Ask for feedback on Purifiers.

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
paladinsquad
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Ask for feedback on Purifiers.

Postby paladinsquad » Sun 24 Feb, 2019 3:16 pm

The 2.9 patch has significantly changed the Purifiers.

I feel that the melee damage of the Purifiers has decreased considerably.

In my opinion seems to be no reason any more to produce. What's your opinion?

I am not fluent in English, so there may be some awkward parts.
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Sex - Murder - Art
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Re: Ask for feedback on Purifiers.

Postby Sex - Murder - Art » Sun 24 Feb, 2019 5:54 pm

3 power swords doing 50 dps power melee (ASM sergant does 40 dps) and a heavy melee sergant
Those power swords are also doing AV damage, saves you from any trouble against an early vehicle like Bloodchrusher
They have the longest charge range in the game
Super tanky for a armored melee marine squad, compared to what SM and Chaos has

Sounds a pretty great melee squad for their super cheap cost tbh.

Their previous ability was pure bullshit btw, lets be honest about that. However, their new ability will cause more trouble in melee brawling. Because, that ability basicially shuts down all the aces of other melee squads

SM - No Battle Cry, Merciless Strike & NO TELEPORT FOR TERMINATORS
Orks - No Frenzy or no whatever ability they have, they have a ton of them
Chaos - No anti-melee abilities from 3 heroes, no Bloodletter escapes & NO TELEPORT FOR TERMINATORS
Eldar - No Etherial Slash, no Farseer stuff, no Warshout
Tyranids - No adrinal rush for genestealers, which is like the only thing that makes them dangerous in melee combat since they are literally glasscannons
IG and enemy GK anti melee abilities etc whatever

I mean, these guys are now holding the upper hand in melee combat. Why would I even bother getting Terminators at this point? I will just get 2 of these and roll out, who needs Paladins or GK Termies?
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Torpid
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Re: Ask for feedback on Purifiers.

Postby Torpid » Sun 24 Feb, 2019 6:08 pm

Sex - Murder - Art wrote:3 power swords doing 50 dps power melee (ASM sergant does 40 dps) and a heavy melee sergant
Those power swords are also doing AV damage, saves you from any trouble against an early vehicle like Bloodchrusher
They have the longest charge range in the game
Super tanky for a armored melee marine squad, compared to what SM and Chaos has

Sounds a pretty great melee squad for their super cheap cost tbh.

Their previous ability was pure bullshit btw, lets be honest about that. However, their new ability will cause more trouble in melee brawling. Because, that ability basicially shuts down all the aces of other melee squads

SM - No Battle Cry, Merciless Strike & NO TELEPORT FOR TERMINATORS
Orks - No Frenzy or no whatever ability they have, they have a ton of them
Chaos - No anti-melee abilities from 3 heroes, no Bloodletter escapes & NO TELEPORT FOR TERMINATORS
Eldar - No Etherial Slash, no Farseer stuff, no Warshout
Tyranids - No adrinal rush for genestealers, which is like the only thing that makes them dangerous in melee combat since they are literally glasscannons
IG and enemy GK anti melee abilities etc whatever

I mean, these guys are now holding the upper hand in melee combat. Why would I even bother getting Terminators at this point? I will just get 2 of these and roll out, who needs Paladins or GK Termies?


I think you are vastly over-stating the value of the new ability given its current radius. If it just shut down all abilities for the whole engagement then yeah, it would do all that. But it's not going to do most of them now since it only shuts down in a very small radius (I've forgot what now >_>) and as soon as you leave that radius abilities come back after 4 seconds.

For the above reason it will never stop battle-cry on the FC as he's constantly moving/teleporting about you won't catch him with that slow ability, and he'll use it before he gets into melee combat anyway. And terminators just get a delayed teleport for 4seconds. Again things like the farseer that can cast support spells without being literally in melee range and needing to stick in there, you won't stop with this. Though it will be great vs ASM/bloodletters/warlock w/ kurnous.

I still think it could do with a bit of a radius increase to see more functionality. The utility on it at the moment is a bit small due to that radius, as you say, only really being useful in melee brawling range.

Genestealers by the way are a lot stronger without their ability now since they passively heal on hit. They were too reliant on the ability before...

On purifiers themselves I've not really had a chance to use them yet in close, serious games. They should still perform the role of T2 melee superiority and soft-AV, but should be countered by melee walkers and suppression teams. If that's what is happening, and they are cost effective enough to implement into builds then they are good.

P.S ASM sarge sucks. He does 31dps not 40. He does 40damage per hit. :L And then people wonder why the raptor AC was OP when he did 45dps heavy melee in big bursts AND had a melta pistol, lel.
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boss
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Re: Ask for feedback on Purifiers.

Postby boss » Sun 24 Feb, 2019 6:42 pm

paladinsquad wrote:The 2.9 patch has significantly changed the Purifiers.

I feel that the melee damage of the Purifiers has decreased considerably.

In my opinion seems to be no reason any more to produce. What's your opinion?

I am not fluent in English, so there may be some awkward parts.




Well I don't think there damage was nerf but 3 of there weapon got change to swords from thunder hammer, diffence now is sword attacks much faster but less damage per hit, while hammer attacks much slower but deals all the damage in 1 hit and the whole unit had hammers so that's just burst damage compare to constant damage. There a reason why I called them t2 nobz :twisted:


I don't know why psychic field got removed all it needed was to be like before a delay too cast think it was 4 or 5 secs and cost more energy and think it damage got buff idk about that, again like it used to be but instead got removed and given a new skill to stop oppents abilitys sounds cool but probably won't help out much in combat.



