Kasrkin crack Grenade.

[sk4zi]

so, i really wonder why this must shut down the wheapons?

stolen eldar technology?

why should ig have that?
and more interesting: Why some other races do not have this?
i understand why GK have as developed technology as eldar but ig...

ig has 2 detectors, 2x grenades, 2x repair...
whats the reason for that?

no more ig love pls.

[ChrisNihilus]

so, i really wonder why this must shut down the wheapons?

stolen eldar technology?

why should ig have that?
and more interesting: Why some other races do not have this?
i understand why GK have as developed technology as eldar but ig...

ig has 2 detectors, 2x grenades, 2x repair...
whats the reason for that?

no more ig love pls.

Different races are different.

[lolzarz]

Because the KRAK (not crack) grenade is in Tier 3, and has 1/3 of the duration as other similar anti-tank grenades, such as Assault Space Marine melta bombs, Warp Spider Haywire Grenades and Raptor melta bombs. Also, unlike everyone else with an anti-tank grenade, Kasrkin cannot jump into grenade range. Interceptors can. Assault Space Marines can. Warp Spiders can. Raptors can. Can Kasrkin? No.

[sk4zi]

true they cant. but in return they can do ridiculous damage and be anti everything with long range

[Aertes]

I still agree with Sk4zi that the karkin krak grenade should deal more damage, but not stun vehicles.

It could be renamed "demolition charge" and deal heavy slpash damage, its an existing IG gear.

[BaptismByLoli]

I still agree with Sk4zi that the karkin krak grenade should deal more damage, but not stun vehicles.

It could be renamed "demolition charge" and deal heavy slpash damage, its an existing IG gear.

sk4zi ain't asking for increased damage from what I'm seeing here. He's saying something along the lines of, 'IG is starting to piss me of with all these changes' IMO (No offence mate ).

Also, demolition charges with heavy splash damage? No, I don't think that's needed for IG. Imagine what 2 Kasrkins can do to slow stuff like LR or Terminators

[Aertes]

Well they would be two T3 units after all... it shouldn't be bad that they have some impressive capacities together.

[BaptismByLoli]

[Tex]

I see nothing wrong with this. Karskins are T3 units.
T3 units need to be badass.
Only vehicle you are going to land this grenade on without inquisitor support is a melee walker.
Melee walker's generally suck in T3 and generally suck even more against IG.
Point in case

[sk4zi]

discret is right.
ig cheese really pisses me off

although i dont want them to be like in retail imho they get to much utility on too many squads.

so its basicly theese 3 things.
(AV grenade, detector, repair)

in term of repair i kind of understand ist that they have more than one squad.
but actually i absolutely do not with the detection (imho ig should have the worst detection since they are just normal humans with mass but no future techonolgy - but in fact they have the best)
and that av grenade thing is just ridicoulous to me.

they have allready the best av tanks (bb and leman russ)
they have the most powerful lascan
they have heavy melee damage in t2 on a squad that can retreat
they have one of the best av squads with infil and grenade

why do they need that other grenade ...
kasrkins really are good enough without av

other races need also to purchase t1/2 stuff to get repair, av grens or detection

I see nothing wrong with this. Karskins are T3 units.
T3 units need to be badass.
Only vehicle you are going to land this grenade on without inquisitor support is a melee walker.
Melee walker's generally suck in T3 and generally suck even more against IG.
Point in case

considering this, Vanguard should have a grenade which stunns too and raptor grens should also stunn.
for example ...

[lolzarz]

true they cant. but in return they can do ridiculous damage and be anti everything with long range

Anti-everything with long range? What kind of crack are you on? Meltaguns have bad range, everything else does nothing but scratch vehicle paint. And why would I even buy them in Tier 3 if they don't do ridiculous damage?

[Cheah18]

Anti-everything with long range? What kind of crack are you on?

Lol Krak

Is it just me or is the Krak grenade's existence completely sensible? Its not that strong nor does it snare for that long, kasrkin can't jump or infil close to a vehicle, its hard to land. But its useful in that it allows Kasrkin that extra utility (which they deserve as a 'badass' T3 unit) and ensures the enemy has to be just a little more careful.

[Tex]

Anti-everything with long range? What kind of crack are you on?

Lol Krak

Is it just me or is the Krak grenade's existence completely sensible? Its not that strong nor does it snare for that long, kasrkin can't jump or infil close to a vehicle, its hard to land. But its useful in that it allows Kasrkin that extra utility (which they deserve as a 'badass' T3 unit) and ensures the enemy has to be just a little more careful.

Precisely.

[Torpid]

To be quite honest I think Kasrkins are completely unnecessary so the conversation of krak grenades is a bit off point for me.

While we're on that topic, why are kasrkins a thing again?

[Cheah18]

You know a lot more than I Torpid, but I'm impertinent enough to say that I think they're a perfect unit for IG. High dps, squishy, long range, cheap, great for tackling SHI etc when Lemans would be less viable then an inf unit.

