Ravener Alpha (Ravener Call in)

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
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Element
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Ravener Alpha (Ravener Call in)

Postby Element » Sun 17 Mar, 2019 4:21 pm

Hey there everyone, my question is simple. Can we have something else other than this unit being called in? While I can see some players using this ability to stack the field/ replace a wiped unit. I've found it almost has no usage when I play this particular character given, you often buy a ravener squad in T1 and while 2 is a viable strategy if one can make it work, 1 has been working out just fine for me when I do take them, amd when I don't take them, it's simply for that reason as well, "I don't need them." Can we have this changed out to where you can call in genestealers?/Zoanthrope- maybe problematic/Put up multiple tunnels around the map even if it were moved back to T2 to this--> though Inunderstand why not doing this would be supported given the mobility balance proble.s which could arise from mass tunnel network call ins- of like 3 Tunnels around the map within respecti w distance of the ravener alpha. But certainly right now, this global seems to be just taking up a slot, at least for me.
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Oddnerd
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Re: Ravener Alpha (Ravener Call in)

Postby Oddnerd » Mon 18 Mar, 2019 2:37 pm

I've been playing a lot of nids recently and I never use it. The time to get ravs is T1; by T2 they are not useless but they certainly don't scale amazingly. I would happily take the veno drop that lictor has, maybe even standard warriors. Don't know about zoans or Gene's - they don't seem like good drop/call in units.
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Schepp himself
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Re: Ravener Alpha (Ravener Call in)

Postby Schepp himself » Mon 18 Mar, 2019 6:53 pm

Lore-Wise, Genestealers or a Lictor would make the most sense. Them both being vanguard units.

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P.S.: Another idea would be a global slow/stun/snare effect, maybe area of effect. Ravenors, especially the infamous Red Terror, are known for messing with their enemies heads and making them very weary of their surroundings which could be represented by an ability which decreases the mobility of the enemy.
Greets schep himself thingy
Atlas

Re: Ravener Alpha (Ravener Call in)

Postby Atlas » Mon 18 Mar, 2019 7:16 pm

Ok, I'm listening to this thread. Feed me your best ideas. Convince me because I can understand where this is coming from.
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boss
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Re: Ravener Alpha (Ravener Call in)

Postby boss » Mon 18 Mar, 2019 10:44 pm

Ravener Alpha got a ravener call in cos I guess cos of his range build come t2 being able to get more ravs as a call in along with venom brood for ranged synapse then damage synapse = build complete I think out of all the call ins this one make the most sense and should be left alone for now.
Forums great more stuff to talk about.
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DanielGrushin
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Re: Ravener Alpha (Ravener Call in)

Postby DanielGrushin » Tue 19 Mar, 2019 12:19 am

Just make it T1 similar to SM pod.
Are we the flame or just guardsman drawn to tsm?
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Re: Ravener Alpha (Ravener Call in)

Postby Shroom » Tue 19 Mar, 2019 2:51 am

DanielGrushin wrote:Just make it T1 similar to SM pod.

sm drop pod is cancer already, keep rav drop in t2
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Element
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Re: Ravener Alpha (Ravener Call in)

Postby Element » Tue 19 Mar, 2019 4:21 am

Ravener Alpha got a ravener call in cos I guess cos of his range build come t2 being able to get more ravs as a call in along with venom brood for ranged synapse then damage synapse = build complete I think out of all the call ins this one make the most sense and should be left alone for now.


I agree with your assessment in regards to buying them form a "complete" T2 ranged force, that being said, I.m.o. it's actually not as goo you think for technical reasons. When you buy the second ravener squad you sacrifice a slot for genestealers if not a zoanthrope, and usually you will buy one of those if not a tyrant guard. not matter the case you will be missing something from a constituent build perspective. Often you need an artillery unit, if not some kind of line breaking melee unit,unlike the other 2 commanders which are more so characterized in a sense to be able to take up a greater siege line breaking capability in coming T2-T3 engagements where in which raveners will not be able to handle them, and while the ranged High Burst Pierce Spike Dps is nice in T1, come T2, if I'm being honest they can begin to take some seriouss loses in battles of rabnged attritom especially when coming up against Eldar, Chaos, S.M. with an assault cannon Dread etc.

My natural sense tells me to come up with another replacement for this particualr call- in because they simply aren't sturdy enough/do enough damage in melee to cause a norther unit to have to run off, and there is a very real risk concerned with having them wiping as they become focus fired with great ease, and will lose out many more melee engagements, given they just aren't as well sutited to engage the type of units one would look to engage in T2> regarding any manner of melee.
"The meaning of life is to have purpose, and the purpose of life is what you choose to make of it, in addition to what you come to understand along the way."

"Because I choose to."

