Thoughts on Melee Resistance Aura in Melee Walkers/Monsters

[BaptismByLoli]

Let's me try to be concise here while sticking to the point.failed

It's been a day now and I've played around 10 games or so of 2.3 already and I'd like to know what are people's thought on this huge change for walkers.

Maybe it's just me but lately, I'm starting to see some players just staying T2 and pumping out those melee walkers and pair them up with disrupting units like ASM's or Rangers etc or even worse, get those Ven Dreads out in T3.

Now I know some people will counter this by saying that we should just get snaring units like Haywires or Lascannon and such but seeing a Wraithlord with half health engaging Nobs under the effects of 'Ard Boyz at around 3/4 health and almost coming out on top really makes me question this decision. If Nobz under 'Ard Boyz have difficulty against a Wraithlord, just think what will happen when their up against T3 Nids or SM Dreads.

I think the only 'safe' way for Orks to tackle Walkers is with either Beamy Lootas or Tankbustas

And this is just looking at Orks, not other races like how Eldar or IG are supposed to counter a Walker. Easiest counter for IG were Ogryns cause of how tanky they were and were able to do good damage. Furthermore, though they cn be disrupted they have an ability that increases their speed once they get up. Now, with all 4 models doing 40% less damage and getting hit by Heavy Melee Splash Damage, Set-up teams seem the more reliable way that will cause less bleed. However, they can easily be countered and other AV sources like Stormtroopers are fragile. Only solution I can think is getting 2 Set-up teams or so. Eldar AV has lacks snaring, in fact I think the only vehicle snaring unit they have is are Warp Spiders. As this is the only way for them to control a melee walker, chances are most players will already prepare themselves for a that Haywire to come once their Walkers have hit the field. And getting the Singing Spear or Powerblades on my Commanders now seems like a stupid thing to do unless I'm hunting transports since A) It's just 1 model using that Heavy Melee that's getting its damage reduces for 40% B) Their fragile, unless their finishing off battered walkers of course.

Basically, I feel that Ogryns have now become useless in favor of the more easily countered Lascannon HWT or Melta Stormtroopers, Heavy Melee on Commanders is now useless unless it has an awesome ability like FoS or None Shall Fall, Aspect Of Strength Banshee ans Raptor AC are now only good at hunting Transports and wont even make be able to harass or chase down heavily damaged walkers since it's only 1 model with that Heavy Melee weapon.

I know this decision was to reignite the fear of having your melee blob seeing a melee walker but when Nob barely win against a Wraithlord, I don't want to imagine what charging Carnifexes or Dreads can do to Nobz and Ogryns etc

Maybe decrease the percentage to 10% instead of 40% or something?

Thoughts? Arguments? Suggestions?

[David-CZ]

Is the 'in melee combat' damage resistence part of the aura or is it separate and has always been present? At one point it looked like the walker was resistant to ranged attacks as well, but it's more likely just the overall toughness I'm not used to.

Regarding the OP it's too soon for me to make any conclusions yet but I think the percentage will have to be adjusted eventually. 40% is quite a lot after all.

[Phantom Revenger]

Is the 'in melee combat' damage resistence part of the aura or is it separate and has always been present? At one point it looked like the walker was resistant to ranged attacks as well, but it's more likely just the overall toughness I'm not used to.

Regarding the OP it's too soon for me to make any conclusions yet but I think the percentage will have to be adjusted eventually. 40% is quite a lot after all.

Bit weird that this is my first post, but even in retail, melee resistance aura only affects melee damage. That's all the aura is, 40% less melee damage taken.

I'll need to play more 2.3 myself and possibly watch some more casts before I can really decide (might be an excuse to finally stop playing the AI and start playing against real people).

[Ace of Swords]

Easiest counter for IG were Ogryns cause of how tanky they were and were able to do good damage

Are you joking, who would get ogryns to deal with a melee dred, how many times to we have to get over IG AV?
This is what, the 4th, 5th time?

The same goes for eldar, they have ALOT of AV and FYI if the opponent gets a non-melee variant of the dred you can still use heavy melee as before, except in the case of the WL.

Caeltos also made that clear, melee walkers, which were supposed to counter melee could get utterely raped by a single banshee squad, now you have to cleary use ranged AV vs melee walker, but heavy melee can still follow up and it will still be a full counter to ranged walkers.

[BaptismByLoli]

Melta Storms/Lascannon + Ogryns = Dead Dread
And I never said IG AV was terrible .. I just said that Melee Walkers will now be a bigger headache for IG

[Ace of Swords]

But they never ever were, walkers go down in 4-5 shots of IG lascannons, then you have the ml sent, then you have hero av etc, a melee walker vs IG is pure suicide and it still is.

[Swift]

Is it such a bad thing though? I don't think it is. Quite frankly Ogryns were poor at dealing with melee walkers before so not much there that is very controversial. As far as I am concerned, I think this is probably a good thing, forcing those who go for a build like that to counter walkers to innovate more, get out the stormtroopers with meltaguns and give them a go, because I only use Ogryns if my enemy gets a transport, so that a unit like Ogryns can chase it around, maybe have a lascannon snare it and they finish it off, but I would never send it against a melee walker, they do so much damage compared to Ogryns.

I think that seeing less of Ogryns will be more interesting as they often seem like the vanilla way to play, so why not change it round, and if it annoys more people, well, this is what the first 2.3 build is for.

[BaptismByLoli]

Maybe the changes feel a bit overwhelming for me and I still need time to adjust to see how things play out. Time will tell.

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[Forestradio]

Both the Venerable Dread and the Thornback fex are completely unkillable for Grey Knights with melee resistance.

