My thoughts about next patch changes

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
Bruce Campbell
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Bruce Campbell » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 10:19 pm

Bestn00b wrote:WSE sucks dick


We'll see if you think the same when i spider you next league
Bestn00b
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Bestn00b » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 10:30 pm

Lol I'm an SM main now. WSE sucks against FC and TM hahahahahahahah
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boss
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby boss » Thu 29 Aug, 2019 1:24 am

Alright since I got ig notes that Adila done for next patch im going to have to add more ideas since well just read them .
To Ig nerfs
Commi lord mine drop to t2, GM cost from 210 to 230 reinforce time from 2 sec to 3 sec Sent no more detection cost from 330 to 350 mortar shall windup from 1.8 sec to 2.5 sec and Inq call in from 200req to 250 req

Frist let start with what you got right or should I say we got right for you

Inquisitor storm trooper calling in going from 200 rec to 250 rec, well done you realise that storms being cheaper than scouts is really dumb shame I had to tell you this.

Guardsman reinforce time going to 2 to 3 sec this prob should go to 4 secs as this would nerf the gm and chimera combo a lot, again shame Bruce had to tell you this change and you didn't think of it yourself.

Guardsman cost increase to 230 from 210. Ok now a lot of people say gm are overpowed atm I would say if that so why there no straight up gm builds no sents, why would you need them gm are op after all? then quote Torpid "you need the Sentinel tho" and there goes the whole gm op thing least I say in t1.
If gm are so overpowed then you won't need sents at all in t1, gm a basic range unit that can beat ungraded range units and cap with repair. Gm went to 210 rec to make 3 gm builds viable in the first place. T2 however the commissar leader should be 25 power at least prob even 30 he amazing for his cost.

Now lets talk about the meta builds atm for ig least from a 1v1 point there Bestnoob build 3 gm and a sent, 2 gm and sent fight with his hero while his 3rd gm goes around and caps maybe even power bash with flamers, this reminders me of old builds like 3 heretics and csm or 3 scouts and 1 tac one of those starting units goes around and cap while the rest fights, here the thing tho tacs and csm can't be repaired they have to retreat sooner or later sentinels don't and make gm seem op.
Infact you want any proof of this go watch Adila vs bestnoob league game, Bestnoob lost his sentinel in t1 then started losing map cos gm don't trade well vs upgrade das in t1 and then lost the game

Then there's Toilailee build 2 gm and 2 sents with a 1.5 unit sometimes he don't even build power he just aims to baselock you in 10 mins with 2 sents again this cos gm op or sents op? Like I say if gm are so overpower in t1 do no sents builds and shows us. I wrote a lot on this but it needed it.

Chimera so long you sort out ig t1 there should be no reason for chimera to be 65 power back to 60 power, in most game that 5 power cost only stops it coming out by like 8 secs or so and why did it go up again "We see too many Chimera rushes but we also don't see any Mobile Bases at the same time". Like I say sort out ig t1 and we stop seeing chimera rush, also on mobile base point if you want to see more of them why not take the brood nest heath regen aura which is like what 1 hp per sec and put that on the base then you see it more cos why you want to retreat to a point with no heath?

Sentinels least you now going to make them cost 350 rec shame it take's about 10 people telling you this should have done it last patch and removing the detection is worthless it only come into game's like 1 out of 10 games maybe if that it never broke it.
Even with the cost increase you need to nerf some of its stats or something cos making it cost only 20 rec more only delays a power node or gm leader by like what 10 secs or so not a whole lot so yea some stat nerfs is needed less damage or something.

Heavy weapon squad now this unit was talked about by Art early and he right they are kinda bad cos since the more models means more vulnerable to aoe and faster model kills since less hp per guy one simply change would be make them 4 guys again.