"The humble person knows not everything, nor nothing at all, but certainly something worth knowing."
Atlas

Re: Ravener Alpha (Ravener Call in)

Postby Atlas » Wed 20 Mar, 2019 4:26 am

Sooooo.... replace with a new call in? Go to T1? Replace with some kind of other non-call-in global?
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Telos
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Re: Ravener Alpha (Ravener Call in)

Postby Telos » Thu 21 Mar, 2019 7:46 am

Well, personally I like the ravener call in. It's a situational ability like all the nid call-ins. Raveners are a really good unit, it's just that you're not often thinking about them come T2. It also makes thematic sense for the RA to call in ravs.

I'd much rather have raveners called in than genestealers, genestealers are waaay more niche than raveners and don't scale nearly as well to late game. If you're gonna replace it with something then just give RA a call-in for Warriors. Then all call-ins are basically for units you want in 90% of match-ups (HT -> Tyrant Guard, LA -> Venom Brood, RA -> Warrior Brood).

Outside of capillary towers, spawning pool, and Tyrannoformation, nid globals are really situational. You won't always use stalk, catalyst, or call-ins. They're not bad abilities, they just have very particular MU's and situations where they're called for, and are a lot more situational than globals of other races.

And as far as unique nid globals go, Ravener call-in is one of the better ones imo.
Last edited by Telos on Thu 21 Mar, 2019 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ravener Alpha (Ravener Call in)

Postby oLev » Thu 21 Mar, 2019 10:55 am

Genestealers dropping in on a single ork rok to simulate orbital debris.
T3 lictor dropping with five base defense spore mines.
Tyrannoformation where you can aim the other towers and they emerge with mega rumblah effects.
But, being realistic, raveners are fine, just add power and decrease req cost.
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Element
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Re: Ravener Alpha (Ravener Call in)

Postby Element » Sun 31 Mar, 2019 12:04 am

Could we possibly consider moving a Lictor call in for T2? except you remove the ability of the Lictor to do heavy damage towards vehicles, and make it an upgrade which comes to be available in T3?/perhaps make him have to purchase flesh hooks upgrade in T2 after call in? so as that it doesn't immediately come into the game at full strength? This way you can start to use a subcommander which is often not to seen in Tyranid match-ups which I find to be a problem already, and introduce the unit earlier where it may actually come to have the most impact/tier into the further reaching stages of the game/If it becomes noted that this is actually really good for Tyranids in general--> replace the other 2 heroes call ins with the the same ability just like Eldar have the Autarch Call- In?
"The meaning of life is to have purpose, and the purpose of life is what you choose to make of it, in addition to what you come to understand along the way."

"Because I choose to."

"The humble person knows not everything, nor nothing at all, but certainly something worth knowing."
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Telos
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Re: Ravener Alpha (Ravener Call in)

Postby Telos » Sun 31 Mar, 2019 11:02 am

If you want a T2 nid hero, probably better to try to fit Neuro into this role and make some of its abilities upgrades instead of moving the T3Lictor.

Moving a T3 elite unit to T2 would require a lot of balance work to make it both an attractive option and not horribly OP. Not to mention the kinds of shenanigans the LA could pull off with a T2 Lictor option...
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Re: Ravener Alpha (Ravener Call in)

Postby Crewfinity » Wed 03 Apr, 2019 8:42 am

SPORE MINE ALPHA CALL-IN PLZ
Atlas

Re: Ravener Alpha (Ravener Call in)

Postby Atlas » Wed 03 Apr, 2019 10:55 pm

Telos wrote:If you want a T2 nid hero, probably better to try to fit Neuro into this role and make some of its abilities upgrades instead of moving the T3Lictor.

Moving a T3 elite unit to T2 would require a lot of balance work to make it both an attractive option and not horribly OP. Not to mention the kinds of shenanigans the LA could pull off with a T2 Lictor option...


No he means just the global. I thinkkkk the KNob's Kommando call in used to be available in t2 as well for an example? Perfectly doable.
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Sex - Murder - Art
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Re: Ravener Alpha (Ravener Call in)

Postby Sex - Murder - Art » Wed 03 Apr, 2019 11:14 pm

Tbh, Ravener global is okay by it self if you don't consider that it's a T2 thing. Its just not worth to waste 175 red. I know that is instant, and it does reinforce and stuff. But lets be fair, no one used Warrior global when it was in HT back before it was replaced by Tyrant Guard global. My suggestion would be:

- Make it T1 (Not worth in T2)
- Remove reinforcement (Did not pay off when Warrior drop in HT before)
- Maybe make it spawn in base (?)
- Decrease 175 red cost to 125 or something
- 400 req cost should also be decreased to 300 or something with these nerfs

Oooooooooooooooooooorrrrr, here is something cool

- Call in an Elite Ravener Brood, with buffs and stuff

Yeah, lets work on that. :D
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