My thoughts about next patch changes

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
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boss
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My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby boss » Sat 24 Aug, 2019 9:40 pm

Well since Im not in the balance discord I post my ideas on the forums instead for next patch and what I think should happen, let me know what you guys think and add you own stuff as well. Cos atm I don't rate what going on for changes much lately


Chaos
Overall chaos have always been in a good spot and prob one of the most played race however some units do need looking at.

Chaos Sorcerer
Doombolts firing overwalls is really dumb on some maps I don't mind the firing out of sight not but overwalls should be change back. Also there was talk about a 3rd weapon a while back for him to help deal with single hero's idk what happened to it but would be nice to look at it again.

Noxious Cloud
This really need a better indicator, one atm is so bad you can hide it very easy and if you spot it too late goodbye units.

Chosen Plague Marines
I call this unit a meme cos it should have not been added in the first place, a defensive melee unit but gotten a lot of nerfs in this role to a point why bother getting them? I think if you want them to be this defensive melee unit role should prob add a soft damage pulse aura around them like icon of nurgle like 5 damage every 5 secs or just an aura around them.

Plague Marines
This unit keeps getting the wrong changes each patch to a point where only the missile snare good now, there bolters got nerf again, a reload time nerf and yea and how does any of this solve the fact they are too hard to kill and drop models? It don't you just fucking around with the weapons instead. How about making them 4 guys again so each model has less heath and die faster, reduce the slow aura around them to 20% again and remove the reload time nerf and bolter nerf this would change plague marines.

Chaos Dreadnought Mark of Tzeentch
Frenzied barrage damage are removed a while back which I did not realise. Since it loses most of it's infantry damage when you get the upgrade it's barrage should least get some damage with it back.

Bloodletters
This is more of my thing since they got there passive teleport instead of a melee charge feels like a nerf to me for a long time idk if any of you guys feels this way or is it just me?


Eldar
Abit more harder race to learn yet you get reward with great units.

Farseer Rune Armor
Now this got nerfed abit last patch yet not change to where if you kill her it stops why? she already has to channel it so just make it stop if you kill her it's like grav blade if you kill her while units are lifted they take no damage once its done.

Heart of Darkness
While im happy to see the retune of old heart of darkness it's kinda meh would be nice if it gave some heath as well.

Dire Avenger or guardians
I really hate the fact that elite mod reskin the guardians into dire avengers, it just confuses people to a point you forgot the dire leader which is a warlock gives wraithsight and yea its just bad they are guardians not dires change them back.
Warlock leaders was also talked about getting soft detection like sents think it would be an ok change.

Rangers
Now idk what you guys think about the rangers changes costing more but less on the upgrade, know some people like the change but don't at the same time would be nice to know your thoughts.

Fire Dragon
Now this unit prob not been added but I guess they are here to stay but atm they are meh to meh and need a rework to be viable and fit a role without being op. Now my thoughts would be make them like melta storms, so melta bomb, more heath cos only 180 heath, removed dragons fury and give fleet of foot instead and less rate of fire so more single burst of there fusion guns. Least some of my thoughts for them idk about you guys.

Warp Spider poop spiders
Now since this unit was "changed" I say nerfed they are barely viable in games eversince you not only made the haywire cooldown go up but you increase the upkeep on them as well. The whole point on warp spiders is you don't want to lose models now you get fucked for this with more upkeep so you want to lose models but then you pay loads with reinforcing them so you fucked both ways and hence why you don't get them. The only thing I say is revert there changes.

Seer Council
If you go for soft detection for warlock leaders would be nice if seers can detect in t3 since 5 warlocks.

D-Cannon
Atm the only good thing about them is the singularity is prob about that get's looked at, but the weapon the cannon is really bad having to hope your oppent stands in the aoe thing to get decent damage is crap and don't work much at all that's if it hits the accuracy of this thing firing is all over the place. This need a rework cos atm without singularity the worst arty and its t3 great its prob one of the reason eldar late game gets called weak by some cos of this t3 unit is just poop.


