Dire Avengers Crazy?

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
Hutsy
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Dire Avengers Crazy?

Postby Hutsy » Sat 20 Apr, 2019 3:37 pm

Is it me or have they gone nuts with how they shred through things now?

I know they're made of paper so they are weak in that regard, but even when in heavy cover, you get ripped apart. I'm talking IST and SS, or any other GK model.

It's the fact I'm in heavy cover that mystifies me. I dread to think what it would be like out of cover.
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Torpid
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Re: Dire Avengers Crazy?

Postby Torpid » Sat 20 Apr, 2019 3:50 pm

Their dps has not been changed in ages. It has always been high, albeit not very bursty. The 5 DA models do roughly the same damage as a tac squad.
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Re: Dire Avengers Crazy?

Postby Hutsy » Sat 20 Apr, 2019 4:05 pm

Had a feeling they hadn't been changed for a while but something seems a bit nuts at the moment that's for sure!

It's the behind cover bit that confuses me. It's like it's not there. Also if it was just IST, I could understand but SS get wrecked too.
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Re: Dire Avengers Crazy?

Postby Atlas » Sat 20 Apr, 2019 11:30 pm

They've been op for ages, but there's no way they'll ever be nerfed. :P
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Nurland
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Re: Dire Avengers Crazy?

Postby Nurland » Sun 21 Apr, 2019 9:54 am

DA damage has been the same for about 9 years
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Asmon
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Re: Dire Avengers Crazy?

Postby Asmon » Sun 21 Apr, 2019 6:22 pm

Even caeltos tried to tweak it a bit when he started elite and changed their name, but it's still the same :>
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Re: Dire Avengers Crazy?

Postby SOLID SQUIG » Sun 21 Apr, 2019 9:03 pm

Nurland wrote:DA damage has been the same for about 9 years


Bout time the nerf came then

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Re: Dire Avengers Crazy?

Postby Broodwich » Sun 21 Apr, 2019 9:15 pm

Atlas wrote:They've been op for ages, but there's no way they'll ever be nerfed. :P

    Energy Shield health decreased from 1000 to 500
    Energy Shield regeneration decreased from 5 to 2.5
    Plasma Grenade damage to retreating units modifier decreased from 5 to 4.5

Exarch -
    Exarch hp reduced from 275 to 250.
    Population cost increased from 2 to 3.
    Upkeep increased from 4.1538 to 7.65.
    Ranged damage reduction aura reduced from 25% to 20%.
    Leap knockback type changed from light_weapon to weapon.
    Domino knockback strength on leap decreased from 50 to 0.
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Atlas
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Re: Dire Avengers Crazy?

Postby Atlas » Sun 21 Apr, 2019 10:17 pm

Broodwich wrote:[list of nerfs]

Wow, and they were even worse in retail from the looks of it!
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Sex - Murder - Art
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Re: Dire Avengers Crazy?

Postby Sex - Murder - Art » Sun 21 Apr, 2019 11:10 pm

I would take Elite mod Dire Avengers any day compared to retail. At least they don't cost 300 req to buy, and 30 req to reinforce a single model. Same goes for Banshees. The real buff that Elite gave to Eldar is the economy.
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Torpid
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Re: Dire Avengers Crazy?

Postby Torpid » Mon 22 Apr, 2019 1:03 am

Sex - Murder - Art wrote:I would take Elite mod Dire Avengers any day compared to retail. At least they don't cost 300 req to buy, and 30 req to reinforce a single model. Same goes for Banshees. The real buff that Elite gave to Eldar is the economy.


But rangers don't 1 shot scouts anymore. The autarch drop doesn't instantly wipe any SUT even if it retreats. Webway gates are no longer 50 red each. You can't get hard AV for 0 power via a T2 brightlance weapon team. Warp spiders do reduced damage in retreat. The warlock hero himself got 6million nerfs, as did the WSE.

There has been a power creep from retail to elite mod for sure, but I'm not sure eldar are better off in elite overall than they are in retail. The key units in compositions have just been switched around.
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Re: Dire Avengers Crazy?

Postby Nurland » Mon 22 Apr, 2019 10:31 am

Aren't gates 100 red in retail?
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Sex - Murder - Art
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Re: Dire Avengers Crazy?

Postby Sex - Murder - Art » Mon 22 Apr, 2019 10:38 am

Torpid wrote:But rangers don't 1 shot scouts anymore. The autarch drop doesn't instantly wipe any SUT even if it retreats. Webway gates are no longer 50 red each. You can't get hard AV for 0 power via a T2 brightlance weapon team. Warp spiders do reduced damage in retreat. The warlock hero himself got 6million nerfs, as did the WSE.

There has been a power creep from retail to elite mod for sure, but I'm not sure eldar are better off in elite overall than they are in retail. The key units in compositions have just been switched around.


Most of things you listed were what made Eldar broken / O.P. back then. They had to me changed, one way or the other. And don't forget the Warlock buffs like Distructor or leap into combat, or the cost decrease on Providence which used to cost 200 / 100, holy shit that thing used to cost a lot!

In the end, Eldar is just better in Elite mod. Less annoying to play, and play against.
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Nurland
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Re: Dire Avengers Crazy?

Postby Nurland » Mon 22 Apr, 2019 6:16 pm

Warlock buffs? Destructor has been nerfed heavily for most scenarios.

The leap is a change. Hard to say if it is a buff or a nerf as it makes him worse for chasing stuff.

Providence was also nerfed to compensate for the price decrease iirc.

If we talk about buffed stuff for Warlock there are Kurnous and Cloak of Shadows. Those are the only pieces of wargear that have been buffed iirc.
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Torpid
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Re: Dire Avengers Crazy?

Postby Torpid » Mon 22 Apr, 2019 7:14 pm

MWB got a huge buff thanks to it no longer doing friendly fire on the specials haha, though that was a bug, but yeah, it existed for so long it was considered part of its balance in retail.

Other than that though warlock got hit the hardest for sure. His gate healing got a nerf, no longer stacking with the base. Leap is a berf - he lost melee charge which made him worse with any of his weapon upgrades, but better in early engagements I suppose? Destructor is weaker quite considerably. The fact you can't cancel it anymore is the biggest deal. Swift movement doesn't stack with fleetness anymore, and it might cost more red (can't remember exactly). Heart of darkness was changed and i think we can all agree its new form is weaker than its old. Distort field no longer makes units heal when shot at in retreat as well.
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Re: Dire Avengers Crazy?

Postby Nurland » Mon 22 Apr, 2019 9:30 pm

Didn't MWB special damage get a nerf as well or was it already in retail? I mean the ff change was a huge buff though.
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Torpid
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Re: Dire Avengers Crazy?

Postby Torpid » Tue 23 Apr, 2019 12:28 am

There was talk of changing its damage type to normal melee since it was power melee for most of its life. I don't actually know if that ever happened or not. Don't think it got a simple damage reduction though.
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Asmon
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Re: Dire Avengers Crazy?

Postby Asmon » Fri 03 May, 2019 12:27 am

Yes mwb special has had its damage reduced.
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Re: Dire Avengers Crazy?

Postby Torpid » Fri 03 May, 2019 10:44 am

Asmon wrote:Yes mwb special has had its damage reduced.


When...?
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Asmon
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Re: Dire Avengers Crazy?

Postby Asmon » Fri 03 May, 2019 11:16 pm

Can't remember when exactly, but special damage used to be 60. Maybe before retribution.

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