2.9 Balance List as of 10/28/18
Posted: Sun 28 Oct, 2018 10:39 pm
o/
Hey guys! For those of you who have been watching the patch making streams, which you can find at https://www.twitch.tv/atlastheinquiring , you're not seeing anything new here. The sheet is almost entirely copy/paste from the stream.
For those who haven't, however, there have been a couple revisions from the 2.9 Beta sheet you had seen earlier. There might still be a few revisions to this, but I'm just letting people know in case they haven't seen the streams here.
Bugs
Just get them fixed.
Purifier Justicar hp regen has been corrected whilst the squad is at level 2.
Maps
Unimportant right now for balance talk.
Gameplay
Black Relic will be handling this part. We’ll try to make transports load and unload a bit more reliably, and we’ll make jump squads jump as a unit more reliably. However, give up anything on vehicle pathing.
Auras/Abilities
The following abilities have been changed to affect only your own army or be affected by your own army.
Cloaking Shroud
Sacred Standard
Defend
Advanced Healing
Boss Pole
Stubbornness (LC only stacks on his own troops, not all troops around him)
Aura of Discipline
None Shall Fall
This list has been trimmed down to what is the real “problem” abilities in team games. It’s tempting to add Spiritual Rites and Breath of Nurgle to this list but this hits what really counts. We could reiterate and add more to the list in a later patch if this batch is successful.
Chaos Space Marines
Chaos Lord:
Blood Maul cost reduced from 150/50 to 140/40.
Daemonic Visage cost reduced from 125/35 to 125/30.
Chaos Sorcerer:
Curse of Tzeentch range increased from 30 to 35.
Range is already 40.
Curse of Tzeentch no longer deals friendly fire.
Curse of Tzeentch damage type changed from piercing to plasma.
Curse of Tzeentch range increased from 30 to 35.
Curse of Tzeentch duration reduced from 25 seconds to 15 seconds.
Curse of Tzeentch increases incoming damage by 20% for 15s. Effect is not cancelled in retreat.
Too many changes here at the same time. Let’s try the doom effect and see how it goes.
Warp energy cost increased from 30 to 35.
Raptor Squad:
Daemonic Fury damage reduced from 150 to 120.
Land Raider Phobos:
Cost increased from 700/160 to 700/180.
Came up in stream.
Eldar
Warlock:
Destructor cast delay increased from .2 to .5.
A counter suggestion to the Destructor damage nerf. Looked like it worked in the live test.
Farseer:
Runes of Reaping cooldown reduction of Guide reduced from 25% to 15%. Other effects remain.
This was brought up during the stream.
Howling Banshees:
Upkeep cost increased from 2.16 to 2.55.
Exarch cost reduced from 90/20 to 80/20.
Rangers:
Cost increased from 210/20 to 220/25.
Pathfinder Gear cost reduced from 75/20 to 75/15.
Pathfinder Gear damage increase changed from +25% damage to +15% damage. (75 to 69)
Wraithguard:
Wraithcannon courage damage increased from 30 to 40.
Spiritseer upkeep increased from 1.5 to 2.55.
Spiritseer Destructor range increased from 38 to 44.
Squad speed increased from 2.5 to 3.
Wraithsight speed increase reduced from 1.5 to 1.
Squad is no longer stunned for X seconds upon the death of a nearby Wraithsight user.
EDIT: This one got revised a lot on stream.
Autarch:
Skyleap energy cost reduced from 80 to 60.
Didn't check to see if this got properly fixed at the end.
Dark Reaper Squad:
Aspect of Reaper no longer passively increases the squad’s speed by .5 or increase the squad’s damage by 10%.
Aspect of Reaper now changes the damage type of Reaper Launchers from inferno_pvp to plasma_pvp.
Aspect of Reaper cost increase from 65/25 to 75/25.
This one needs to be rethought a bit as it’s a big change. The feedback here is very… sporadic... to be frank, and we’re making other big changes.
Fire Dragons:
Squad and Exarch upkeep increased from 2.5 to 2.55.
Warp Spider Squad:
Squad and Exarch upkeep increased from 2.39 to 2.55.
