The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and own

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
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Superhooper01
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The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and own

Postby Superhooper01 » Mon 28 Apr, 2014 10:42 am

I started using the Knob on elite and really enjoyed him at 1st does good dps on his starting shoo ta and his war-gear to start off was really fun to use and allowed for some epic ability's that seemed fun like the grappling hook allowing u 2 escape or chase units and kaboom able to counter melee units etc.

However after using him alot of late and seeing ever players use him i feel that some of his war-gear and ability's are very strong and can wipe squads with ease which to me is not right.

Lets start with that awesome weapon the special shoota which is a shotgun. This gun is useful as it can knock-back units and heroes and has a ability which does tons of damage and knock back etc. The problem is he can wipe a heretic squad in 1 blast of its ability and also kill Catachan devils and homo-guants with ease and as he can infiltrate he can gib them without u even knowing. Of course a leveled up tic squad with AC prob wouldn't get wiped but seeing as i have killed GK ST squads in 1 blast and have loosed plenty of low leveled squads due to dps from ever sources after the blast from his ability i feel it could use a damage decrease, because i figured the purpose of the shotgun was to do knock-back to melee units not own them in 1 blast

His tier 3 rocket launcher is simply to good, if he infiltrates and gets behind a falcon or fire prism razorback or any light vehicle he can wipe them before u spot him, usual in 2 bursts he can simply desimate a army of vehicles. It can also allow him to hunt down Manticores with great effectiveness, bash power easy and also destroy emplacements such as turrets or relays etc. The fact he can get a av weapon is great but it needs a damage decrease, as it is simply to good allowing him to destroy dreadnoughts and in time do a lot of dps to LR or ever vehicles. The ability on the rocket is also being used to own squads like the shotgun, ive seen it wipe GK ST and due to the way it is fired it can with the right positioning cause lots of disruption and damage.

I dont have issue with his amour upgrades which are very well done even if i do chose the sneaky infiltration kit 90% of the time but thats how i use him.

The ever problem i think is Kaboom which is not only hilarious but to low leveled squads such as the homoguant etc can gib it in 1 with the Armour upgrade better boom git which maybe the solution to these problems maybe if it was tweaked to allow less damage to his war-gear may allow for him to be less of a gib unit and allow him o be more sneaky and less of a boss when fighting imperial guard or nids.

So as i said love this hero but seeing as ive used him against some of the best imperial guard players on elite with them complaining at how he is op against them or simply refuse to play against him due to his gibs and war-gear and recently been on the receiving end f the pain that a Knob can do with his arsenal to certain units and vehicles think this needs to be addressed.
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Re: The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and o

Postby Red Beard » Mon 28 Apr, 2014 10:53 am

I think all his abilities are fine....especially the rokkit launcha which u get in Tier 3..so i think the dmg is reasonable considering it is a tier 3 weapon as u have to spend 300/150 to get to tier 3 and an additional 150/50 to get the launcha so a total of 450/200.
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Re: The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and o

Postby Superhooper01 » Mon 28 Apr, 2014 11:00 am

I think ur being way to nice to his ability's mate :lol: i know u play him often prob's Ur 2nd most used hero? i feel u are not having a open mind. His upgrades are cheap in my eyes and ive seen plenty of people moan about the shotgun and rocket launcher :roll:
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Re: The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and o

Postby Torpid » Mon 28 Apr, 2014 11:31 am

His knife is the most overpowered of his weapons. At least in 1v1. The KN is so much better than the warboss in every single way except from the lack of a power klaw that it is just absurd. Between the mek and the KN the WB looks like such a pussy.

