Eversor Assassin - Feedback required

[Indrid]

Having the Librarian promoted to a comm slot and the two assassins as sub-comms would be a cool solution and pretty fluffy, but it's whether Caeltos has any interest in that.

I don't really like the idea of GK having two fat comms that crush things though. Perhaps the model guys could make a new power-armoured Lib with all the bits from the Terminator Lib, and give him normal marine animations. It would differentiate him from the SM Lib and I also personally think the Sorc/Lib animations are terrible.

[Ar-Aamon]

Well GK are known for having a lot of Terminator Armor and GK Libby has a great model so please let him be as he is. But I go along with you that 2 crushing commander would be one-dimensional. Well the solution is simple: Adjust the speed and hp and don't make him crush walls etc et voilà here you have the new Terminator Librarian

[Orkfaeller]

Assassins are still pretty far from Spess.

Well atleast in the TT

humans got
Weaponskill 3, Ballisticskill 3, Strenght 3, Toughness 3, Initiative 3

Space Marines:
Weaponskill 4( -6), Ballisticskill 4( - 6), Strenght 4, Toughness 4, Initiative 4

and Assassins:
Weaponskill 8, Ballisticskill 8, Strenght 4, Toughness 4, Initiative 7

And in the Space Wolf Novels they got a Eversor taking on a couple of Space Wolves head on, breaking one's arm through his Power Armour if I remember correctly. They really dont have to shy away from Marines.

p and don't make him crush walls etc et voilà here you have the new Terminator Librarian

No, just no. All Terminators crush in this game, why wouldnt this one?

[Caeltos]

One thing to consider is that Eversor Assassins in particular are extremely genetically modified to the extreme and infused with a large doze of combat drugs that excellerate their performance, in exchange for their sanity to some part.

The downside is of course, being somewhat of a living bomb, and somewhat unstable. Hench if their internal organs would seize to stop working, or if they are not propertly indused with drugs, they would seize to function and go kaboom.

I believe they have 2x hearts as well, similiar to that of a Space Marine, but the rest of the organs, I'm uncertain of. They really are a match of a Space Marine, potentially even more of a fight - but I don't think it would be wise to have a large quantities of these, since they're probably abit expensive to keep up in "maintence" in the long run, compared to that of a more potential sane Space Marine that is loyal and not neccassarily dependant on being dosed with drugs.

[Ar-Aamon]

No, just no. All Terminators crush in this game, why wouldnt this one?

For the gameplay reasons?! For diversity?! I don't see the problem here.

And of course Assassins have a good profil in TT. They are a single entity and if you want them to have some impact you have to give them a profil above a single SM. But it doesn't mean that they are that much better than a SM. You see it's the same with a non-crushing Terminator: gameplay first

[L0thar]

I think it's for the best if we leave the commander = leader mindset. Even the current commanders makes much more sense if we view them simply as heroes.

So...on the Eversor. Frankly, all of mentioned options could work.

Having the Eversor on the same level as Vindicare (and maybe pushing GK libby to commander status) have it's perks. It differentiates GK from SM, which both races need. It opens the door for implementation of the rest of assassins. It's the best solution in a narrow, only at assassins focused view. But in the bigger picture, looking at a whole GK race, it shows flaws. As Indrid mentioned, I don't really want to see GK having two slow crushing commanders which can whack stuff and cast spells. It would also require quite a big overhaul.

Eversor as a hero is much more easily implemented. And eventhough it's definitely not my favourite assassin, I could see him become very interesting and unique hero. I don't think there is any other hero in the game which could be classified as a shock troop. I can also see him having a great synergy with Libby's Shrouding. Because of it, I like the hero (commander) option a little bit more.

Regardless of implementation, I got an idea about the drop pod mechanic. Ability similar to Autarch's Skyleap. The Eversor would "disappear" for some energy cost and then he could be called back in via a global ability for some red (with all sorts of associated effects).

SMA = Spore Mine Alpha

I have no interactions with that.

Not sure if it's a serious thing...but now I can see where did the "mechanics that no other commander has" come from, lol.

[Lulgrim]

Wat they are like little baby Spess... SM also get super reflexes and rage plus another dozen extra organs, centuries of experience, and they're twice as big.

In Nemesis the Imperium's best Eversor barely "killed" a random Spess after ambushing him and his Callidus friend shooting the Spess (later the Callidus had to again headshot the Spess when he was getting back up).