Haywire Grenade cooldown increased from 40 to 48 seconds.
Wraithlord:
Wraithbone health regeneration reduced from 70 hp/s to 35 hp/s.
This should really be added. It’s simply far too fast. We could maybe adjust this to make it heal less over more time but, frankly, this unit is cheaper and more versatile than most of its contemporaries already and is due for a nerf.
EDIT: Didn't appear to work correctly in live testing, needs another look.
Fire Prism:
Focused Beam damage type changed from plasma_cannon_pvp to explosive_pvp.
Focused Beam damage per hit reduced from 160 to 145.
Focused Beam windup reduced from 1.5 to 1.
This is a refinement after feedback which questioned the need to make such a big change. The objective of this change is to keep the Focused Beam from 1-shotting setup team models like Havocs and Devastators but with less of an effect in other areas. The lowered damage will do that, and the adjustment to the firing windup should keep the weapon at roughly the same dps as it is right now. If more math needs to be done, so be it and we’ll review. I’m fairly confident though.
Imperial Guard
Inquisitor:
Interrogator’s Armor now grants +100 hp in addition to its normal effects.
Excruciators cost increased from 140/20 to 130/25.
Assail range reduced from 38 to 35.
Lord Commissar:
Flak Jacket cost reduced from 150/30 to 125/30.
Flare red cost increased from 75 to 100.
Air Dropped Mines snare duration reduced from 30 seconds to 15 seconds.
Mines not done as of right now.
Guardsman Squad:
Sergeant population increased from 1 to 2.
Commissar population increased from 1 to 3.
Note to remember to adjust upkeep.
Reinforcement time increased from 2 seconds to 3 seconds.
Came up in stream as an alternative to Chim nerf.
Sentinel:
Cost increased from 300/0 to 330/0.
New change that came up in stream.
Upkeep increased from 1.7 to 2.55.
Stomp radius reduced from 10 to 8.
Population reduced from 15 to 12.
If we’re going to nerf this unit then nerf it. As is, this would offset the GM pop changes especially in a 2-sent build. Why bother with that set of changes if that’s the case?
Stormtrooper Squad:
Upkeep increased from 2.05 to 2.55.
Spotters:
Flare Shell upgrade moved from T2 to T1.
Flare Shell cost reduced from 75/10 to 50/10.
Let’s dump this as it’s ultimately not important. We’re making far bigger changes to this faction and we can come back to it if after the changes we feel the need.
Chimera:
Cost increased from 300/60 to 300/70.
This with the GM changes should be the most impactful changes to the roster for 2.9.
EDIT: Swapped out for GM nerf.
Ogryns:
Cost reduced from 425/90 to 400/85.
Reinforce cost increased from 61/13 to 66/14.
Bone 'ead Cost reduced from 100/25 to 85/25.
Leman Russ Battle Tank:
Default cannon reload reduced 1s.
Hull Lascannon damage reduced from 65 to 60.
Hull Lascannon cooldown reduced from 6 to 4. (8s -> 6s fire time)
Again, dump because it’s a set of changes that’s not important. They MIGHT be nice, but it also lacks any real support and ultimately is a very fine tune.
Ordo Malleus
Brother Captain:
Nemesis Deamonhammer cost reduced from 135/40 to 130/35.
Psychic Lash now requires T2 to unlock. (UI Positions of Enfeeble and Lash now swapped)
The Lash change is more of an Aegis nerf. Setups are one of the few things that can shut down Aegis + 2 Strikes in T1 and the Lash easily erases 1 setup team from the fight while the BC can face-tank through the 2nd. Just moving to T2 is probably the simplest change to do. This is something that might be a rework candidate.
Vortex no longer deals damage to targets hit.
Vortex now stuns and knocks back units hit for 7 seconds upon detonation.
This is far less of a problem to buff due to it being exclusive to Aegis. Stun and knockback, like Stomp, is useful for getting a setup team out of cover and more vulnerable to attack. As is, there’s no jump option for OM so the wipe potential of this is fairly minimal. But it helps IST and Ranged Strikes a lot to not have units instantly backpedal or just go back into cover. The ability still deals friendly fire, so at best it’ll only be useful as an escape mechanism in melee fights and is very bad to try and use as close support for retreating Terms.