Imperial Guard
Since this was the last race relic added ofc it is broken and have been since retail only taken players this long to find out, very strong and hard too imposable to beat atm.

Hellfury Strike
Idk why this thing was buffed last patch last thing Inquisitor needed was her t2 nuke to be improved, light infantry just die now to this thing and she didn't need another way to press delete on you.

Storm Trooper call in
This thing needs to cost more rec atm it only 200 wtf cheaper than scouts, 250 or 300 rec.

Sentinel
Probable the most toxic unit ever in the game and atm one of the big problems with playing vs ig you have to invest so much into dealing with it but at the same time they are teching to 6 min chimeras good only retail stats coming back. Now I heard you going to remove the soft detect on it idk how this going to do anything at all other than make you look really stupid.

Now you could increase the sent to 350 rec then lower its upkeep to balance it out, would also like to see it can't decap points till it get the stomp upgrade idk if you can do that, increase the stomp cooldown it's like 20 secs make it 30 or 40 and would also like to see its damage get lowed that prob won't happen tho just my ideas cos atm sent are why 6 min chimeras are a thing no need to invest into 1,5 units.

Artillery Spotter
I would really like this unit to get detection and I don't mean t2 flares, detection in t1 they are not a combat unit and would make ig builds abit more fun rather than always going catas all the time least I do for to spot stuff.

Cadian Kasrkin
This unit needs the weapon expertise back to ever be used in t3 cos atm they are barely competing to leman spam really poor t3 unit which storm troops do more damage anyways so yea. bring back weapon expertise.



Space Marines
In a much better spot unlike retail and can be a death ball once you get going but can go wrong so fast. I have like this 3 rule thing for them after your 3rd fucked up you prob lost as sm.

Scout Squad Sergeant
This leader for detection, his heath and a hit and miss nade yet he 25 power very dear for a squad leader with a useless bolter you can say die last but all t1 leaders are die last so reduce his power cost by 5 would seen fair cos he not worth 25 power at all.

Tactical Marine They Shall Know No Fear
This got reduce to 35% from 50% last patch for some reason cos tacs can hold back melee units for a while I guess and someone cried about it I guess, not only you have to take damage to charge it up but it often won't let them beat other melee units unless they are badly damage anyways. This change should get revert

Librarian
I used to use the librarian alot but I found better ways to play sm t2 nowadays and librarian just don't fit much of a role worst subhero atm, his combat it meh he only has 1 buff to start out with and his smite is meh as well, smite might as well scale with his levels or be improved with his force staff indrid came up with that one and sounds cool.



Orks
Very good race with great damage/combo and buffs

Kommando Nob Betta Kombat Kit
Tooltip update gives no energy and give 175 heath instead of 100.

Stormboyz
This unit I call shitboys for the fact they bleed you to death the longer the game goes on, they really need some help with this bleed so how about make them back up to 400 rec and 40 power and reduce the upkeep or reinforce cost instead cos atm it's not the fact you can't get them but it's the bleed after that kills this unit.

Deff Dread
I like the deff dread alot as a walker but I would like to see its old heath again the flamer upgrade so back to 1050 heath so 140rec 30 power for this?

Battlewagon
Battlewagon prob one of the weakest t3 unit's for orks for a few reason past nerfs, needing units to work to full and the fact it often takes a hamming and spend so much time repairing, I like to see maybe a ability to self repair for it like 400 heath retuned after 20 or 30 secs while disabling weapons and moment.


Tyranids
My main race and so long you use synapse well you should be able to do well.

Lictor Alpha Adrenal Glands and Toxic Cysts
Tooltip updates adrenal gives 150 heath not 100 and toxic cysts give 15hp not 10hp

Spore Mines
Now this unit has been used/ abused/ trolled alot in 1v1 and it works at the start of the game since some race have a hard time just to kill 1 unit at a time let alone 3 or 4>>torpid. To help stop this they should cost red to build from base to allowe early game to not be so toxic vs this start and would slow down spore mine spam since you need red for each unit, tyranids have red easy alot of the time so this change would only impart the first 3 mins. I say so 20 red


Venom Brood
Since the damage buff they got some players are not happy with it. I would prob say reduce the damage buff to 5 instead of 10 and see what happened what you guys think?