Try playing vs the KN in 1v1. Enjoy getting squads wiped instantly due to the stikkbombs -> aiming wotz dat followed up by 'dem sluggas. Stunbomb is pretty broken when people use it correctly, throwing it behind units in cover while melee swamps it or using AWD or a loota/weirdboy to set it up.
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Re: The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and o

Postby HandSome SoddiNg » Mon 28 Apr, 2014 12:03 pm

Superhooper01 wrote:I think ur being way to nice to his ability's mate :lol: i know u play him often prob's Ur 2nd most used hero? i feel u are not having a open mind. His upgrades are cheap in my eyes and ive seen plenty of people moan about the shotgun and rocket launcher :roll:


Shotgun Kaboom can be devastating to GM but his Rokkit launcher bit Op tbh. The damage on that thing vs Vehicles,jeuz christ
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Re: The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and o

Postby Red Beard » Mon 28 Apr, 2014 12:19 pm

HandSome SoddiNg wrote:
Superhooper01 wrote:I think ur being way to nice to his ability's mate :lol: i know u play him often prob's Ur 2nd most used hero? i feel u are not having a open mind. His upgrades are cheap in my eyes and ive seen plenty of people moan about the shotgun and rocket launcher :roll:


Shotgun Kaboom can be devastating to GM but his Rokkit launcher bit Op tbh. The damage on that thing vs Vehicles,jeuz christ


Well what do u expect from a Tier 3 rokkit launcha? It is not that cheap u know.
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Re: The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and o

Postby David-CZ » Mon 28 Apr, 2014 12:50 pm

A tank for 450/125 or so isn't cheap either.

The weapon has high DPS, a powerful ability and is used by an infiltratable commander.

No matter how well you position your vehicles (mainly tanks and transports) unless you have a detector babysitting it ready to tie him up and mad reaction time you'll have it destroyed in a few rear armor hits. And in case you react in time and have the Knob tied up and your vehicle running to safety he can just use the rocket ability to try taking it out anyway.
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Re: The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and o

Postby Rataxas » Mon 28 Apr, 2014 1:07 pm

- knob got to high range dps ( 100 hp from infantry / commander in 1 shot burst ) ,
- rokkit luncha is OP no matter how much will cost , cloaky hero + rokkit luncha = OP
- shotgun blast is pretty much random , sometimes you will wipe a tick squads sometimes not. Maybe i would jsut incrase a cool down on that thingy shiny gun.
- knife is joke right now.
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Re: The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and o

Postby Red Beard » Mon 28 Apr, 2014 1:12 pm

David-CZ wrote:A tank for 450/125 or so isn't cheap either.

The weapon has high DPS, a powerful ability and is used by an infiltratable commander.

No matter how well you position your vehicles (mainly tanks and transports) unless you have a detector babysitting it ready to tie him up and mad reaction time you'll have it destroyed in a few rear armor hits. And in case you react in time and have the Knob tied up and your vehicle running to safety he can just use the rocket ability to try taking it out anyway.


Well if u think that the KN rokkit launcha is OP what about the MB beamy(which u get at tier 2) when combined with the SuperTuff Beam?? and he can also teleport to take out retreating vehicles.
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Re: The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and o

Postby Rataxas » Mon 28 Apr, 2014 1:14 pm

[WHElite] R3D B34RD wrote:
David-CZ wrote:A tank for 450/125 or so isn't cheap either.

The weapon has high DPS, a powerful ability and is used by an infiltratable commander.

No matter how well you position your vehicles (mainly tanks and transports) unless you have a detector babysitting it ready to tie him up and mad reaction time you'll have it destroyed in a few rear armor hits. And in case you react in time and have the Knob tied up and your vehicle running to safety he can just use the rocket ability to try taking it out anyway.


Well if u think that the KN rokkit launcha is OP what about the MB beamy(which u get at tier 2) when combined with the SuperTuff Beam?? and he can also teleport to take out retreating vehicles.