Inquisitorial Stormtroopers:
Sergeant and Acolyte upkeep reduced from 5.1 to 2.55.
Grenade Launcher Barrage knockback grenade count increased from 1 to 4. (3 might be better right now it fires 3 and then 1)
Probably more worthy of being called a bug, but it should happen.
Grenade Launcher weapon profile changed to the following:
Burst 1-1, reload frequency 2-2 cooldown 0.5, windup 0 winddown 0 reload duration 5-5.
Sargeant no longer grants the Frag Grenade ability.
Sargeant now grants the Rapid Fire ability.
Rapid Fire -
“Temporarily overcharge the squad’s lasguns. For 10 seconds, the IST lasguns do not need to reload. Grenade Launchers are not affected. Energy cost set to 75. 30 second cooldown.”
This is a massive change that, combined with the Grenade Launcher changes and the presence of Plasma Guns, causes more problems than it solves. The grenade, while very unsexy, is functioning and has a role.
Sargeant no longer grants +15% damage to the squad.
Sargeant Laspistol dps increased from 8 to 12. (19.42 to 29.13 dph)
This shifts the damage bonus onto the Sargeant, which affects the squad’s special weapon scaling. If we’re going to make Grenade Launchers good, this should be a part of the package. Just consider it.
Acolyte no longer passively grants +2.5 hp/s to the squad.
Fanaticism no longer grants the squad invulnerability for 2.5 seconds.
Fanaticism duration increased from 2.5 seconds to 10 seconds.
Fanaticism now increases the squad’s health regeneration by 2.5 hp/s for the duration of the effect. Other effects remain.
This is a pretty massive and, imo, necessary nerf to the Acolyte. It also gives his Fanaticism ability more of a mainstay purpose instead of a quirky gimmick. I think it’s worth adding in as there’s some consensus that the Acolyte is bonkers but no real consensus on what to change.
Strike Squad:
Squad is now in melee stance by default.
Justicar equipped with Psybolt Ammunition can now use Energy Burst.
Purification now requires either Nemesis Force or Psybolt Ammunition to use.
This is a necessary nerf against the Aegis build. Aegis itself is a pretty standard shield, but OM provides amazing support for it. Putting a 15 power gate behind that support (or more if multiple Strike squads) should help alleviate the problem without making the Aegis too weak to be used in a non-abuse build. The upgrades themselves are worthwhile to get and are not a real large hoop to jump to unlock Purification.
Inquisitorial Operatives:
Cost reduced from 250/30 to 230/25.
Squad and Sergeant upkeep reduced from 3.2 to 2.55.
Incendiary Grenade residual damage per second increased from 5 to 10.
Incendiary Grenade residual damage type changed from flamer_pvp to combi_flamer_pvp.
(I’ll need to make a note to make sure that these are tuned to not stack on top of each other.)
Blind Grenade duration increased from 7 seconds to 10 seconds.
Blind Grenade flight speed increased by 20%.
Blind/Incendiary Grenade range increased from 25/30 to 40.
We’re using the Vindicare as the primary anti-setup now, so let’s just make this squad as accessible as possible ala Rangers. A support squad, not really a “primary” combat squad. This set of changes makes the squad cheaper both on cost and on upkeep and offers decent bump ups to their grenades. We can potentially nerf their dps later if needed.
Purgation Squad:
Squad once more is equipped with 3x Incinerators and Psilencers.
Vindicare Assassin:
Unit moved from T2 to T1.
Upkeep increased from 4.08 to 5.1.
Exitus Rifle damage profile has now changed to the following:
Default rifle (Exitus) now: 90 damage, 2s cooldown, 3s reload (18 dps, scouts 13, rangers 12/15)
Cameleoline Stealth Suit upgrade is now available in T1.
Cameleoline Stealth Suit grants 125 health and adds a 50% damage bonus to Target Acquired in addition to its normal effects.