Torpid


Also asm sarge does not suck and stop trying to compare asm to raptors both of these units have diffent roles asm for more tanker and disrupt while raptors more for damage.
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Antandron
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Re: Ask for feedback on Purifiers.

Postby Antandron » Sun 24 Feb, 2019 6:47 pm

What is the difference between ASM and Raptors? One jumps, does KB and then does damage to infantry. The other jumps, suppresses and then does damage to infantry. What am I missing?
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Re: Ask for feedback on Purifiers.

Postby Torpid » Sun 24 Feb, 2019 7:00 pm

Antandron wrote:What is the difference between ASM and Raptors? One jumps, does KB and then does damage to infantry. The other jumps, suppresses and then does damage to infantry. What am I missing?


You're missing the fact that the raptor does damage to everything, not just infantry ;)
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Sex - Murder - Art
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Re: Ask for feedback on Purifiers.

Postby Sex - Murder - Art » Sun 24 Feb, 2019 7:35 pm

Sorry about ASM Sarge dps, my bad. However, he doesn't suck like you say. Maybe overshadowed by Raptor AC for now, but still a decent sarge, perfectly balanced.

Btw, that ability lasts 9 seconds. Thats enough to wreck a melee squad with no ace in their hands. I also would not use teleport against GK when Purifiers are out since you know, I better save that hammer for them. :)

Antandron wrote:What is the difference between ASM and Raptors? One jumps, does KB and then does damage to infantry. The other jumps, suppresses and then does damage to infantry. What am I missing?


ASM doesn't do damage on landing. However, their knockback gives a perfect chance to have 1 or 2 free swings on enemy, which might be difference between life and death in this game.

Comparing to Raptors, ASM are more durable and has more support. They are not as killy as Raptors, but enough to force off ranged squads, which makes them good at their duty. They have more survivability, they can jump once more to attack or to save their lives. But, they can help to kill big tanks with their melta bomb, which leads to a rolling down snowball after that. ASM are good, maybe even better than Raptors if you consider what you can create with rest of SM army.

Raptors in the other hand, are able to shutdown an entire army with their suppression since it still goes on a little bit more after landing. They have more damage, so they can kill stuff before they get a chance to escape. They have less health and worse energy use, but very deadly when they land on. Its a double edged sword, like all Chaos units. Their sarge is better at killing things, as it should be. Not only talking about heavy melee, very useful at sniping down heroes or other sarges
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boss
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Re: Ask for feedback on Purifiers.

Postby boss » Mon 25 Feb, 2019 4:11 pm

Not just the reason art says but space marine army is designed to support each other to get the most out of there units not being the most powerfully units by themselves.
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paladinsquad
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Re: Ask for feedback on Purifiers.

Postby paladinsquad » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 6:22 am

Even with that in mind, I think that the current melee ability of the Purifier is not good. It is noteworthy that the ability to chase and kill retreating enemies has weakened. Thank you for your feedback.
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Re: Ask for feedback on Purifiers.

Postby Lunatic » Sat 02 Mar, 2019 4:57 pm

What was the intended role for the Purifier squad? Do they need to be their own deployable unit?

I only ask because at the moment OM seems like it's been tagged with a bit too many melee squads (such as T1 Strike Squad, T2 Purifiers, T3 Interceptor/GK Termi/GK Paladin). I scratch my head when I think about why Purifiers aren't an upgrade for the T1 Strike Squad, much like how Space Marines have Vanguard/Sternguard Veterans as upgrades for TAC and ASM.
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Re: Ask for feedback on Purifiers.

Postby Atlas » Sat 02 Mar, 2019 5:56 pm

paladinsquad wrote:Even with that in mind, I think that the current melee ability of the Purifier is not good. It is noteworthy that the ability to chase and kill retreating enemies has weakened. Thank you for your feedback.


Why do you feel it was weakened? The reason for the weapon switch back to swords had more to do with the special attacks than their dps. The dph change should match them to the damage they had under the different hammer melee attack pattern. Swords swing a bit faster iirc?

Lunatic wrote:What was the intended role for the Purifier squad? Do they need to be their own deployable unit?

I only ask because at the moment OM seems like it's been tagged with a bit too many melee squads (such as T1 Strike Squad, T2 Purifiers, T3 Interceptor/GK Termi/GK Paladin). I scratch my head when I think about why Purifiers aren't an upgrade for the T1 Strike Squad, much like how Space Marines have Vanguard/Sternguard Veterans as upgrades for TAC and ASM.


Purifiers have been melee superiority for pretty much their entire career, but they adapted a bit more AV with the passive modifier. With 2.9.1 changes, maybe we can re-look into that aspect but yeah, they're meant to hit thing with sticks really hard.
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Re: Ask for feedback on Purifiers.

Postby Nurland » Sun 03 Mar, 2019 6:25 am

Higher attack speed is usually worse than slower attack speed for retreat chasing. Maybe that is why the retreat killing at least feels worse for some players.
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Re: Ask for feedback on Purifiers.

Postby Torpid » Sun 03 Mar, 2019 11:22 am

The lack of the burst damage is most definitely a big nerf to their retreat killing potential but the hammers was not for that reason anyway, it was more for a 360 special that looked decent.

That was deemed too good, so back to swords. But by nature of having swords (which incidentally have better specials now than they did before the hammer got given to them) means they proc more specials. Faster attacks = more specials per minute. And specials per minute helps them in their role - not retreat killing, but melee superiority, akin to bloodletters but with some AV potential and far more resilience to piercing dps.
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