Swarmlord
However much I like to use this unit it's just a bad super unit and has been for a long time, bad combat, not much support and not very tough. Only good thing about it is speed synapse being able to reinforce from this means very litte since most races get transport and can much early so. I would like so to see this unit get splash damage as least would make it least useful in combat and somewhat killly cos atm you better for just getting fexs.



And lastly I won't comment about grey nights since most people just want them to be removed and I am one of them so there you go my ideas and such for next patch for each race.
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby RiceMuncher » Sun 25 Aug, 2019 9:31 am

Generally agree with most of the sentiments expressed by boss.

As a SM player, SM does get punished exceedingly hard for mistakes compared to other races.

I would like to add to the voices that gk v sm mu is broken.

In particular, the strikers range dps is insane. I dont understand why the range upgrade got a massive boost to damage just because no one used them. From 40% to 65% means an effective 55% extra damage granted compared to the previous patch. Please revert back or go to 50% andor increase power cost.

Also just a sm biased thing. Can we reduce the upkeep of tacs (seriously ruins eco to go 2plus more tacs) whilst up compared to other shooters. Orrrr
Maybe boost their dmg resistance to range fire by like 5%.
I dont rlly get the idea around tacs getting outshot in t1 by upgraded shooters

Cheers
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boss
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby boss » Sun 25 Aug, 2019 6:03 pm

RiceMuncher wrote:Generally agree with most of the sentiments expressed by boss.

As a SM player, SM does get punished exceedingly hard for mistakes compared to other races.

I would like to add to the voices that gk v sm mu is broken.

In particular, the strikers range dps is insane. I dont understand why the range upgrade got a massive boost to damage just because no one used them. From 40% to 65% means an effective 55% extra damage granted compared to the previous patch. Please revert back or go to 50% andor increase power cost.

Also just a sm biased thing. Can we reduce the upkeep of tacs (seriously ruins eco to go 2plus more tacs) whilst up compared to other shooters. Orrrr
Maybe boost their dmg resistance to range fire by like 5%.
I dont rlly get the idea around tacs getting outshot in t1 by upgraded shooters

Cheers




I don't know much about gk stuff but Im sure psybolts ammunition the range upgrade got a 25% damage buff for strike squad cos nemesis focus the melee upgrade was more broken before, least adila used his brain and increase its cost after listen to me however cos no one gotten range upgrade he wanted to make it more brought so lets increase the damage of the range upgrade so people buy it more :lol: :lol: :lol: retarded reasoning/
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Bruce Campbell » Sun 25 Aug, 2019 6:24 pm

Pretty much agree with everything you wrote
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Torpid » Sun 25 Aug, 2019 6:27 pm

I mostly agree with you here Boss. Where I don't specifically mention something I ever agree with you or do not have a strong opinion regardless.

I do think that the passive jump for BLs was a nerf but i think it is fine because BLs are just so fantastic under worship. Oddly enough I think BLs are one of the better balanced units in the game atm.

I very much agree with you on guardians/dire avenger thing in elite. I have no idea why that was changed, seemed to be a 'just cus' change. It's confusing to new players, I've had so many complain about it. It also means we have wasted the dire avenger model and cannot use it elsewhere. They also have just wrong voicelines which is not professional. And the way the unit performs in the early game is a bit of a disgrace to craftworld eldar everywhere for dire avengers to be on par with shoota boys or guardsmen... smh. Terrible.

I thought the ranger change was a horrible decision. Defeating more or less every reason why I made them 6 pop in the first place. They were not meant to be strong out of the gate and frankly in their previous iteration at 20 power they weren't. I never heard anybody complaining about 20 power rangers, merely their performance after the upgrade, but even then that complaint had stopped in the last patch anyway. No idea why it was changed but it has just made the KN and LA MU vs eldar harder.

