Patch 2.3 Balance changelog

[Torpid]

Quick question: does the Tyrant Guard have a melee resistance aura? And if not, will it get it along with the walkers mentioned?

No and no (I guess).

[Atlas]

Ignoring the hard maths here idk it just feel weird that the Spotters of all things won't be a detecting unit in the IG roster. I know it's just a fluff sort of argument, but still.'

This FoS talk is pretty much done as it is now, there's really not much to add to it. For what's it worth, being a newb and all, I don't think these changes to FoS is going to suddenly catapult FC into becoming anti-all Metal Bawkses no matter what. Caeltos put up some pretty compelling arguments about that backed by some (mostly correct) numbers.

Now we just need to get this patch released!

[Bahamut]

Quick question: does the Tyrant Guard have a melee resistance aura? And if not, will it get it along with the walkers mentioned?

No and no (I guess).

yeah, for the price i don't think TG should get it. Ofc i don't think the deff dread shouldnt neither, but deff dread IS getting it

[Black Relic]

Oh right sorry, but that's still 95 then, so it's still into the 100 energy limit.

But then the FC becomes an easy target because the intent behind his build is obvious. a simple KB on the FC during all this and his charge was wasted.

But we shall see what becomes of this change. I still don't think ill get the powerfist any more often with this change to be honest.

But now libby has another use with his VoT though. VoT on FC. FC uses battle cry so he doesnt get KBed. Then the Flesh over Steel.

[Toilailee]

* Flesh over Steel now tracks the target to ease up some issues with the ability itself

Plz no. The only reason this ability wasn't completely trolololol OP & broken was that it couldn't hit moving vehicles properly. Yes I know what you think of balancing around bugs, but this ability is so poorly designed that it is broken by definition and taking away it's only weak point will make all vehicle play vs fc redundant.

[Cheekie Monkie]

All this talk of FoS and nary a comment about the banshee changes?

I know I'm ready for a girls night out!

[Nuclear Arbitor]

i'm not sure there's much to talk about there. they get a large buff without aspect and a small buff with aspect. they should end up with another 50hp or so.

[Ar-Aamon]

Yeah and this tweak is justified. Banshees without aspect bleed way too much.

[Spartan717]

My body is ready for this

[MaxPower]

Btw. y is nobody complaing about the fact that Wraithlords will receive a massive buff with the melee resistance, they keep it even if they upgrade any ranged weapon.

No other walker gets special treatment. I really don't know what the thought behind that is, i mean he already negates almost all transport play vs eldar and now gets even more resistant.

[Tex]

Raptor AC with powerfist should now cost 100-25 right?

Wraithlord with BL should lose melee resist as well I should think. I'm not so worried about a shurikan WL keeping it though.

[Black Relic]

Really liking the powerfist for raptor.. How much damage will the powerfist do though? Because the Raptor AC is going to have the melta gun to might out shine the BC. But I might be completely wrong. Id have to see.

[L0thar]

There's no need to name them, but he's not the only one
I usually get the power fist on FC even when the walker isnt on the field, its just freaking amazing combined iwth alacrity and halo, making it track is kinda silly

Well, there is. If you are coming with such strong claims like "I have not found one player skilled or thoughtful enough to have a balance opinion worth consideration who thinks a tracking Flesh Over Steel is OK" you better be able to support them.

Now Toil supported Raffa's view and I can respect that. At the same time Caeltos think it's a good change and Tex reaction was "we'll see".

So yeah, we'll see. It can be changed back easily, if needed.

Btw. y is nobody complaing about the fact that Wraithlords will receive a massive buff with the melee resistance, they keep it even if they upgrade any ranged weapon.

No other walker gets special treatment. I really don't know what the thought behind that is, i mean he already negates almost all transport play vs eldar and now gets even more resistant.

Actually purely from the notes it's unclear.

* All melee oriented walkers now have melee resistance
* Dreadnoughts + Venerable , Chaos Dreadnought (Claws), Deff Dredd , Carnifex and Wraithlord

It could mean even all carnifexes and SM dreads variants get the resist, or that only the melee focused variants will get it (but why then list claws for chaos dread specifically?).

A clarification would help. Just like with the temies regen, I still have no idea what is going on, if it's going to be 1 hp/s or 10 hp/s...

