SS Performance

[HandSome SoddiNg]

More than increase their ranged damage, I will decrease a bit the cost of PsyBolt ammunition upgrade or decrease a bit the coldown of the two abilities. If you want turn them into an (even) more specialized ranged damage squad the 70 melee skill and the special attack abilities should go.

This This right Here +1,making em deal more specialized range dps would only make psk-bolts expensive not cheaper,70 MS tone it down.

and then we are back to the argument about their over generalized roll.

and to correct you , SS do not have abilities. SS + a mandatory 5 pop justicar have abilities.
Why must everyone who argues that SS are fine assume everyone wants a 20 pop squad ?

Why are so many people OK with the justicar being borderline mandatory ?

AND i already suggested that the psi bolts upgrade could be replaced with something that affected the SS abilities.
Only once again it would be yet another upgrade that is almost completely dependent on the justicars presence

the psy bolts upgrade gives both abilities. in addition to what it already does. its cost is brought up to 125 , 25 or something.
The justicar reduces cool downs of said upgrades. (in addition to getting the plasma damage)

we remove the psy-cannon.

and make the SS ranged damage scale slightly better over levels .

OR

you have one ability on the psybolts and one on the justicar.

TCSM cost 125/30 ,so roughly round that price?
80 second CD on EB/Purification can be used multiple times ,the max they can do is 1.2 at lv4. Justicar will be the only model dealing Plasma damage,rest piercing . . But,i say Psycannons can "Go", it be just be Justicar & Pskbolt upgrades for SS in T2 except Psk-bolt ammo is slightly more expensive ,their MS has to be toned down for more firepower in range. Can't say for certain till Caeltos decides what to do with em.

[Sub_Zero]

SS don't need these weapon upgrades. Both of these roles (flamers and AV) purgation squads should do only. Give them more abilities. Does anyone remember how strike squad members could charge in Dawn of War 1? The upgrade was needed for that if I am not mistaken. What about bringing it back? Does anyone know that silly looking guardians' leaders can knock down tons of models if you command them to force melee combat? What about giving this trait to SS' justicars? But it only becomes available when <insert name of the new ability> activated. So we give them their DOW1 ability to charge down ranged squads. The ability also increases their speed. What is this ability for? To counter ranged squads that they can't beat in ranged stance. I really don't see them as a ranged squad with those halberds. If you want to improve their ranged power then get rid of the melee skill and melee damage. Otherwise they are not justified dealing more damage at range. Currently I think that psy-bolts are not worth getting at all. The difference is barely noticeable. I can't believe that the justicar does plasma damage. He definitely does not.

[saltychipmunk]

Well this is an issue I brought up earlier ,

adding a flat ranged dps upgrade on a unit that doesn't really do ranged damage well wont really feel like it does anything ever.

hence why people are now suggesting the psy bolts do something that involves an active ability rather than a flat dps boost.

[HandSome SoddiNg]

If you want to improve their ranged power then get rid of the melee skill and melee damage. Otherwise they are not justified dealing more damage at range. Currently I think that psy-bolts are not worth getting at all. The difference is barely noticeable. I can't believe that the justicar does plasma damage. He definitely does not.

Tone down MS/Melee damage,they certainly don't need that much late game. They need more firepower,yes Justicar's doing plasma gun pvp dps 15%,it was barely noticeable. you only can see the damage showing at lv3/4 .

Well this is an issue I brought up earlier ,
adding a flat ranged dps upgrade on a unit that doesn't really do ranged damage well wont really feel like it does anything ever.
hence why people are now suggesting the psy bolts do something that involves an active ability rather than a flat dps boost.

Why u want it to be an active ability? Flat out dps is better, its Psk-bolts "Ammo" afterall, i get their Psykers . Really we need GK to edge out more in range-firefights,they have sufficient melee units in their roasters alry.
SS gets better range damage output ,A sacrifice for toning down MS greatly .

[Aertes]

SS don't need these weapon upgrades. Both of these roles (flamers and AV) purgation squads should do only. Give them more abilities. Does anyone remember how strike squad members could charge in Dawn of War 1? The upgrade was needed for that if I am not mistaken. What about bringing it back?

That was one of the ideas I spoke about earlier, bringing the Nemesis Focus upgrade back as a melee counterpart to the Psybolt Ammunition, making both of them excluding (you choose one or the other) and of course, making both of them really useful. Let the SS start with normal melee skill and the Justicar with melee damage (cost reduction), and when you upgrade them with nemesis focus, it increases their melee skill, activate a charge move capacity and change the Justicar melee damage to power melee damage.

I also agree with the idea of removing the ranged weapons from SS and leave them to the Purgators.

[Raffa]

Just pointing out it is utterly retarded to think there is any chance SS will lose their weapon upgrades. It is even more retarded to suggest they start with a Justicar.

[Sub_Zero]

No need to be that spiky, mah dog.

There are 3 units with flamers in T1. I would say that this is utterly retarded. No other race has such a thing. Is that an exclusive benefit of the race? A weird one I would say.

And that psy cannon is just bad. I would remove that completely or rework. But as it stands now - low damage, no damage on the move, no burst damage, decreasing melee capabilities of the member who wields it, disappears sometimes (is it a bug?). You can argue that it is an anti-everything weapon. Yeah, no denials here, the weapon can damage all targets. But the weapon is not good at dealing with neither of them.

[HandSome SoddiNg]

No need to be that spiky, mah dog.

There are 3 units with flamers in T1. I would say that this is utterly retarded. No other race has such a thing. Is that an exclusive benefit of the race? A weird one I would say.

And that psy cannon is just bad. I would remove that completely or rework. But as it stands now - low damage, no damage on the move, no burst damage, decreasing melee capabilities of the member who wields it, disappears sometimes (is it a bug?). You can argue that it is an anti-everything weapon. Yeah, no denials here, the weapon can damage all targets. But the weapon is not good at dealing with neither of them.

You Deserve a Cookie +1

[Raffa]

Put simply, there is no reason to redesign them, because frankly there's nothing wrong with them and they're in a good spot. Psycannon is not 'bad either', it's on a generic anti-all squad for God's sake it's not meant to be ridonculously strong.

Sorry don't mean to be rude (means I'm gonna be rude, luls) but until someone who knows what they're talking about says otherwise, it's unrealistic to expect Torpid, Forest, Ace, me or anyone else at that level to change opinion given we have such concrete views on this.

/I'm out too

[HandSome SoddiNg]

Atm, the psycannon is "bugged" in where it disappear after i purchase psk-bolts . What i don't understand why not just leave this Small-AOE burst weapon to Terminators only? With psy-cannons,SS have no killing potential while chasing

[Kvek]

buff suggestion
+1
another buff suggestion
+1
could you stop with this sod, everytime someone says something about gk being bad you just go ahead and say that he's right, and i have a feeling you both are completely ignoring what Raffa says