In gameplay, an Eversor should be pretty dangerous and threaten most SM units, of course.

[Aertes]

I believe they have 2x hearts as well, similiar to that of a Space Marine, but the rest of the organs, I'm uncertain of. They really are a match of a Space Marine, potentially even more of a fight - but I don't think it would be wise to have a large quantities of these, since they're probably abit expensive to keep up in "maintence" in the long run, compared to that of a more potential sane Space Marine that is loyal and not neccassarily dependant on being dosed with drugs.

No Caeltos, and I can tell you this very acurately. Space marine's aditional organs and implants are very exclusive for themselves. Their modifications are not just considered as enhancementes of the human soldier, but a sacred communnion with their Primarch and the Emperor himself. The idea that Assassins would have such genetic material in their body is sacriledge.

In fact, that's why the Assassins, and some Inquisitors, IG high officers and such, must be enhanced with drugs, Juvenat Processes and other extreme methods, because Progenoid organs are for the Adeptus Astartes only.

Again, I repeat my support to the idea of having the GK Librarian promoted to be the GK's second Hero otion, and use his T2 slot for this Eversor Assassin.
Keeping the two remaining assassins, Culexus and Callidus, for a possible Sisters of Battle army would be a great idea, they fit the background of the Ordo hereticus greatly. Sisters of battle shouldn't be difficult to implement, they can use most of the Space marine animations (slightly reduced scale, if possible) and the Chaos heretics as base for the Red Redemptionists cult.

[Caeltos]

I believe they have 2x hearts as well, similiar to that of a Space Marine, but the rest of the organs, I'm uncertain of. They really are a match of a Space Marine, potentially even more of a fight - but I don't think it would be wise to have a large quantities of these, since they're probably abit expensive to keep up in "maintence" in the long run, compared to that of a more potential sane Space Marine that is loyal and not neccassarily dependant on being dosed with drugs.

No Caeltos, and I can tell you this very acurately. Space marine's aditional organs and implants are very exclusive for themselves. Their modifications are not just considered as enhancementes of the human soldier, but a sacred communnion with their Primarch and the Emperor himself. The idea that Assassins would have such genetic material in their body is sacriledge.

In fact, that's why the Assassins, and some Inquisitors, IG high officers and such, must be enhanced with drugs, Juvenat Processes and other extreme methods, because Progenoid organs are for the Adeptus Astartes only.

Again, I repeat my support to the idea of having the GK Librarian promoted to be the GK's second Hero otion, and use his T2 slot for this Eversor Assassin.
Keeping the two remaining assassins, Culexus and Callidus, for a possible Sisters of Battle army would be a great idea, they fit the background of the Ordo hereticus greatly. Sisters of battle shouldn't be difficult to implement, they can use most of the Space marine animations (slightly reduced scale, if possible) and the Chaos heretics as base for the Red Redemptionists cult.

Eversor Assassins are the most gruesome products of the Officio Assassinorum. They are drug crazed killing monsters, enhanced by bio-engineering and experimental surgical procedures. Their state of mind is amplified to turn a mere dislike for the enemy into raging hatred, or the wish to serve the Imperium into suicidal determination.

These psychotic assassins are trained to be utterly ruthless and completely dedicated to the Imperium. In addition, specialized use of genetics and human biology result in the Eversors' modification to be more efficient killers making them almost superhuman. Their bodies are modified to make them superb killing machines and include augmentations that strain the limits of their human physiology through the use of bionics and genetic alterations; the assassin is implanted with adrenal ducts, which speed up the brain's higher functions, allowing the Eversor to make complex calculations and tactical decisions in seconds. The adrenal ducts are also able to feed the brain, allowing the assassin to work briefly in a hard vacuum. In addition, a secondary heart is implanted in order to help the assassin's body cope with the various changes and to act as a fail-safe in case the primary heart is damaged in combat.

[BaptismByLoli]

Well this is going off-topic rather quickly

[Raffa]

KO.

Classic check your facts before you post.

[Ar-Aamon]

Wat they are like little baby Spess... SM also get super reflexes and rage plus another dozen extra organs, centuries of experience, and they're twice as big.

In Nemesis the Imperium's best Eversor barely "killed" a random Spess after ambushing him and his Callidus friend shooting the Spess (later the Callidus had to again headshot the Spess when he was getting back up).

In gameplay, an Eversor should be pretty dangerous and threaten most SM units, of course.