FDs should have a rework. I'd like to see them in T1. Eldar do need more T1 diversity, the only real alternative I see is dire avengers being seperated from guardians and make into a t1.5 unit.

On IG, it's clear they're broken at both low level and high level but I am thoroughly convinced sentinels are not the problem. 2 sents is not even a particularly good build. IT's all about 1x sent and 3x GM. GM are the problem they make both the sent and chim too good. Reinforce and repair strats are a key mechanic of IG though and so I would not like them nerfed instead I would like the GM to just not be so economically efficient. Increasing the pop cost on the sarge himself to 3 from 2 would be a good start and it goes without saying making GM cost 230 by default not 210. Also, sents should be 350 to start with.

I also think that spotters are too strong. The mortar shell comes down too quick and does too much kb, it basically has no counterplay and forces a squad to retreat instantly. I'd like to see either an increase in the amount of time it takes for the mortar shell to actually land or reducing the kb strength on the mortar.

In terms of units to buff in IG I would like to see some more manticore, ogryn and kasrkin buffed. Only a small thing for ogryns though, maybe marginally more hp.

For SM, I think scouts are the only thing I disagree with. Scouts are great. Well worth the 25 power.

I like your stormboy idea. Should make them scale better into the late game.

On spore mines I dislike the idea of red costing mines as I think it is vital to get them out early to keep that nid pressure up and help them with garrisons, rather to stop them being so easily abusable I'd prefer they just did significantly less damage to units in retreat.
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Torpid » Sun 25 Aug, 2019 6:28 pm

Also there's something very strange going on with psybolts. It isn't a simple 65% damage boost or w/e, because psybolts grants a new weapon type that also shoots faster... so the actual DPS boost is closer to 100%...

Why?
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Sex - Murder - Art » Sun 25 Aug, 2019 7:48 pm

boss's post is generally true so I will only point of the stuff that I don't agree or make some additions to it.

Bloodletters should get their charge back. Shot teleport makes them terrible at retreat kills. I was never a fan of this thing anyway and never understood why it is even a thing. I also strongly agree with Plague Marine suggestions.

When it comes to Eldar, I have to say something about this ''soft detection'' bullshit. Soft detections are just making mine plays useless, since they only activate when you step on them. It should never exist in the game. Same goes for your Seer Council suggestion.

Spotter detection is just unnecessery. And no, it wouldn't be fun. Why would it be? Nobody goes for HWT novadays anyway, and yet you want any T1.5 unit you buy to have detection?

Sorry, but I have to strongly disagree about Scout Sergant. It makes them a lot tankier than what they are, decreases bleed ungodly. Yes, other small leaders are also cheap and kind of meh, but Scout Sergant really adds a lot to SM when he is combined with Elite Training or other SM combos.

Only change I can ask for Stormboys would be chaning Nob Leaders 2 handed axe into his knife again. I played some retail games with orks, and this retail Nob gets kills, much more often than elite Nob. Do you know why? Because it has a long ass animaton, and Stormboyz are terrible at chasing, it just can't land a fucking hit.
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Schepp himself » Mon 26 Aug, 2019 9:13 am

Torpid wrote:[...]

I very much agree with you on guardians/dire avenger thing in elite. I have no idea why that was changed, seemed to be a 'just cus' change. It's confusing to new players, I've had so many complain about it. It also means we have wasted the dire avenger model and cannot use it elsewhere. They also have just wrong voicelines which is not professional. And the way the unit performs in the early game is a bit of a disgrace to craftworld eldar everywhere for dire avengers to be on par with shoota boys or guardsmen... smh. Terrible.
[...]
FDs should have a rework. I'd like to see them in T1. Eldar do need more T1 diversity, the only real alternative I see is dire avengers being seperated from guardians and make into a t1.5 unit.
[...]


...an idea just struck me that I would like to share with you. There is the possibility to teleport in Sternguard veterans and change the Force commander to a Terminator Force Commander. How about giving the Guardians a T2 option to teleport in a squad of Dire Avengers instead of the Guardian squad if it wasn't updated until then. The Dire Avengers could have two Aspects (like the Shees) with one being a more defensive one and one being a more offensive one. One maybe debuffing the enemy and the other increasing their damage output and the Exarch getting different weapons (shimmershield or twin-linked avenger catapults).