Alright dats alot of stuff for ig ranting and stuff but its needed I say since a lot of players hate ig atm including me I don't want them to become unplayable just reworked with soft nerfs to the right units and like I say before if gm are so op show us no sent builds gogo.
Forums great more stuff to talk about.
Antandron
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Antandron » Thu 29 Aug, 2019 7:11 am

My 2cents about IG:

Free Stuff = OP Stuff. Agree?
GM 2for1 reinforce is Free Stuff because the Sergeant costs 85/0 when he comes with 2 more GM worth 35/0 each. So effectively the Sergeant model is 15/0 and the 2for1 is 0/0!
Combined with GM 20hp/s repair makes the GM+Chimera combo too strong and improves Sentinels and other vehicles.
I like that the Sentinel has detection removed. Could it also be stunnable? Strange that it is immune to stuns.
Chimera rushing is permitted by IG being so power-light in T1. Could some of their upgrades cost more power to prevent this braindead T2 Chimera rush that happens every other game? The Sergeant is a good candidate for a power cost.
Alotar
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Alotar » Thu 29 Aug, 2019 11:38 am

Ok my point on libririan was made when i was in rage mode activated. You guys probably right, i probably don't know how to counter him yet. (Still learning the meta i'm kinda new)

Although i still think Elder too strong overhall and none of you contested yet my point. (Except WSE, but i'm not convinced, just check the win rate with him of the top 10 players, you'll see thats it is one of the highest amoung ESL player.)

I will not complain about IG because the points made above clearly will nerf them (deserved in my opinion).
PianoMan
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby PianoMan » Thu 29 Aug, 2019 1:11 pm

the winrate is around pretty normal for the top players on ESL cept frenzy but frenzy farms noobs for esl points and calls unranked against decent players to hide his losses so :l
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Adila
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Adila » Thu 29 Aug, 2019 4:07 pm

Alright, thx for the little review, would have been nice if you would get in yourself into the main discord to gain this info and not send in bruce, you dont have the balls to do that so its fine.But I kinda expected to find it on the Forum shortly he wouldnt be just there after never caring to say a word in there. Also neither of this came from bruce dont know what extra stuff he told you, you just made up things to try to make yourself right despretly again.

Yes ofc many of those were mentioned on the Forums, and I as the Balance Lead have to put them together to a reasanable level with some own ideas and a few extras from my Team, the reinforce suggestion came from Toil and not from Bruce btw, everyone agreed so far on them pretty much 100% only you finding a way to cry about the gm nerf in some way ? Ig rely on the sent gm synergy and no the sent is not the extreme problem its the gm eco which has been in for years now and now you relalize most top players who finsihed at the top of League happen to be ig mains, took a while I have to say, so I also didnt take a extreme step in the first patch where it was very clear that they overperfom, I would have if I would have seen a bit more testing and actually usefull feedback not just the same hatespeech from the same guy who did delete me on steam as soon as I became balance lead and you didnt really try talk to me dirctly after. ( But whatever he deleted me 2 times before that for even more random reasons, this time it had at least some kind of sense to me).

For all the guys who do rant in here are not in the main discord where most of it does get adressed and the patchnotes proposele has been up for long enough sth like 2 weeks and after that a Beta with again 2 weeks testing, it had only 4 testers who had interest to try stuff and make sure its bugfree, if you have time to rent you have time to help out with testing and giving decent feedback without insulting anyone which I still fail to see in a single post from you boss.

I did consider you at the start also as a advisor, but its hard if you just sit in your own discord and talk shit about me all day and on the Forums, with this rant post you just closed the doors for yourself for quite some time. And what makes you think that you already do my job, posting a few changes on the forum which happen to be discussed many times land on my list and you think it has been your job ? pls. This changelog you posted of ig there is written since good 3 weeks now, and ya there was discussion in the Team to make chimera 60 power again with those gm nerfs, if its gets in isnt 100 certain yet. Nothing is hidden you just have to learn to talk normally and not insult others in everything you post, work on yourself and maybe you end up as a Advisor sooner or later when you calm the fuck down already.

As Indrid did mention there is 0 sense to post a unfinished log with things that might change in matter of days or hours and we havent discussed enough yet thats why it would take some time. I do try to impove that process trough every patch but the community also needs to step it up and not hide in the corner and send this prik at us to rent and hope it does change anything, many ppl are scared or simply dont want to talk to you since your attitude scares them off and its mind boggling to me how there still ppl exist who are at a decent level themselves just repeat the bs talk you come up with instead of using their own brains or adding their own ideas on the main discord or the Forum. Just stop the ranting and be productive instead, if you cant, your attidude issue remains your own biggest enemy.

Sorry for the long post
and thx for the public vote which was apparently needet to know who is balance lead.