Mekboy cant cloak himself, and got less HP and beamy deff gun got way less DPS.
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Re: The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and o

Postby Superhooper01 » Mon 28 Apr, 2014 1:38 pm

The mekboy needs to set up to use his beamy gun as well Red but all it takes is a Knob to get behind a army and he can wipe tons. A example of this in a game of 3v3 a mate of mine loosed 3 fire prisms in less than 30sec's as a knob was not spotted or disrupted and took them out 1 by 1. This is a case were a player may get lucky and spot him or at least be able to avoid him quickly but with a huge engagement going on with either units engaging etc the Knob can just own light vehicles and do tons of damage to big vehicles LR for example.
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Re: The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and o

Postby Bahamut » Mon 28 Apr, 2014 2:58 pm

The combo of unending stealth plus a dps of a power fist but with range and explosive (or armor piercing) damage type do seem OP as hell. Lemans can take it, preds don't come out alive half the time but anything softer than a pred is plain out dead with no chance to survive.

The shotgun itself seems fine to me, the blast could do 5 or 10 less damage tho

As the mek with the custom shield... yeah that thing is annoying as hell. Specially because tje strength of the KB is very high and sends units flying far too away
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Re: The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and o

Postby David-CZ » Mon 28 Apr, 2014 3:58 pm

[WHElite] R3D B34RD wrote:Well if u think that the KN rokkit launcha is OP what about the MB beamy(which u get at tier 2) when combined with the SuperTuff Beam?? and he can also teleport to take out retreating vehicles.

I didn't mention it because I thought I'd keep to the Knob.

But the way I see it the weapon itself is fine. It's the fact MB doesn't have to reset it upon teleporting that is wrong. There is no way you can outrun him so you can either try tying him up which is impossible with his bubble or focus him down. In either case a vehicle play against MB seems rather masochistic.
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Re: The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and o

Postby L0thar » Mon 28 Apr, 2014 4:29 pm

Yeah, MB with force field is crazy good. Immunity to almost anything (even to being tied up by melee) and 70% ranged resistance on top of it. Good luck forcing him off before he blows up any lighter or heavy but already damaged vehicle.

And people are complaining about tracking FoS... :?
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Re: The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and o

Postby Vapor » Mon 28 Apr, 2014 4:35 pm

Keep in mind that the Knob's rokkit launcha is the only unique t3 weapon in the game, aside from the FC Terminator's. So I think it makes sense that's it's extremely powerful. Whether or not it's ok for such a high-damage weapon to be on an infiltrating hero who can now fling himself across the map is another story... If its straight dps is nerfed it should definitely receive a perk in some other category.

The knife is clearly OP for 20 power. If it was just the weapon it would probably be OK, but you also get trippa shot (useful single-model stun when it works) and the assassinate, which totally rapes ASM, Raptors, etc. My solution would be to increase the price to 30 power and reduce the damage of assassinate.

Stikks, shotgun blast, and kaboom are all very powerful but I think they're mostly ok, I mean the main draw of the knob is his ability to sneak around, lay traps, and gib stuff. Kaboom knocking back walkers should be fixed obviously.

Mega boom kit is too good for 20 power. Either the bonus to the stun bomb should be removed, or the bonus to the stun bomb should be halved and the cost increased to 25 or 30 power.
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Re: The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and o

Postby Forestradio » Mon 28 Apr, 2014 11:54 pm

I think the "Right in me Crosshairs" ability is a bit too strong at the moment.

1. It has a wider cast range than most detection radii

2. It does full damage on retreat

3. It has a small energy cost, and all the k nob's gear increases his energy pool (he should also be leveled as well)

4. It has a very short cooldown: 30 s

5. I have wiped catachans with like 3/4 hp with this. Out of infiltration. So unless your opponent sees the little targetting thing, it's undodgeable and unavoidable.
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Re: The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and o

Postby SirSid » Tue 29 Apr, 2014 12:50 am

Iv bitched about the rocket launcher for years. It is WAY to strong for a unit that can stealth. It's a simpile " i win " purchus vs tanks , since it's on a commander even detection of him uussaly dose not save the tank, also the first shot will almost always be on rear armour. Just a insanley strong AV option. I don't see it changing however , it's been a problem for years , break down and simply do not get tanks vs him as i do.

I very much agree with tropid about the knife, it's is a VERY nice upgrade that incresses the ork army's squade whipe potential by a shit load. Againg however i do not see this getting changed . Mabey i should abuse it more till people start getting mad cuz ATM it`s rare u see it purcused.