And before you scream OMG VINDICARE ASSASSIN SO GUD, please, think about what you are saying.

[Bahamut]

sounds like you should learn how to play other races before QQing for whatever reason about GK not being a cake walk

Anyway, DD and WL with BL are still fishy IMO with melee resist. DD is way too cheap and fast to get it and if you think about it, a dread with AC has 63? range dps, same as the WL with shuriken cannon.. but in exchange for the barrage the WL is also keeping the splash AND the melee resist :/

[Forestradio]

sounds like you should learn how to play other races before QQing for whatever reason about GK not being a cake walk

Lulz.

Paladins do 60 dps to thornback and ven dread right now after the 0.5 modifier melee heavy has vs vehicle armor and and the melee resist aura is applied. 72 dps with mind blades. Melta dread was removed entirely for no good reason at all, librarian lost purge entirely for no good reason at all, but mark target+plasma gun is fine, amirite? Cuz SM have no OP things, amirite?

But sure, give me a replay where you beat a TM/nids player with GK where the game goes to t3. Maybe then I'll change my opinion.

[Torpid]

sounds like you should learn how to play other races before QQing for whatever reason about GK not being a cake walk

But sure, give me a replay where you beat a TM/nids player with GK where the game goes to t3. Maybe then I'll change my opinion.

RedBeardTMvsTorpidGK.rec

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Might not count though since despite it going to T3 for me, the SM never got to T3

Maybe that's one way of getting around this. Overall though I think the TM does own GK. It doesn't really matter whether he goes for libby+ranged TM or just melee TM and dreadnoughts, it's very hard to deal with. His bolter does way too much work vs IST in t1, that's what makes him so much tougher than the apo/fc, that damn bolter causing bleed. Then again, I'm mainly getting this from todays games I played and as of late my micro has been abysmal so I'll have to come back in about a month to give a proper opinion once I can play DOW properly again.

TL;DR - GK are pretty solid right now and I love it.

[BaptismByLoli]

My Wraithlord takes on 3 Bloodcrushers at around the 12+ minute mark or so. Takes out 1 and almost takes out the other before dying.

Really makes me think the 40% resistance is a bit too much and needs tweaking/adjustments

[Lag]

But sure, give me a replay where you beat a TM/nids player with GK where the game goes to t3. Maybe then I'll change my opinion.

Might not count though since despite it going to T3 for me, the SM never got to T3

[BaptismByLoli]

^
Mind blown? Don't understand that

[Forestradio]

GK dread is currently trolling everything in sight and needs to be looked at. Knockback on Maelstorm needs to go. And its damage seems waaaaay more than a khorne dread or sm melee dread. Is it actually using ven dread weapons? Because the codex says it does the same damage as the other two.......

[HandSome SoddiNg]

GK dread is currently trolling everything in sight and needs to be looked at. Knockback on Maelstorm needs to go. And its damage seems waaaaay more than a khorne dread or sm melee dread. Is it actually using ven dread weapons? Because the codex says it does the same damage as the other two.......

Maelstrom doesn't need removal.. Previously it slow units and didn't do a whole lot and destroyed by Melee Nobz/Paladins easily etc . Now it does KB which is gud for an escape mechanism . GK dread claws has the deadliest melee walker claws 2nd to Khorne & Venerable Dreads ,so?
Wouldn't mind toning down Melee resistance to slight 30% or 35% ,TB Carnifex are extremely durable now :0

[Swift]

He is not saying it needs removal, he is saying the knockback is unreasonable. About the Bloodcrusher, it shouldn't be there to chase off other walkers, it never did that. Ok, you get a Bloodcrusher to have early vehicle pressure but don't expect it to stand up to a walker, just keep it for beating up infantry and charging at transports like it does best. You can always just get out a cheap lascannon after and worship the crusher, that is always a good way to go, though bearing in mind it is still a lot of units diverted to one thing.

[BaptismByLoli]

You can't beat around the bush here. The question is not how the walker should have been tackled but rather, if this is something that people should just close eye and accept the 40% resistance. Yes he could have gotten PM's or Lascannons but this... Tanking 3 BC's is just too much

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[Torpid]

40% probably is too high. 25% might be a better statistic. The TB Fex is pretty silly atm.

[ChrisNihilus]

I think the 40% melee resistance is awesome.

If the problem is Carnifex, that is a little too strong, that can easily be nerfed in other ways.
I like how it is a force in melee combat, maybe a reduction in hp can compensate for it.

For the BloodCrusher, i think it should have the melee resistance too.
If it comes in play far too early to have it, maybe it could be added by as an upgrade.
It will be not the first time we talk about an upgrade for the BC, this could be the perfect occasion to add one.

[Broodwich]

I agree on just adjusting the fex, I'm really liking the walker change. As frozen said yesterday "it's like I'm playing a different game"

I'm loving it

[saltychipmunk]

its about time they got melee resistance , now they actually have something that makes them something more than a predator with claws and no main gun.

[Lichtbringer]

Not that its really a balanceconcern, but I just wanted to throw out, that if 2 melee walkers battle it out now, repairs play a huuuuuge role^^. Its not really that important, because you should (:D) have support units who can force off enemy repairs, but for example the techmarine has a selfrepair global or smth?

[Black Relic]

^ I'm sorry bro but I can't understand your question. Can you rephrase please?

[Ar-Aamon]

He is concerned about the Techmarine's self repair global when 2 melee walkers fight each other.

[Tex]

That has always been an inherent advantage of playing the techmarine and baiting your opponent into building a walker.