Edited by Atlas for the sake of us all.
PianoMan
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby PianoMan » Thu 29 Aug, 2019 6:10 pm

nice post m'lord adila, very easy to read indeed actually fucking worse than boss wtf
maybe fix the mods you have in your main discord and it's gonna be a decent fucking place, instead of letting a power-hungry midget change everyone's nicknames every 5 hours because haha i am a very funny individual and my homosexual activity should be praised
who is the "Team" and who are the people that are scared of a raging manchild, though i do have to agree the amount of brainwashed special people boss has on his side is quite ridiculous
Antandron
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Antandron » Thu 29 Aug, 2019 7:44 pm

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Adila
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Adila » Thu 29 Aug, 2019 7:58 pm

xD Usually I go over my post several times before I post it, that was just having to get all of this thoughts out as quick as possible
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boss
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby boss » Thu 29 Aug, 2019 8:14 pm

1 Adila I didn't send in the Bruce boy he just posted the ig changes for me to look at if you don't like that then whatever and people call me a dictator.

2. I don't want to join back in your discord I learned the last time I came back, you had no idea what you are doing your with patchlogs before 2.9 2 you had to ask me to make sure the changes looked fine cos you wasn't sure for yourself I told you it was not going to do anything 2.9.2 cos most of the changes were pointless you just flat out ignored me. So not only you wanted me to check that your patch was fine but then ignored me instead.... and you wonder why I left?

3. Bruce came up with the gm reinforce time increase before Toil even came back into the mod. Im pretty sure Freeman wanted this as well before he left as he hated chimeras and the combo between gm and it, I might be wrong on that tho was a while ago he stopped playing.

4. Gm costing more rec at the start is a bad change gm themselves are not op in t1 I say, first they went to 210 rec to make 3 gm builds work you want to now undo this change cos 3 gm and sent build mainly by Bestnoob atm. You say sent does not allowed this build to work right then how come you beat Bestnoob in league by killing it?
His build fell apart as soon as you killed his sent as gm lose to upgrade range units and such to a point he had to get 1.5 units and rebuy his sent but he was already stuck in t1 while you was getting a falcon and he concede https://dawnofwar.info/esl/match/39490871 8 min game btw but yes t1 gm are so op right.
If you want to nerf gm look at there t2 commissar leader is 20 power he cheap as well not only a good combat leader but reinforce 3 for 1 and more guys to screen for him 25 or 30 power.

5. Everyone least agreed with stop hiding changes and ideas on discord and use the forums more I been saying this since the balance discord was made not a lot of players use discord let alone listen to changes.

6.So far I not insulted anyone in this thread yet worse thing I said is shame you didn't listen early, I want to keep this thread clean for everyone to talk about what they want as well for next patch not turn into a shitstorm.

And lastly the poll the one where you had to get swift to reset it then, go beg players to vote for you and your bosting about this salty guy? but now you got to show everyone who voted for you are a balance lead and not a useless lead which you fail judging by your last changelogs. So good luck you going to need it and don't repost to this is for next patch ideas for everyone.
Forums great more stuff to talk about.
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Adeptus Noobus
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Adeptus Noobus » Thu 29 Aug, 2019 8:41 pm

And I thought Cornholio and I were the anti-love couple of the community :shock:
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Asmon
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Asmon » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 12:08 am

To keep on with the IG ideas, I agree that gm should not cost more from HQ since they are indeed weak before upgrades. I find the longer reinforce time a good idea (actually it is something that has been changed several times in vanilla iirc to balance them).

Some additional propositions:

- Increase the xp given per guard killed. Atm you kill tons of gm and yet your units barely level.

- Lower the speed at which sentinels un-capture points. It's another way to tackle the sentinel without reducing its fighting power, and will mostly hurt the 2 sent build (that already struggle a bit with map control). Maybe even only allow sent to un-cap with the GP upgrade.
Atlas

Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Atlas » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 4:27 am

Asmon wrote:To keep on with the IG ideas, I agree that gm should not cost more from HQ since they are indeed weak before upgrades. I find the longer reinforce time a good idea (actually it is something that has been changed several times in vanilla iirc to balance them).

Some additional propositions:

- Increase the xp given per guard killed. Atm you kill tons of gm and yet your units barely level.