Target Acquired Energy cost increased from 60 to 75.
Target Acquired cooldown reduced from 45 to 30.
Equip Exitus/Turbo-Penetrator Rounds ability now requires the Extended Operations upgrade.
Extended Operations now requires T2 to purchase.
Extended Operations no longer grants +125 hp. Other effects remain.
Extended Operations now unlocks the Equip Exitus/ Turbo Penetrator Rounds ability.
Exitus Rifle(Turbo) damage profile has now changed to the following:
Turbo Penetrator Rounds: 100 damage, 2s cooldown, 3s reload.
Extended Operations upgrade is now available in T1.
Target Acquired now requires the Extended Operations upgrade.
Equip Exitus/Turbo Penetrator Rounds ability now requires the Cameoline Stealth Suit.
Way, way too many moving parts here at the same time. It needs to be parsed down to as simple and understandable as possible. The Exitus change is necessary. But the upgrade moving doesn’t make sense. Perma-stealth in cover in T1 is pretty cancerous, especially when you add in 50% damage buffs. Still, the VA is extremely fragile. An OM player needs the VA to be sturdy enough to survive getting jumped or knocked back. Extended Operations already does that, so move that down to T1. It also puts a gate on Target Acquired which is very powerful early on. The Stealth Suit is then left to be the gate for the AV ability. Letting the AV ability be unlocked in T2 automatically is another route, but I’m very concerned about the speed of OM AV at that point. This set of changes keeps the setup of the VA as simple as possible as the issue with the VA had nothing to do with its performance or upgrades but its new T1 status.
Rhino:
Upkeep increased from 2.08 to 2.55.
Lascannon build time reduced from 30 seconds to 15 seconds.
Lascannon damage per hit increased from 100 to 125.
What’s important here? Making the LasRhino more accessible. We’ll wait and see on the rest now.
Terminator Librarian:
Upkeep increased from 4.08 to 5.1.
Sanctuary energy cost reduced from 65 to 60.
Grey Knight Terminators:
Upkeep increased from 2.55 to 2.91.
Squad is now capped at 1 per player.
Yes Cyris, this needs to be in! Not having a red cost is a big problem. Only in extreme lategame scenarios in 1v1 will this even matter when you already have 1x Paladins and 1x GK Terms. This is more teamgame oriented where it is far easier to access that kind of composition.
Paladin Squad:
Upkeep increased from 2.55 to 2.91.
Land Raider Crusader:
Cost reduced from 750/180 to 700/180.
Orks
Lootas:
Hide da Gunz now costs 15 red to activate.
Deffgun long range threshold changed from 49 range to 35 range.
Stikkbommas:
Stikkbomb damage increased from 35 to 40.
EDIT: There was some talk about stikks in stream, but nothing came from it.
Wartrukk:
Upkeep increased from 1.275 to 2.55.
Kommandos:
Kommando Nob upkeep increased from .6 to 2.55.
Luv da Dakka red cost increased from 5 to 15. (check on this. Might be 5 PER member)
Space Marines
Globals:
Drop Pod cost changed from 300/0/100 to 325/0/125.
This has probably been the single biggest thing that I’ve heard. Lowering the red cost just reinforces the role of a mid T1 timing push and the tac spam meta. We want this to be accessible, but not to the point that whole metas are built around it!
Drop Pod breaks up on impact (still deals damage / knockback) and no longer reinforces.
Drop Pod no longer reinforces after landing.
Drop Pod health reduced from 500 to 75.
This is just swapping the Pod to the dummy Pod already in code that drops. It still gives red on destruction so that’s a minor nerf to the ability compared to your suggestion.
Venerable Dreadnought Drop Pod cost reduced from 600/50/300 to 500/50/300.
Force Commander:
Teleport wargear replaced with Jump Pack wargear that grants the Leap ability, which deals knockback.
Jump Pack cost set to 100/30. Available in T2.
Teleport delay increased from 0 seconds to 1 second.
I know you reallly want this in, but this is another case where it might cause more problems than it solves. The FC doesn’t need access to even more knockback. If this was without knockback, maybe. But it’s just a set that makes a lot of changes to make a small adjustment. An increase in the delay will provide roughly the same time the FC would take jumping to the target instead and is far simpler all around.