The shotgun is very strong also however it becomes insane when he also purchuses grenades , stealth in throw down nades then start fireing the secound the nades start off and follow the retreating unit to base , u can whipe almost anything. Nothing is save solo capping vs this combo used well. Again however i do not see it getting changed.

His wargear is a bit expensive witch helps keep it in line i feel that as long as u are prepared for each pice to come onto the field and react acordinly it is not to strong . The problem is when u don`t expect it and u get totaly owned in 1 fight by it. So personaly i feel it is mostly ok ( hence y i do not see anything getting major changes )

As far as the rocket launcher I don`t think it can be fixed , a high burst damage AV wepon on a stealth unit is inharently broken, it can`t be fixed IMO. If u changed it for a MASSIVE DPS reduction dew to the alpha damage nature of it it would become totaly useless vs any strong tank , while still near insta gibing transports or weaker tanks like a bloodcruser or ork walker, so a DSP change would `fix`nothing. I have hated this wargear for so long nothing will make me happey with it that i can see. Remove it from the game completly is what i want. That however is selfish so i say leave it alone and just know u have to fight around a insanley strong AV option for the commander.
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Re: The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and o

Postby Darkbulborb » Tue 29 Apr, 2014 8:36 am

You're all forgetting that the purpose of a kommando is to be sneaky and then surprise the enemy with (as you claim) 'tons of damage'

His shotgun is a buffed up (ork style though) one, so it isn't only meant for knocking back.

His rokkit launcha requires even more than your average tank. 300/150 for tier 3, then 150/50 more for the rokkit launcha, and that infiltration comes with this hero is just something good for the orks, this mod already nerfed them down to the ground.

And if you want to counter Kommandos or kommando nob, just buy stealth detectors, everyone has them.
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Re: The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and o

Postby David-CZ » Tue 29 Apr, 2014 9:01 am

Darkbulborb wrote:...His rokkit launcha requires even more than your average tank. 300/150 for tier 3, then 150/50 more for the rokkit launcha...

How come you count in T3 for the Rokkit Launcha but leave it out for tanks?

As SirSid said it's hard to fix the issue since it originates from the Knob's nature. So in order to solve this he'd have to be completely redesigned, which is unlikey to ever happen.
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Re: The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and o

Postby HandSome SoddiNg » Tue 29 Apr, 2014 9:16 am

Bahamut wrote:The combo of unending stealth plus a dps of a power fist but with range and explosive (or armor piercing) damage type do seem OP as hell. Lemans can take it, preds don't come out alive half the time but anything softer than a pred is plain out dead with no chance to survive.

The shotgun itself seems fine to me, the blast could do 5 or 10 less damage tho

As the mek with the custom shield... yeah that thing is annoying as hell. Specially because tje strength of the KB is very high and sends units flying far too away



KN can be tied up but mostly cloaked right,he still do tons of Damage alongside Tankbusta or Looted tanks or Nobz,especially rear armor . Mekboy can still be Concentrated by FF regardless of Kustom force field just doing KB to any units
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Re: The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and o

Postby L0thar » Tue 29 Apr, 2014 10:10 am

Well, the Mek has technically over 2000 HP with the FF on, it's not exactly easy to gun him down.
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Re: The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and o

Postby Lag » Tue 29 Apr, 2014 10:53 am

I fully agree with OP on everything.
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Re: The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and o

Postby Tex » Tue 29 Apr, 2014 2:13 pm

If you buy tanks against a KN and the game has gone past the 20 minute mark... buy a fucking extra detector for goodness sakes.

An extra ranger vs orks is almost never a bad thing. Farsight is also boss mode.

An extra Scout with Sarge helps with repairs anyway, and you can get a sniper or shotgun to augment your situation.

Nids have so much detection it would be hilarious to see a carnifex actually dying to the Knob rokkit launcha.

