Removing maps in 2.9

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
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Swift
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Removing maps in 2.9

Postby Swift » Sat 15 Dec, 2018 11:33 am

It's long overdue that we remove lots of shitty maps from this mod. If we're really trying to brand it as a balance focused then a lot of maps in the mod are just awful, so I have created three polls.

Atlas gave me a list of proposed maps to be removed from several patches ago, which I have posted here and amended slightly to removed the 2v2 maps Golgotha Depths and Ashes of Typhon as they are actually solid, and have added my 3v3 map Archaea Vista, because of how woefully balanced it is. I would also added Nocturne Inferno to the list but its not my map so I'll let other people decide on that one.

Voting polls:

1v1: https://www.strawpoll.me/17048245

2v2: https://www.strawpoll.me/17048248

3v3: https://www.strawpoll.me/17048258

If you have suggestions or thought, please put them down here, I want to get everyone's opinion on this.

Cast your votes above approve these maps being removed:
Bay of Grots (2p)
Calderis River (2p)
Catachan Fortress (2p)
Hive City(2p)
Ice Station Obelis(2p)
Legis High Stratum(2p)
Leviathan Eye(2p) (Not to be confused with Leviathan Hive)
Mirage(2p)
Plaza Primarus(2p)
Small White Walls(2p)
Tallarn Ravine(2p)
Wrazgrot’s Leadfoot(2p)
Merdian High City(4p)
Nids Never Sleep(4p)
Selenon Fissure(4p)
Valhalla(4p)
Argent Shelf (6p)
Armageddon River Crossing(6p)
Capital Spire(6p)
Fall of Hyades(6p)
Garzweiler Mine(6p)
Kasyr Lutien(6p)
Return to Golgotha(6p)
Siccarus Plateau(6p)
Skull Masha Brackens(6p)
Soprony Blood Lairs(6p)
Swamps of Slaughter(6p)
Taros Mining Facility(6p)
Tartarus Harbor(6p)
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Schepp himself
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Re: Removing maps in 2.9

Postby Schepp himself » Sat 15 Dec, 2018 12:46 pm

Good initiative. I casted votes for the 1v1 maps, 2v2 and 3v3 is a more gimmicky game-modes anyway so I don't think it's that bad to let them all stay.

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Re: Removing maps in 2.9

Postby LOCALgHOST » Sat 15 Dec, 2018 1:52 pm

Legis High Stratum is ok (ranked in vanilla btw!)

Ice Station obelis is the only map with unique baseraping ability on T1 with jumptroops :) it's just for fun. don't touch it

all other maps - throw away
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Re: Removing maps in 2.9

Postby Cheekie Monkie » Sat 15 Dec, 2018 3:10 pm

Though not popular, I've always enjoyed Valhalla
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Re: Removing maps in 2.9

Postby Swift » Sat 15 Dec, 2018 3:41 pm

Interesting. I think some of these maps could be reduxed or improved, but time constraints right now might make that improbable.

Cheekie Monkie wrote:Though not popular, I've always enjoyed Valhalla

In a weird way I agree.
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Re: Removing maps in 2.9

Postby Dark Riku » Sat 15 Dec, 2018 5:09 pm

I don't know all of these by name. Is there any way to put the pictures of the minimaps on this post?
Will look them up myself later otherwise when I have more time.
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Re: Removing maps in 2.9

Postby Torpid » Sat 15 Dec, 2018 5:24 pm

Don't touch any of the retail maps, that's a real dumb idea.

It is important we remove the really bad quality novel elite maps because it makes the mod look like a mod rather than an awesome DLC package which is how it should feel if we want to bring retail players to the mod.

And Armageddon should not be removed because it's the best gimmick map =D I also don't actually see why calderis Fortress is played so little. It's a decent map imo.
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Re: Removing maps in 2.9

Postby Oddnerd » Sun 16 Dec, 2018 9:19 pm

Please don't remove the river crossing map - it's a shit show and everyone knows it, but that is what makes it fun sometimes.