Yeah. Just a quick idea thrown in. Other than that I like the changes suggested by you, boss. Even though I'm not an expert player or even a good one.

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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Atlas » Tue 27 Aug, 2019 1:07 am

Cool, ty for the post boss! Think these ideas are being discussed as we start to kick into production for the next patch.
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Oddnerd » Tue 27 Aug, 2019 1:21 am

I like most of these suggestions - I'd at least like to see some of them tested.

Edit - One thing you didn't address would be the redundancy between FD melta bombs and haywire grenade on WS. Two units with a snare nade seems a bit much.
Last edited by Oddnerd on Tue 27 Aug, 2019 2:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Shroom
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Shroom » Tue 27 Aug, 2019 1:55 am

t1 fire dragons, run that by me again. how do you put a melta unit into t1?
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Atlas » Tue 27 Aug, 2019 2:25 am

Shroom wrote:t1 fire dragons, run that by me again. how do you put a melta unit into t1?


There was talk about it basically becoming a flamer squad in t1 that upgrades to t2 meltas. But that is one of like 10 different rework ideas of them :/

FDs have been the most difficult unit to work with for a while now.
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby boss » Tue 27 Aug, 2019 3:31 am

Me and torpid was talking about fire dragons changes early todays idk if he put on then your discord but these would sounds good I say.
Dragon fury removed
Aspect of the dragon added grants 20 more heath per guy plus melta bomb 50/20 rec power?
Fleet of Foot added as well, one question would it reduce melta bomb damage when used? fleet of foot that is
So with dragons fury gone no more 100% fotm and more dps since less weapon cooldown 50% btw and now you have to time melta bombs with there fusion guns Least these are some of our ideas we came up with.

As for haywire and melta bomb stacking atm no one gets warp spiders since the changes "nerfs" so I would not worry too much, also would cost loads I say for av the 2 units combined. Most race gets 2 snare as well only eldar and orks don't and well giving orks snares is hmmmmm.

As for spore mines torpid it pains me you spam them early game as a tyranid main they was not designed to be used this way, tyranids don't need more way to keeps up pressure only race that can match this is ig or orks. You change would only impact having to retreat or die won't stop spam or coming out early which is what there problem is atm hence why red cost would solve this.
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Atlas » Tue 27 Aug, 2019 6:29 am

Schepp himself wrote:*Schepp's talk about Guardians/Dire Avengers*


It might have been mentioned a couple times but honestly, a lot of the Guardians talk more revolves around lore than the balance of the unit itself. Still, your note could be a compromise!

And don't worry if I'm not quoting ALL the thoughts in here. They're being read!
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Chokolata » Tue 27 Aug, 2019 6:43 am

My 2c on changes that could be made:

ELDAR

Warp Spiders
- reduce warp spider req cost from 440 to 400 and adjust reinforcement
- buff exarch HP from 200 to 250

Dark Reapers
- reduce dark reaper req cost from 440 to 400 and adjust reinforcement
- reaper aspect also increases health by 15%
(- turn the second ability (the KB barage) into a single target damage/snare if Dragons are removed)

Fire Dragons
- remove them; alternatively the other options seems ok that people suggested

Seer Council
- Reduce purchase cost from 550/100 to 450/100; adjust reinforce
- add a 50 power tag to Farseer seer council (it is very cheap at 300/0/250)

WSE
- add an ability to WSE with power blades - teleport and spin to win on location doing knockdown ; basically proc his special attack and damage but as a target-able ability
- perhaps add repair? maybe make him comparable-ish to TM, PM or Mek. He did lose a lot of combat prowess, maybe add some utility

ORKS

Shootas
- turn the passive Nob tier 2 damage bonus into a cheapish upgrade - 50/15 - intent of taxing Ork tier 2 a bit and adding clarity

IG

Sentinel
- increase purchase cost to 380 from 300 (is it 300?)
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Atlas » Tue 27 Aug, 2019 6:55 am

Ty Chokolota! Some of those ideas I haven't heard before.