IG have the most damage resistant tank and GM's are practically immortal by T3. This is a good thing in regards to the rokkit launcha, because catachans are seriously not an option against that weapon lol or the knob in general. Spotters do currently detect although I think they are losing detection next patch. Spotters are cheap and would fill this role nicely for babysitting a tank under threat.
IG also have flare and servo skull (pending onhero) to do some revealing. Lots of options here.

GK don't have tanks and their land raider would be tickled by this weapon tbh. I'm not sure how much the "right in me crosshairs" ability does to stormtroopers, but I don't think this would be much of a problem for GK unless you are in a ork T3 vs GK T2 kind of nightmare (which would mean building a dread is a bad idea probably). But with that said, I can't imagine that if you have a vehicle, that building another IST squad would be such a bad thing. Extra repair support, detection, and the ability to upgrade to plasma.

Chaos detection is fairly shitty in a T3 context. "Right in me crosshairs" absolutely wrecks tics, and I would personally be loathe to build another tic squad in t3 for extra detection as I have already suffered immense bleeding throughout the entire match lol. Regardless, AC tics are fearsome warriors when buffed with globals and you don't have to reinforce them fully to be able to detect and tie up a roaming rokkit toting Knob.

Orks have 0 problems with detection. Shoota nobs are fantastic. Kommandos are a perfect scaling/replacement unit if one or both of your shootas eventually go down.
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Re: The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and o

Postby David-CZ » Tue 29 Apr, 2014 3:02 pm

Prism goes down in two shots or one shot and the ability. Not exactly what I'd call balanced.

And even if I did have multiple units babysitting my vehicles there is always the stun bomb that can delay any support long enough for him to fire at least twice.
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Re: The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and o

Postby Ace of Swords » Tue 29 Apr, 2014 4:17 pm

The rokkit launcha is fine, I'd say the Knob outside of the knife new ability is fine overall, but that thing, when it works, just turns the Knob into LA 2.0.

And the knife itself was already a pretty good wargears in 1v1s and 2s, in 3s I'd say keeping the default gun is the best still late T3 when you need hard av or maybe the shotgun if there is alot of melee.
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Re: The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and o

Postby Helios » Tue 29 Apr, 2014 4:27 pm

That ability he gets from his shotgun does WAY too much damage. I don't get why that hasn't been nerfed yet. You can wipe any high number-low hp squad with it even if they are just slightly injured, say 1/5 or 1/4 of their hp down and you can almost always wipe it.
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Re: The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and o

Postby Dark Riku » Tue 29 Apr, 2014 5:49 pm

Superhooper01 wrote:Original Post.
+1

Darkbulborb wrote:His rokkit launcha requires even more than your average tank. 300/150 for tier 3, then 150/50 more for the rokkit launcha, and that infiltration comes with this hero is just something good for the orks, this mod already nerfed them down to the ground.
As mentioned before, funny that you include the T3 purchase only for the Ork ...
What exactly got nerfed in ELite? You talking about the Ork race? :lol:
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Re: The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and o

Postby Bahamut » Tue 29 Apr, 2014 6:09 pm

if anything orks got buffed since retail. Actually all races have got buffed since retail, some more than others

waaagh banners, tanky sluggas, burn da house, less pop for nobs with same frenzy duration, faster red auto gain, less red cost on waaagh, buffs to battlewaggon, flash gits, painboy.. weirdboy is still rampant. Only real nerf was stikkbombbas, and even they got a slight buff

Oh right, sluggas are not as fast anymore and now you need to buy the nob for shootas to have their high dps, but they still have it
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Re: The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and o

Postby Red Beard » Tue 29 Apr, 2014 6:17 pm

[quote="Tex"]If you buy tanks against a KN and the game has gone past the 20 minute mark... buy a fucking extra detector for goodness sakes.


Thank you Tex.... :)
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Re: The kommando knob for a sneaky git he sure can gib and o

Postby Caeltos » Wed 30 Apr, 2014 1:22 am

but-but I usually don't get more then one.

So what do I do???????)

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