Exactly this. An Assassin is no match for a Space Marine (lorewise). But this isn't the point. Gameplay over lore (as in TT) is the way to go.

[Cheah18]

Wat they are like little baby Spess... SM also get super reflexes and rage plus another dozen extra organs, centuries of experience, and they're twice as big.

In Nemesis the Imperium's best Eversor barely "killed" a random Spess after ambushing him and his Callidus friend shooting the Spess (later the Callidus had to again headshot the Spess when he was getting back up).

In gameplay, an Eversor should be pretty dangerous and threaten most SM units, of course.

Exactly this. An Assassin is no match for a Space Marine (lorewise). But this isn't the point. Gameplay over lore (as in TT) is the way to go.

Is this right? I read something or other about a large number of SMs attacking the Eversor temple and only one making it out alive. I thought the Eversor was supposed to be some crazy super strong ultra killy dude.

[Orkfaeller]

Yah, I think an Assassin is easily a match for a Marine. In the TT alone, and yes I know TT dont directly translate into lore, they have twice the melee skill. You have no idea how much that is. No Space Marine has stats this high.

In the Space Wolves novels the only reason the Wolves defeat an Assassin is because freaking Ragnar Blackmane gets him with a power armored bear hug.

"Ragnar, who had been badly wounded in the fight, said he had never faced so deadly an adversary before."

____

That said, still would prefer Assassins to stay Sub Commanders.

[Aertes]

Sorry Caeltos, but I dont understand your post, I only see you agreeing with me. They have agumentations but not Space marine augmentations.

The only documented action where an Assassin killed a space marine was when Konrad Curze was assassianted by a Callidus, and all the lore says Kurze probably let himself be killed just to proove he was right betraying the Emperor.

As someone said, lore has little to do with what its done here, I just provide the right barckground guidance, up to the mod creators to listen or not.

[Commissar Yarrick]

Not to mention Granite... One of the Execution force in Horus heresy book: Nemesis.
Granite war heightened senses with high load of combat drugs making him faster and stronger than any space marine could hope to be. Not a single scratch was laid upon him when he pounced on the traitor marine and shred him apart with his titanium claws.

The only downside of this was that he went berserk not being able to make out friend from foe. However Granite knew the "shade" or the "shapeshifter" all too well to attack him/her.

For each kill granite got jolts of pleasure and more drugs to feed his addiction making him nearly unstopable killing machine. I think this would be a good implementation to Eversor assassin. For each kill it gets more speed and damage... Stacks up to a maximum capasity.

Then there is the failsafe. All of the chemicals inside of the assassin will flow into single point making the assassin explode with ascid and corrosive liquids in order to kill all nearby.

[BaptismByLoli]

@Aertes Your post made me senile

Sent from my GT-S5830i using Tapatalk 2

[Lulgrim]

Not to mention Granite... One of the Execution force in Horus heresy book: Nemesis.
Granite war heightened senses with high load of combat drugs making him faster and stronger than any space marine could hope to be. Not a single scratch was laid upon him when he pounced on the traitor marine and shred him apart with his titanium claws.

Wtf man. 1) I think you're trying to say "the Garantine", who was a character in that book. 2) Nowhere is it implied he'd be stronger than Spess (wat). 3) The rest is bullshit too, he was wounded all over + lost an eye. And didn't actually kill the Spess, like I said before...

[Torpid]

The lore is absurdly hyperbolic anyway. Well I say the lore, but it isn't really the lore it's just stories. Space marines aren't killing thousands of guardsmen and they aren't throwing leman russes all over the place. The Grey knights can't kill 100s of bloodletters by looking at them and the sisters of battle won't kill Grey Knights. It's imperial propaganda. An eversor assassin > your average tactical marine.

[Ace of Swords]

No it's plot armor depending on how relevant to the plot the character is.

[Lulgrim]

The lore is absurdly hyperbolic anyway.

40K is absurd.

Well I say the lore, but it isn't really the lore

How is the fluff "not the lore"...

An eversor assassin > your average tactical marine.

Well I did just reference the GW book where the best Eversor failed to kill a random Tac, but never mind.

[Torpid]

Because if you take every book literally then you get clear contradicts. It's basically the same thing that happens with scripture. You can't take it all literally else it makes no sense so you accept some as symbolic/allegorical/analogous/hyperbolic.