(And the Sent is 330 as of 2.9.2 but your point is understood.)
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Torpid » Tue 27 Aug, 2019 2:40 pm

Schepp himself wrote:...an idea just struck me that I would like to share with you. There is the possibility to teleport in Sternguard veterans and change the Force commander to a Terminator Force Commander. How about giving the Guardians a T2 option to teleport in a squad of Dire Avengers instead of the Guardian squad if it wasn't updated until then. The Dire Avengers could have two Aspects (like the Shees) with one being a more defensive one and one being a more offensive one. One maybe debuffing the enemy and the other increasing their damage output and the Exarch getting different weapons (shimmershield or twin-linked avenger catapults).

Yeah. Just a quick idea thrown in. Other than that I like the changes suggested by you, boss. Even though I'm not an expert player or even a good one.

Greets
Schepp himself


Ireally like this because it allows us to add dire avengers as a new t2 infantry unit whilst still keeping fire dragons or even another unit in T2. It'd be a really cool way to add the more elite eldar skirmishers into the game and could feel immersive if done correctly. They're known for versatility after all.
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Oddnerd » Tue 27 Aug, 2019 11:52 pm

The Guardian --> DA upgrade is a neat way to bring back guardians. Would DAs lose their previous support abilities or would this be a flat upgrade to combat stats?
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby boss » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 1:31 am

Guardians to dire Avenger upgrade sounds fine as for how they be, least on table top not only do they have better weapons but better amour and diffent traits and such. They probably would lose shields, nades and stuff but be given a whole bunch of abilitys instead.

Warp spider Exarch already has 275 hp so and they cost like 430 now I think but yea they need help whatever happens.

Dark reaper aspect was buffed this patch damage was increase to 25%. I don't think the tooltip was updated tho, giving them more heath I can maybe see but less cost I would say no.

Farseer seer council calling 500 rec and 300 or 250? red idk where you get 300 rec from.

Shoota boys Nob leader passive damage buff was reduce to 5% from 15% this patch, having to pay more for 5% damage would be a kick in the teeth, thank me for the nerf btw.

Psybolts Ammunition Gives 110% according to Morgan Torpid so yea :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: great change.

Spotters getting detection would mean you are not force to get catas all the time unlike other races where you get detection
just from buying a leader. There should be more options for this kind of stuff but if you think this that bad of a change then alright.

Eldar are another race where there detection is limited to 1 unit rangers and it got fucked with this patch idk it that good change or a bad one yet but even so soft detection would be given to the warlock leaders and they don't come in till t2, you still have the whole of t1 if you really want to make mines work for you. But like I said if you don't think these 2 race's deserve more options for spotting then alright.
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Shroom » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 11:14 am

uh
fire dragon fleet of foot: how about no, a big no
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Alotar » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 1:32 pm

I agree with some of the point above.

SM :
But guys seriously the librian is just so fucking op in 1v1. It can deals with most heroes in 1v1, has an ok cost and what is REALLY op: that its canceled the setup time of weapon team. It just turned an ok unit to something that can kill everything, no point getting vehicule, can dodge easily KB capacities. AND it doesn't even need an upgrade to work. Just cancelled that stupid effect guys.

And also FC terminator should not be able to retreat like normals terms. You have to be a tard to loose it. 2500 HP / TP / instant power bash that almost cannot be prevent x)

Upgrading SMT / ASM to Vanguard squad should requiered a full models squad to be available. Because otherwise its basicely a free upgrade. To balance this out, they could keep their XP.

Agree with senti point.

Elder : WSE in 1vs1 is just on top of the meta right now, just see the stat. You can pop out a fucking shuriken in no time. Upgrade the cost of this units seriously. Cannot target the shuri with the capacity and its one of the less expensive suppression squad of the game.
The build order 1 shees -> full power -> shuri -> dire avenger (eventualy) -> sniper -> T2 -> Falcon is broken guys.