Techmarine:
Bionics melee damage bonus increased from 15% to 20%.
Axe of the Mechanicum now grants +100 hp in addition to its other effects.
Axe of the Mechanicum cost increased from 100/20 to 100/25.
Plasma Gun cost increased from 120/30 to 120/35.
This is pretty close to what the feedback says.
Apothecary:
Customized Storm Bolter auto-fire damage reduced from 35 to 17.5. (½)
We’re bug-fixing this thing first so let’s see where we are at once that is in.
Armor of the Apothecarion speed bonus condition changed from out of combat to in combat.
Armor of the Apothecarion no longer grants bonus speed to the Apothecary.
This one was rightly pointed out as a bad idea by the feedback. AoA makes the Apo far too slippery to effectively snipe without having a lot of assault in your arsenal. The speed bonus in general is just bizarre so removing it is probably the simplest fix.
Sternguard Veteran Squad:
Vengeance Rounds damage modifier vs vehicles reduced from .5 to .45.
Again, unnecessary and ultimately unimportant.
Whirlwind:
Cost reduced from 360/50 to 280/70.
Unit no longer has the Hunter Seeker ability.
Speed reduced from 6 to 5.
Turret rotation rate increased from 40 to 48.
Unit cap reduced from 2 per player to 1 per player.
Very hacksaw-like, but more discussion is needed on what to do with it. I say we table redesign decisions here and just deal with the major problem which is spammability in teams.
Tyranids
Globals:
Tyrannoformation Towers no longer grant red to opponents who destroy them.
Spawn Tyrant Guard cost changed from 300/50/175 to 300/40/200.
Spawn Venom Brood cost reduced from 300/0/150 to 300/0/125.
Mycetic Spores cost reduced from 400/0/175 to 350/0/150.
Again, not kicking the beehive for very incremental changes. Far larger changes will likely affect how these two globals will be evaluated.
Synapse Backlash:
Backlash now deals 8% damage to all targets.
Backlash damage against Genestealers reduced from 18% to 12%.
Knockback distance on backlash reduced by 25%.
The scale of the changes here are roster changing. What really needs to change here? Genestealers. So let’s get that and the knockback and come back if needed.
Hive Tyrant:
Bioplasma cast time reduced from 4 seconds to 3 seconds.
Ravener Alpha:
Tunnel experience yield reduced from 75 to 50.
Hardened Carapace cost reduced from 120/25 to 110/20.
Hardened Carapace health increase increased from 100 to 150.
Damage Synapse cost increased from 120/35 to 120/40.
Regenerate cost reduced from 150/30 to 120/30.
Corrosive Devourer cost reduced from 150/50 to 130/40.
Again, hit the important, leave the rest.
Lictor Alpha:
Corrosive Claws no longer slows enemy vehicles by 25% and increases damage taken to units by 20% on hit.
Corrosive Claws damage type changed from melee_pvp to heavy_melee_pvp.
Corrosive Claws damage per hit increased from 51 to 60.
This one’s my bad. I tried to make this thing simpler but frankly, it’s not needed. For now. I still have concerns about this when considering the new AV situation but fuck it.
Hormagaunt Squad:
Upkeep reduced from 3.825 to 2.55.
Termagant Squad:
Upkeep reduced from 3.825 to 2.55.
Endless Swarm:
Build time reduced from 30 seconds to 15 seconds.
Upgrade now adds 2 models to the squad rather than increasing the squad’s hp by 10%.
Warrior Brood:
Upkeep increased from 2.55 to 3.825.
Size reduced from medium to small.
Hp increased from 340 to 350. (1020 to 1050)
Barbed Stranger cost reduced from 50/25 to 50/20.
Barbed_strangler_pvp damage vs garrison increased from 3 to 5.
Adrenal Glands no longer grant the squad Reverse Synapse.
Adrenal Glands squad health increase reduced from 50% to 30%.
Adrenal Glands is no longer exclusive to the Thorax Swarm upgrade.