[MaxPower]

@Lothar:

I've asked Caeltos which walker would get the melee resistance and he specifically said that all melee orientated walkers (melee dread, hugbot for chaos, melee gk dread, the vanilla and tb carnifexes and the deff dread) would receive that buff + the wraithlord even if you'd upgrade him with a ranged weapon.

[Ar-Aamon]

Mehh at least the BL Wraithlord shouldn't get the melee resistance. I mean this walker is already cheap and is only pop 12...

[L0thar]

@Lothar:

I've asked Caeltos which walker would get the melee resistance and he specifically said that all melee orientated walkers (melee dread, hugbot for chaos, melee gk dread, the vanilla and tb carnifexes and the deff dread) would receive that buff + the wraithlord even if you'd upgrade him with a ranged weapon.

Yeah, similar to list in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=751

I was wondering if it wasn't changed since then. The WL keeping the melee resist even with upgrades is something I don't like either, but we'll see how it plays out in the end...

[Bahamut]

neither the WL with brightlance nor the DD should get melee resist really

[Asmon]

Indeed Wraithlord should lose melee resistance when equipped with BL. Quite happy with the shee tweak, it'll help when you don't want to get their aspect in T1.

About SC, the small cost reduction is not an answer to its weaknesses that make this unit a poor choice in most cases.

[BaptismByLoli]

The only tine I find myself fielding Seers is if there are simply too many (S)HI stuff for my banshees to handle. I.e Double Ogryns, Termies etc. Other than that I usually save for an Ava with that much resources

Sent from my GT-S5830i using Tapatalk 2

[Dark Riku]

Neither the wraithlord with a ranged upgrade or the deffdread should get melee resistance.

Passive damage auras are still going to kill mines? (It's really dumb.)

I was planning on making a thread about the "More Dakka" global from the Mekboy but cba atm. So I'll just leave this here, taken from GR:

About the mek, what do you think about the more dakka global?

Well currently its externally OP because it is inherently better than its closest cousin at the exact same cost.

And overall I think it performs a little better than "very good" lol.

Its a strong global, especially in t1 when shootas have their greatest level of dominance.

I feel like it shouldn't have the KB trait. It complete breaks shit.
If it really has to stay. Make it so it does 1 kb or something.

[Torpid]

I agree. More Dakka is utterly retarded.

[Raffa]

* All melee oriented walkers now have melee resistance

Ok, but please make the BL WL lose it, as it is already an amazing hybrid melee/ranged and this makes it pretty nuts. Not quite sure where this will leave hugbots, who will take a puny amount of damage from melee whilst raging, but if the aim is to promote more melee walkers by all means I like it. Ven dreads in particular will benefit from this I think.


* Drop Pod cost increased from 100 to 350
* Drop Pod now drops a squad of Tactical Space Marine squad
This is just one of many changes RE globals resulting in unit call-ins, but I'm really looking forward to see what kind of dynamic this will bring to the game. It's just too sweeping of a change across multiple races to be able to predict properly. A quick reminder about what relic did with Catachans given that you're bringing PM down from 4 models to 3


* Chainsword & Stormshield cost reduced from 120/25 to 110/20
I was pro this, but maybe that was because I hadn't seen Chainsword/SS used properly for a long time. In the past couple of games Ser Topi in particular has made a very nice T1 army of Chainsword/SS + 2 tacs + 2nd scout (both with grenades, and sometimes Elite Training). This is a very functional and solid army across all game modes that wins practically any firefight, with the grenades and FC as anti-melee. In general however, a power reduction is unnecessary I feel, given the passive ranged damage reduction on the FC, the fact that this can be used instead of the more risky ASM as a setup team counter and of course the fact it can turn a group of SM into a shooting death blob in T1.


* Librarian build time reduced from 35 to 25 seconds (Retail value)
Haha well I guess all those complaints must have had some truth in them


* Whirlwind damage has been increased to the following
- Distant from 0.3 to 0.4
- Long from 0.4 to 0.5
- Medium from 0.6 to 0.7
* Whirlwind Hunter-Killer Missile now fires from its weapon instead of its hull (?) *no longer requires line of sight*
Very much needed.