[Torpid]

You know a lot more than I Torpid, but I'm impertinent enough to say that I think they're a perfect unit for IG. High dps, squishy, long range, cheap, great for tackling SHI etc when Lemans would be less viable then an inf unit.

But that's exactly why I don't like them; they're just guardsmen on crack. It's not like artillery spotters, who are a unit that fulfills the role of a t1 hard suppression team counter - something that nothing else in IG does. Kasrkin do the job of guardsmen but way better while all the while being weak against everything that guardsmen are weak to - fast melee squads, jumping melee, artillery etc. IG already have plasma gun guardsmen and ogryns both of which counter SHI pretty well. Leman themselves do a pretty good job too considering how durable they are.

It's the same contention that I have with flash gitz really. Gitz are just shootas on crack. The justification is slightly better for gitz in that they can upgrade to get the blastas which counter SHI which no other ork ranged unit does, yet even in this instance I don't feel like orks deserve a dedicated SHI counter as they're bloody efficient at counter everything else with their current composition; they need some weaknesses. That's the same gripe I have with reapers. Eldar do more than fine vs everything else so is it so bad that SHI is somewhat decent against them? I don't feel these criticisms apply to spotters or the painboy as given the nerfs to both of the races which those subcommanders belong to I feel those units were indeed necessary to balance the race else they may be underpowered. That said I despise the implementation of the painboy. A non-DOT heal that could be used more frequently and therefore be used more inbetween engagements and on ranged units IMO would have done the job far far better.

I'm just not content at this stage to start discussing how kasrkins ought to be when I don't see why they're in the game in the first place.

[sk4zi]

actually i was only asking why this krak grenade needs to shut down the wheapons of a vehicle.

really eldar grenades were former times the best because their AV was bad with the need of buying a new unit (Brightlance) and only the shees as additional AV - it was quite understandable that eldar need a better grenade, and also fluffy.

so for now the shurrican can transition into a brightlance - which is discussable but ok
since the brightlance doesnt snare it might be still ok that they have a better grenade than all the other races. and its still fluffy since they are far more developed in technology.

so but since IG has no of this diasadvantages i just dont get why they need such a hard stunn.
their lascan snares, they have allready an av grenade on a squad which can infiltrate, does much damage and is cheap.
they have not less av than other races which lag a stunn grenade. so i just dont thinkl IG does deserve a vehicle stunn like that on a squad that is allready anti everything else.

[Ar-Aamon]

Well how about to remove the trait "stick"?

[Bahamut]

I agree with Torpid. Neither flash gits, dark reapers, karskins or chaos terminators were needed additions but they are there and they're not gonna get removed

Tho karskins are OP as of now because expertise, they'll get balanced and thus never used after 2.3

[sk4zi]

imho kasrkins are cool but they are going to become space marines without armor and stronger wheapons ...

[Kvek]

and what's the problem about that ?

[Kcets]

I agree with Torpid. Neither flash gits, dark reapers, karskins or chaos terminators were needed additions but they are there and they're not gonna get removed

Tho karskins are OP as of now because expertise, they'll get balanced and thus never used after 2.3

Chaos Termies? I understand the other three, but why are CTs unnecessary?

[sk4zi]

i think this is sayed because chaos termies add nothing really new to tha chaos roster.

for melee you allready have Bloodletters. The autocannon can also be on a havoc and the tanky av is allready covered by plaque marines.

they are nice to have thou because of the instant summoning (drop) and they are a good replacement for CSM

[Torpid]

Chaos terminators add loads. Firstly they're a ranged SHI variant. Furthermore they're another ranged unit that is clearly differentiated from TCSM as they aren't amazing vs HI/SHI but are better vs blobs, that's great because chaos lack ranged units. They're also another incentive to go T3 - something that chaos was lacking before but needed really post-bloodletter/plague marine nerfs.

[Vapor]

Chaos termies are a great addition imo, as are flash gitz since shootas don't scale super well into the late game. Dark reapers I'm sort of ok wit,h but I'm not sure why they have the pinning fire ability, suppression on demand is just too much for a race with easy access to plasma grenades...

I look forward to seeing how kasrkin play out without weapon expertise next patch. The nade launchers sound awesome.

[David-CZ]

I wouldn't bother with those granades. What needs to be looked at is the lascannon's shield. It's just stupid. Why does it even exist? Please at least remove the knockback immunity if nothing else.

[Torpid]

Agreed. The IG weapon team shield is overpowered.

You can counter set-up teams with split-fire, snipers, grenades, on-demand knockback (shotgun blast/warp throw etc), on demand suppresssion (high powered shot, aiming wotz 'dat), artillery, counter-suppression teams... Vehicles, jump squads, melee flanks or unsuppressable/very tanky infantry. The HWT shield counters everything before the ellipsis.

[Lag]

But dies pretty quickly to any form of arty because it doesn't scatter from the kb. Manti, Stickbombaz, Plasma Devs and Noise Marines > Shield HWT.

[Torpid]

The lead model of the IG HWT is die-last though and considering that model is taking 50% less damage from all that arty it really doesn't have much to worry about. One arty shot/barrage won't kill it and you can just retreat out of the second one.