[Aertes]

As another note in support of the Concept 1 (Buildable) option, Caeltos said that could provoke an overabundance of commander-like units in the GK army, but that's exactly what GK are.

Assassins, Champions of the Brotherhood, Inquisitors, Paladins and such are low numbered (often single) units with tremendous capacities and might. Having a GK army of an Eversor, a Vindicare and a couple of Strike Squads is nothing strange to see at all and has its own pros and againsts. They may be powerful, but they are very few, can be outnumbered, debuffed with abilities and so on.

[Ar-Aamon]

Assassins are created to eliminate human beings like Governors, Cultleaders and some Xenos. They weren't meant to stand against a Space Marine or even a Primarch, lol.

[Raffa]

As another note in support of the Concept 1 (Buildable) option, Caeltos said that could provoke an overabundance of commander-like units in the GK army, but that's exactly what GK are.

Assassins, Champions of the Brotherhood, Inquisitors, Paladins and such are low numbered (often single) units with tremendous capacities and might. Having a GK army of an Eversor, a Vindicare and a couple of Strike Squads is nothing strange to see at all and has its own pros and againsts. They may be powerful, but they are very few, can be outnumbered, debuffed with abilities and so on.

No, it's not at all what GK are.

They're just a low model army, like SM.

[ChrisNihilus]

An Eversor is definitely stronger than an Astartes.

Astartes are perfect warrior, sure, build for last an eternity and fight on every battlefield.
If Eversors weren't put in a fridge after a mission, they would last a very short time. But they are definitely stronger for the short time they survive.

The Stats in the Tabletop games say, for the Eversor:

WS 5 (more than a Space Marine)
BS 5 (They even shot better for whatever reason. Probably hyper-reflexes)
S 4 (As a Space Marine)
T 4 (As a Space Marine)
W 2 (As any non-tank leader)
I 5 (like a Noise Marine!)
A 3 (pretty insane)
Ld 10
Sv 4+

In the tabletop he has a lot of special abilities too, so he is pratically stronger than most HQ choices except special characters.

[Dark Riku]

Why did you stop the comparison?
sv 4+ is less than a SM 3+ one ^^ or 2+ when wearing artificer armour like TM's etc.

[Flash]

Can we move on from the asinine discussion over which one is more likely to rip the others spine out? Get back to the original topic.

I vote commander, as it would diversify GK play style.

[ChrisNihilus]

Why did you stop the comparison?
sv 4+ is less than a SM 3+ one ^^ or 2+ when wearing artificer armour like TM's etc.

I was sure i did. lol
Yes, you are right, but it is an Invulnerabile save, not an armor one.

He explode when he die, he's fearless, +1d6 attacks when charging and can charge for 12" in the assault phase and don't count as moving while shooting.

The text speak a lot of "Higher reflexes", "Faster methabolism" and "Incredible speed".

[Commissar Yarrick]

Not to mention Granite... One of the Execution force in Horus heresy book: Nemesis.
Granite war heightened senses with high load of combat drugs making him faster and stronger than any space marine could hope to be. Not a single scratch was laid upon him when he pounced on the traitor marine and shred him apart with his titanium claws.

Wtf man. 1) I think you're trying to say "the Garantine", who was a character in that book. 2) Nowhere is it implied he'd be stronger than Spess (wat). 3) The rest is bullshit too, he was wounded all over + lost an eye. And didn't actually kill the Spess, like I said before...

I had gone through that book months ago and you might forgive me that my memory aint as good as someone else's into minor details. I jsut said what I rememeber of such type of assassin and did not even hint at "make him like this" at all. But didn't he looses the eye when the traitor marines pushed him and the shapeshifter on the roads into a "corner" when their railway train or something ot shot down.

Garantine: "Just you know, I do not like you"
Shapeshifter: "The feeling is mutual"

-at the instant Garantine sprung to his feet and ran like a madman at the traitor tactical squad-

I think how that ended for him then. Considering he was mortaly wounded, somekind of bolter would on the back or something if I am not mistaken.

PS. Then how do I remember Garantine saying "So that is how it feels like to kill a Astartes"
Furthermore when the Shapeshifter was about to shoot the astartes with the bio weapon I remmeber Garantine jumping on the marine with manical chant "My kill, My kill, My kill, My kill," -> "MYKILLMYKILLMYKILLMYKILLMYKILLMYKILL". Due to the combat drugs.

-not interested in rant fest-