EDIT - Also, if we are going to remove a capital spire map, why not the horrendous redux with the terrible power placement top side? One wrong move at the VP and you lose your power.
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Re: Removing maps in 2.9

Postby Swift » Mon 17 Dec, 2018 1:12 pm

So far what I can see are two fairly strong sentiments: Don't remove River Crossing because its unashamedly a meme map, and don't remove any retail maps. I think these are pretty fair, I think including retail maps on the list in the first place was odd anyway but hey whatever.
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Re: Removing maps in 2.9

Postby Cheah18 » Tue 18 Dec, 2018 5:57 pm

Can we rename Garvus Ice gate? It triggers me because 'jungle' and 'desert' in the other maps aren't called that because that word describes the terrain - it's because they are the gates TO the jungle or desert. You don't have a gate to the ice. It should be tundra or alpine gate or something like that?
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Re: Removing maps in 2.9

Postby Swift » Tue 18 Dec, 2018 6:57 pm

Cheah18 wrote:Can we rename Garvus Ice gate? It triggers me because 'jungle' and 'desert' in the other maps aren't called that because that word describes the terrain - it's because they are the gates TO the jungle or desert. You don't have a gate to the ice. It should be tundra or alpine gate or something like that?

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Re: Removing maps in 2.9

Postby Cheah18 » Wed 19 Dec, 2018 3:37 pm

Swift wrote:
Cheah18 wrote:Can we rename Garvus Ice gate? It triggers me because 'jungle' and 'desert' in the other maps aren't called that because that word describes the terrain - it's because they are the gates TO the jungle or desert. You don't have a gate to the ice. It should be tundra or alpine gate or something like that?

Image


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Re: Removing maps in 2.9

Postby oLev » Thu 20 Dec, 2018 10:06 am

I kinda like Taros Mining Facility but occasionally it traps respawning commanders behind their own base turret with no escape and that's a bad way to disrupt a 3v3 game so take it out behind the shed and put it out of its misery.
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Re: Removing maps in 2.9

Postby TheGoldenChicken » Wed 30 Jan, 2019 9:54 am

NOBODY TAKES SKULL MASHA FROM ME

Seriously though, I think Skull Masha Brackens is a fine map because it forces old players to get out of their comfort zone, and play in a way they normally can't. The flanks are too tight for vehicles to traverse, but fine in the middle. Stop bickering a map not being laney enough for you DOTA/League of legends souls and just adapt.
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Re: Removing maps in 2.9

Postby Swift » Wed 30 Jan, 2019 6:56 pm

TheGoldenChicken wrote:NOBODY TAKES SKULL MASHA FROM ME

Seriously though, I think Skull Masha Brackens is a fine map because it forces old players to get out of their comfort zone, and play in a way they normally can't. The flanks are too tight for vehicles to traverse, but fine in the middle. Stop bickering a map not being laney enough for you DOTA/League of legends souls and just adapt.

The issue with Skull Masha is it is ALL lanes. Thats not fun. In a game that emphasises that all strategies should be possible, forcing players to use a smaller toolset is never good. For example, you might not be hindering chaos who like small spaces and shot blockers, but a faction like IG with lots of models and vehicle micro are unfairly punished for simply being designed in a way to take advantage of space.

Skull masha isn't a map that effectively challeneges expectations, its one that pushes people into falling back on one or two options every time. it is a woefully bad map and long overdue removal.

Also, lanes aren't a thing we all like either. Personally I design my maps without lanes where possible because its much more interesting without. However its proven that lanes make maps popular so whether you love them or hate them, they'll always be a thing.
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Re: Removing maps in 2.9

Postby SaintKelly » Wed 06 Feb, 2019 4:53 pm

I find Return to Golgotha is actually a pretty fun map, kind of a shame I never see it being played.

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