Chaos :
CL BT spam with worship is in my opinion broken.
Doombolt too strong too

Nids :
The tunnels are turning off auto repleshnisment thats boring as hell. Idk if you guys can do something about this.
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby PianoMan » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 1:40 pm

Alotar wrote:I agree with some of the point above.

But guys seriously the librian is just so fucking op in 1v1. It can deals with most heroes in 1v1, has an ok cost and what is REALLY op: that its canceled the setup time of weapon team. It just turned an ok unit to something that can kill everything, no point getting vehicule, can dodge easily KB capacities. AND it doesn't even need an upgrade to work. Just cancelled that stupid effect guys.

And also FC terminator should not be able to retreat like normals terms. You have to be a tard to loose it. 2500 HP / TP / instant power bash that almost cannot be prevent x)

Agree with senti point.

Elder : WSE in 1vs1 is just on top of the meta right now, just see the stat. You can pop out a fucking shuriken in no time. Upgrade the cost of this units seriously. Cannot target the shuri with the capacity and its one of the less expensive suppression squad of the game.
The build order 1 shees -> full power -> shuri -> dire avenger (eventualy) -> sniper -> T2 -> Falcon is broken guys.

librarian is absolutely trash, everytime you see a librarian you know you can just push the sm and end him right there, worthless unit that only works if you already have terminators out, the synergy with devastators isn't worth the power sink on SM, try figuring out ricemuncher's 1 build before you complain about it.

fc terminator is again a power sink and removes the best parts about fc, no point buying it in most games, taking out retreat would completely delete it

wse cannot fight early on and you're complaining about a fast-tech build for him, stop being so passive and just end him in t1 like the worthless hero he is, only good against IG
Alotar
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Alotar » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 4:44 pm

fc terminator is again a power sink and removes the best parts about fc, no point buying it in most games, taking out retreat would completely delete it -> Even with the cost it has, its stupid to have units that cannot be killed, no fun playing against that.

wse cannot fight early on and you're complaining about a fast-tech build for him, stop being so passive and just end him in t1 like the worthless hero he is, only good against IG -> The shuri is out before you can effectively bash power, or you can at best destroy two generators. I was not complaining about WSE in perticulaly but elder builds in general. The synergy existing between first redbare power of WSE and shuri had to be made. You can hold most armies with shees/Dires/heroes just wining time until shuri get out.

"Librarian is absolutely trash, everytime you see a librarian you know you can just push the sm and end him right there, worthless unit that only works if you already have terminators out, the synergy with devastators isn't worth the power sink on SM, try figuring out ricemuncher's 1 build before you complain about it. " The synergy with devastator isn't worth it ? You can catch any fucking vehicule with it, t1 devast can do a lot anyway by itself. Investing a librarian is not a lot for all it provides in my opinion (decent melee/health, capacities). Just having not setup time is a complete non-sense and its broking the spirit of setup team in my opinion.
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby PianoMan » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 5:16 pm

SM cannot play around devs t1, they have anti melee units that simply aren't cost effective and need far too much power in t2 and you're complaining about a unit that's countered by having decent positioning and not ramming your vehicles into lascannons
fc takes 5 hours to heal up with fc terminator armor and is slow as shit, who cares about him being hard to kill, also maybe end the game instead of letting fc get to t3
you can't hold back most armies with that unless the armies are controlled by a moron
Bestn00b
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Bestn00b » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 5:32 pm

RiceMuncher is a prime example why you should never rush libby. He losses a ton.
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boss
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby boss » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 7:46 pm

Shroom wrote:uh
fire dragon fleet of foot: how about no, a big no


If we are going to rework fire dragons there need a way to get into range for the melta bomb and fusion guns, the only other unit that is similar to them is melta storms and they Infiltration so what would fire dragon get then?
Fleet of foot makes sense game wise cos it reduces damage for range fire by 80% cos it should also affect the melta bomb right atlas?
least I know other buffs the damage of melta bombs so It should work the other way around, so you would have to use it properly


Alotar
Idk how you came with Librarian overpowed veil of time is the only good thing he got going for him, not only are you playing sm the race that demands the most power just to stand up to other races but also just to get av that demands more power, Librarian is 350 60 devs are 250,30 75 rec for a lascannon so what in total 575 rec and 90 power and your crying about this ......... I hope librarian does something well .

