pop cost should be 2 per member. That seems a little to much. How ever any lower would be to powerful if the pop cost of their serg stayed the same. So I propose a reduction the IST pop cost to 1 and their serg pop cost increased to 4 or 5. My reasoning is that GK always seems to be always lacking that one unit or squad that could change the game. And its because of pop is too high by 3 or 2 to get out a desired unit. This is me talking for additional luxury for GK but what to others think?
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Re: SS Performance

Postby HandSome SoddiNg » Tue 24 Jun, 2014 6:12 am

Radio the Forest wrote:
HandSome SoddiNg wrote:GKI also a good choice in that particular situation great synergy w GK dread ,immediate disruption to VB from firing

With a Brother Captain around, your Dreadnought has no excuse to ever be hit by ranged AV weapons.

Tha'ts if he can reach the AV squad in time & try to tie em up with all the melee units around

HandSome SoddiNg wrote:GKI ofc significantly weaker but better melee skill

Interceptors have better melee skill than Purifiers and Strike Squad? Since when?

then Purifiers unless buffed by MB....SS not anymore

HandSome SoddiNg wrote:2 fully upgraded SS scales horribly to t3 ,bleeds economically worse then 2 ST as u can see.

No, I didn't see it. I hardly lost any SS models. And explain to me how a unit that can do special attacks, has both plasma_pvp and explosive_pvp ranged damage, melee resistance aura, 70 melee skill, energy drain, and energy restoration scales badly.

Tha'ts cause you're lucky enough to survive an AOE blast from a Barged straggler Fex,that thing hurts HI/LI tons . Still don't get why SS should have melee skill 70,their just gonna participate in battle by contributing energy ? I meant 2 Justicars prevents u from chugging out Vital AV units like Paladins/VA in time out in time since FWS greatly supports Paladins .
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Re: SS Performance

Postby HandSome SoddiNg » Tue 24 Jun, 2014 6:27 am

That Torpid Gamer wrote:They already are a match for any other basic ranged unit thanks to their heavy infantry armour, while also beating most t1 melee squads in melee.

Then in T2 when other squads get dedicated anti-infantry they specialise in a more supportive role while simultaneously laying down minor anti-infantry dps, not heavy infantry, anti-infantry. Getting two of them is overkill and a massive gamble. You're relying totally on the early game favouring you and if your opponent has any idea how to deal with SS then it won't and you've put the game in your opponent's hands for no reason.

Having the strike squad cost more than they do now would be very counter-productive as it would hugely gimp the GK t1 making it into an inevitable IST spam everytime and now IST got nerfed, that just won't work anymore.



Why can't SS be Specialize in Anti-infantry ranged department More while being a Supportive role on the battlefield ? i get the Uniqueness that all 3 unit types represents - TCSM/Tacs/SS . It is a gamble if your opponent rushes a BC and you have 2 SS without any AV to back em up,getting a rhino is applicable now since its vastly improved sorta Miniaturize Tank . Thank god IST spam is nerfed,they were ridiculously with those GL & WATH
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Re: SS Performance

Postby Aertes » Tue 24 Jun, 2014 7:41 am

Black Relic wrote:They do more damage than vanilla CSM (without EW), how is their ranged attack ridiculous?


No, they don't. Their storm bolter deal 13 dph and Chaos space marines' bolter deal 23. Chaos space marine deal almost double ranged dph. That's how.

GK Strike Squad are supposed to be superior. If the mod creators want to change their role that's up to them, but the current result is a unit that can only match flagrant inferiors and is no match for their supposed equals.
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Re: SS Performance

Postby Indrid » Tue 24 Jun, 2014 8:05 am

DPS is the important stat for bolters, not DPH.

CSM do 13.42 DPS, SS do 13.68 DPS.
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Re: SS Performance

Postby Aertes » Tue 24 Jun, 2014 9:21 am

I still don't see it as a significant superiority for +50 R. Then with the upgrades SS will be no match against upgraded CSM in any way, even CSM T1 Eteral War upgrade increase their damage for 5% more than SS's T2 Psybolt Ammunition, and by T2 the CSM will be dealing inferno damage with their bolters while the SS special ability drains energy from a unit that doesn't use it.

I still think SS are being given too much credit for their melee capacity, which is mainly defensive since their move speed and lack of charge movement, as someone said before, makes it hard for them to chase and hunt an enemy that doesn't want to be engaged in melee, and that is insufficient against melee specialists.

SS are supposed to be as competent as Tactical marines in ranged combat and as competent as a SM sergeant in melee.
In fact they are supposed to be more competent than the mentioned, but for game purpose that should be enough.

GK are not just another space marine chapter, even Chaos space marines are more similar to space marines than the grey knights are. If that could be represented with superior abilities and a +25 to +50 R cost, the only reason i could see not to do so is keeping a "balance" that is just not working.
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Re: SS Performance

Postby Ar-Aamon » Tue 24 Jun, 2014 9:22 am

Radio the Forest wrote: No, I didn't see it. I hardly lost any SS models. And explain to me how a unit that can do special attacks, has both plasma_pvp and explosive_pvp ranged damage, melee resistance aura, 70 melee skill, energy drain, and energy restoration scales badly.


The unit itself is great. The problem is if you build two of them.

Radio the Forest wrote:
HandSome SoddiNg wrote:There was room enough for Rhino

No there wasn't. I was at 97 popcap. A rhino is a lot more than 3 population.


See that's what I mean. SS is only soft-AV. If you build 2 of them you have to invest in AV.
Ar-Aamon wrote:The only viable build I see with double SS is with a Rhino and Purgations.


Radio the Forest wrote:
I think the game I just sent to Indrid already disproved this.

I think this proves that double SS allows you to heavy pressure your opponent in T1. Once T2 kicks in you will have trouble. To be fair against a Nid player my suggested build doesn't work because TG. Nonetheless you played great.
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Re: SS Performance

Postby Indrid » Tue 24 Jun, 2014 9:57 am

Stop comparing them directly to CSM Aertes, it makes no sense. You seem to think a unit is worse than another if it loses in a fight against it. What kind of reasoning is that? You say the "balance is not working" but your only argument is that TCSM will beat them in a 1v1 fight? I don't get it.

SS have more HP, ranged and melee damage out the gate. They can be upgraded to act as a support unit and deal three types of ranged damage. They are designed as a completely different animal to CSM to complement a completely different roster.

I certainly don't think SS are under-performing at the moment, I just personally think a double SS build is a bit risky compositionally into T3 but not unworkable by any means.
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Re: SS Performance

Postby Lost Son of Nikhel » Tue 24 Jun, 2014 10:16 am

Indrid wrote:I certainly don't think SS are under-performing at the moment, I just personally think a double SS build is a bit risky compositionally into T3 but not unworkable by any means.

This. With the GK Dread weapon change and the new Melee Resistance walkers, 2 x SS it's very risky.
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