* Nurgle Worship will stack ontop of it's existing effect on SHI, Daemons and Vehicles
Thanks again, at long last, but is it a typo or deliberate that you've removed its benefits for heretics? Are they still gonna be stuck not being able to receive the healing until like 5 seconds after they stop getting pew pew'd?


* Predator Lascannon upgrade reduced from 135/35 to 100/35
* Chaos Predator Mark of Tzeentch cost reduced from 185/35 to 100/35
On the fence. It is the hardest AV that race can buy in terms of single-weapon dps and is obviously key in tank duels. For Chaos it needed to compete with the utter beast that is the MoK Predator so I agree, and despite the differences in races it's unrealistic to leave the SM laspred upgrade cost higher than for Chaos.


* Sentinel now detects in a 15 radius
Sentinels now counter mines, which are rare anyway but can be very useful. They may even be able to babysit tanks against Knob tricks. No I'm not a fan of such cheap detection, especially since some shrewder IG players may not even need to invest power into sentinels until well into T1.5. Plus despite the nuances of the race, I can't agree with 3 out of your 5 units detecting, plus a hero that can potentially get detection too - infiltration will be very hard to use vs IG.


Eldar
Agree with everything. Except banshees getting a raw, but small, hp increase. I know you think it's just Eldar hate that pops up every now and then but please they don't need any more buffs however small they are MVPs in practically every game the Eldar player uses them and wins in. Agree with the principle as they shouldn't be so fragile for 400req, and I know it's nice to use round numbers like 10%, but if hp could remain same as before...


GK
Is Maelstrom gonna do continual knockback at intervals or just a one-off? In combination with melee resistance it may well become a decent GK counter for Nobz, if that's the intention.

Finally Rhino gunner

Agree in general though.



* Warp Vomit no longer amplifies the damage the targets take
Still amazing, but slightly less bullshit. Overdue but gracias anyway.


Bugz
Looking very good indeed. Very nice changelog in general actually


Oh almost forgot about Flesh Over Steel...

[Indrid]

Heretics not getting regen from Nurgle worship in combat is intended, (please check the bug list guys!). I think it's pretty justified TBH. Melee Tics are pretty beastly in the hands of a PC.

[Torpid]

I would rather there was a modifier so that heretics still benefited from the worship just not at the same rate (as 20+ hp a second is pretty absurd), how about just letting them regen at an additional 1.5hp/s or something? It's just awkward how they gain nothing at all from worship at the moment when charging around, I mean even when out of combat it's not worth due to how long it still takes for the unit to be classified as out of combat.

[531st]

Nice. I generaly like the changes.

A bit more useful stormtrooper sergant, more useful t2 strike squad (though it will be no match for plasma tacs or tzeench CSM i think) no need for cheap not-really-worth-it melee unit in t2, usefull rhino! i predict ghetto stormtroopers ridin in their rhinos and stuff, GK dread hurricane bolter would be nice (i hope it will still have purchasable multimelta, otherwise it will be dominated by ranged AV walkers), cheaper bro captain weapons are nice etc

But 1 paladin squad, no terminator sustain other than LR and less terminator damage? I think GK gonna get slaughered in t3 melee by nobs, carnifexes, swarmlords, avatars, seer concils, SM and CSM terminators etc

And imo terminator librarian needs SHI armor to be useful. He's too slow, too fragile, too expensive and not that useful to be as good as SM librarian or weirdboy

[Kvek]

he offers MASSIVE buffs, he's great tho weirdboy is op and SM librarian is great :p

[Forestradio]

And imo terminator librarian needs SHI armor to be useful. He's too slow, too fragile, too expensive and not that useful to be as good as SM librarian or weirdboy

In a word, no.

He does great melee and ranged damage. You can one hit default heretics with his smite. And with strike squad ranged damage buffs, casting "Shrouding" on them will now be worth it.

[Tex]

I'm really curious here:
Why shouldn't the deff dread receive melee resist aura?

[Toilailee]

I'm really curious here:
Why shouldn't the deff dread receive melee resist aura?

Because hh started using them when no1 else did, changed the meta and made them op. : )

[Ace of Swords]

I'm really curious here:
Why shouldn't the deff dread receive melee resist aura?

For exactly the same reasons the BC isn't getting it, could be fine if the melee resistence came with the flamer upgraded, but said upgrade had it's cost doubled.