- Lower the speed at which sentinels un-capture points. It's another way to tackle the sentinel without reducing its fighting power, and will mostly hurt the 2 sent build (that already struggle a bit with map control). Maybe even only allow sent to un-cap with the GP upgrade.


Xp yield is an interesting idea. As to the capture speed that could work. However, I'm only so-so if you could implement uncapture-only as a modifier from an upgrade. I'm pretty sure there's a capture_enable_modifier though. I suspect it could work, but it would need testing.

Also Adila wtf man, that was a nightmare to sift through.
Chokolata
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Chokolata » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 6:36 am

Perhaps add a power cost to GM sergeants and increase their leader upkeep a tad?
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BbBoS
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby BbBoS » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 7:28 am

Just an idea for a Sentinel change, not sure if it is possible in the DoW2 engine. Also, the 50% health change is just used as an example, the actual percentage can be different, this is more of a concept:

- Reduce the health of the Sentinel to 375
- Give the sentinel some sort of armor plating upgrade which increases the Sentinel's max health from 375 to 750
- The sentinel can come with this upgrade by default, this allows its max health to be 750
- If the sentinel loses too much health (drops below 50% for example), it will lose this upgrade, meaning its maximum health is now down to 375
- The upgrade will now need to be re-purchased again for a small cost (25 req) and will be more vulnerable during this time, it can have something like a 10-15 second cooldown so the Sentinel is forced to back away or the IG player can be risky and keep it in the fight. Ideally, once the upgrade is purchased, the health of the Sentinel will remain the same number value as opposed to it remaining at the same percentage.

Just an idea, so you can have a Sentinel that can be "bleed". Values can be changed to anything else.
Antandron
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Antandron » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 7:49 am

Atlas wrote:
Asmon wrote:To keep on with the IG ideas, I agree that gm should not cost more from HQ since they are indeed weak before upgrades. I find the longer reinforce time a good idea (actually it is something that has been changed several times in vanilla iirc to balance them).

Some additional propositions:

- Increase the xp given per guard killed. Atm you kill tons of gm and yet your units barely level.

- Lower the speed at which sentinels un-capture points. It's another way to tackle the sentinel without reducing its fighting power, and will mostly hurt the 2 sent build (that already struggle a bit with map control). Maybe even only allow sent to un-cap with the GP upgrade.


Xp yield is an interesting idea..


XP is related to Red, yes? More red = more XP? Then standardising red a little ensures that players are getting an appropriate amount of XP for the units they are killing.
Atlas

Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Atlas » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 8:30 am

Antandron wrote:XP is related to Red, yes? More red = more XP? Then standardising red a little ensures that players are getting an appropriate amount of XP for the units they are killing.


No, red and xp are mostly unrelated. They only causally have a correlation but in terms of coding, none at all!
hiveminion
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby hiveminion » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 9:06 am

BbBoS wrote:Just an idea for a Sentinel change, not sure if it is possible in the DoW2 engine. Also, the 50% health change is just used as an example, the actual percentage can be different, this is more of a concept:

- Reduce the health of the Sentinel to 375
- Give the sentinel some sort of armor plating upgrade which increases the Sentinel's max health from 375 to 750
- The sentinel can come with this upgrade by default, this allows its max health to be 750
- If the sentinel loses too much health (drops below 50% for example), it will lose this upgrade, meaning its maximum health is now down to 375
- The upgrade will now need to be re-purchased again for a small cost (25 req) and will be more vulnerable during this time, it can have something like a 10-15 second cooldown so the Sentinel is forced to back away or the IG player can be risky and keep it in the fight. Ideally, once the upgrade is purchased, the health of the Sentinel will remain the same number value as opposed to it remaining at the same percentage.

Just an idea, so you can have a Sentinel that can be "bleed". Values can be changed to anything else.


This is a good idea, and it's how IG vehicle armor upgrades used to work.
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boss
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby boss » Mon 02 Sep, 2019 2:19 pm

Guardsman give the same xp as heretics or gaunts but both of these races don't get a t1 baneblade I mean sentinels hard to tell the two apart.

Sentienls and a lot of ig vehicles used to be able to get extra Armor as a cost buy either added heath if it was lost or added energy after it was full so it made them even harder to kill.
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