As for fc terminator if he don't already have a telehammer or telefist then he deserves a good t3 wargear as the other 2 are better and come out much early.

WSE how about stop chasing him around the map and just go bash his power dats how you should always be playing vs this hero.
Tunnels have been looked at before and these no way to stop undoing the auto reinforce same goes with webways gates.
Forums great more shit to talk about.
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Broodwich
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Broodwich » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 8:43 pm

Outside of maybe an SM mirror, i've never felt a libby gives you as much as a RB. The libby is basically just a single model target that already gets fucked by the same damage types as the rest of your roster does. Getting a vehicle at least forces an AV purchase by the other side

He also doesn't have the ridiculous ranged support that a weirdboy does for example. Sending your low HP high cost unit into melee to get the most out of him is asking to get pooped on. Especially since every melee squad on the field is going to have higher MS from leveling.

A power cost reduction and/or MS increase would be necessary before i would consider getting this guy
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lomors
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby lomors » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 9:11 pm

My idea on Fire Dragons:

Push them to t3. Buff their health and maybe other things (add melta?) but mostly health.

Why?

1# - they don't compare well against other units in T2 in terms of AV. It's a very rare thing for me to buy FD instead of a bright lance. They serve no purpose atm as a t2 unit. They won't be an interesting unit if you put them in t1 either.

#2 - what would be their purpose in t3 then? Well let me tell you. Other races such as SM or IG can safely spam tanks. Predators, leman russes hold quite nicely in t3. As it comes to fire prisms as much as I think they're okay right now, if you try buy 2-3 of them they can go bye-bye in one engagement against one well positioned leman russ.

I'd like Fire Dragons to serve as a tanky frontline infantry and a safe answer to late t3 tank spam of other races. They'd also serve as a good recovery unit if you lost all your t1/2 AV units. To do that increase their req/power cost but also increase their HP and tank-hunting capabilites.
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lomors
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby lomors » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 9:33 pm

Other Eldar changes:

Love you boss for them <3 But let's get through them:

1) Heart of Darkness hp heal - yes please

2) Dire Avengers getting a soft detection - I never got why it got removed really.

3) Rangers - I think cost increase was a good idea. It's harder to spam them while it didn't change much else.

4) Fire Dragons - already said

5) I can't say much about warp spiders. In 1v1 I feel like they're still doing okay but it's a truth that they can hurt in terms of economics.

6) Seer Council detection - I really don't know if it's needed? I'm not against it that said.

7) D-cannon GIVE US BACK OLD FIRING PATTERN. It's supposed to be a long distance artillery unit and just check how it compares against T2 plasma cannon or sonic blaster. Like Jesus Christ I could rant all day how much I want it changed...

Now I got also one crazy idea I discussed with Atlas one year ago and as much as it might sound crazy I'd like to discuss it here:

Swap Warp Spider Exarch as a commander with Autarch :3

Now hear me out. I believe there are actually many reasons to do it.

1) WSE is mostly 1v1 hero. And it's a very good hero but I think it focuses on one of the least interesting parts of DoW2 - capping that is. WSE except for voice lines and cool sync-kill doesn't bring much in terms of models etc. It's just there. It caps. It annoys players. Even for me, when I choose him in 1v1 it's like "Jesus Christ I have to win this one so I'd better cap the shit out of this map".

Now. Autarch could take over WSE role quite easily but with small changes that would make her more interesting. I have a draft of her abilites based on current WSE with small changes that would I think still give her a role of mobile-disruption commander but without whole "capping the map to win" thing. If anyone thinks this idea is doable I can share it here.
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Re: My thoughts about next patch changes

Postby Bestn00b » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 9:42 pm

WSE sucks dick

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