Electroshock Grubs weapon disable duration increased from 2 seconds to 8 seconds.
Electroshock Grubs no longer disables weaponry upon detonation.
So many changes, let’s see how they do. We’re moving too many parts of the Nid AV at the same time and this is the easiest to cut without messing with other things.
Ravener Brood:
Squad now starts with the anti_infantry_ranged decorator.
Sight increased from 38 to 40.
Devourer range increased from 34 to 38.
Enhanced Muscle Coil cost increased from 40/10 to 50/15.
Squad can now enter garrisons.
Burrow Strike ability is now only usable by Default and EMC Raveners.
Raveners now have the Corrosive Devourers upgrade available in T2 for 100/30.
Corrosive Devourers upgrade is exclusive with the Enhanced Muscle Coil upgrade.
Corrosive Devourers-
“Equip the squad with Corrosive Devourers, effective against all infantry. X dps inferno range 38. Squad loses the ability to Burrow Strike.”
Raveners aren’t a bad squad. The purpose of this set was to provide the roster with ranged damage scaling. But making Venoms more accessible and usable will change this equation a lot on top of upkeep changes. Let’s wait and see.
Venom Brood:
Upkeep increased from 2.55 to 3.825.
Size reduced from medium to small.
Hp increased from 340 to 350. (1020 to 1050)
Venom Cannon range increased from 44 to 48.
Venom Cannon damage per hit increased from 30 to 40.
The problem with the Venom AV isn’t the range. It’s range is ultimately sufficient and its closest equivalent, Tankbustas, operate just fine at the same range. The biggest difference is that the Venom completely lacks the damage to actually threaten vehicles versus their risk in being popped. It makes no sense to make it in the same ballpark of damage as Tankbustas as Venoms offer support to the army and also has both a long range poke and a snare on its roster, but a bump up to its damage will be fine. Synapse creatures don’t stack on each other, so the concern of overbuffing is minimal here.
Tyrant Guard:
Speed increased from 3.5 to 4.
Tyrant Guard speed increase under Synapse reduced from 1.5 to 1.
This one has come up a few times in feedback and it would help the unit a lot.
Zoanthrope:
Upkeep increased from 2.55 to 3.825.
Squad now has the Symbiosis upgrade. Available in T3.
Symbiosis upgrade replaces Focused Warp Blast with Symbiosis ability. Cost set to 75/15.
(need to update the UI)
Symbiosis -
“Target an allied Tyranid and heal them for up to 30% of their max health over 10 seconds. The Zoanthrope is immobile while channeling the ability. Range 15, 75 second cooldown. Energy cost set to 60.”
The ability has a pretty healthy range and cooldown, so they’re all toned down.
Genestealers:
Cost changed from 400/45 to 360/50.
Reinforce time reduced from 5 seconds to 3 seconds.
EDIT: I can't remember if this is working properly or was cut.
Lictor(T3):
Upkeep reduced from 7.65 to 5.1.
Renamed to Deathleaper.
I just don’t see the need but it’s such a minor thing. Meh.
Carnifex:
Upkeep reduced from 3.1867 to 2.55.
The ONE upkeep change that’s redacted. It’s just that so much underneath it is changing, so let’s just wait.
Build time reduced from 50 seconds to 45 seconds.
Cost reduced from 600/150 to 575/150.
Venom Cannon splash increased from 0 to 1.
EDIT: Came up in stream. Set to match the splash profile of lastanks for now.
Neurothrope:
Upkeep increased from 2.55 to 5.1.
Cost reduced from 400/100 to 400/75.
Default attack damage increased from 45 to 60.
Default attack range increased from 45 to 60.
Paroxysm movement speed reduction increased from 20% to 40%.
--------------
There were a couple of things that have proposals or are a bit in the air. Those are being listed even more raw here:
Problem: Curse of Tzeentch is not as good as it was.
Concerns: With no damage on retreat, a lot of its potency has been removed. However, there were times when CoT would completely delete high model squads before.
Solution Proposal:
Curse of Tzeentch can no longer detonate faster than once every 3 seconds.
Curse of Tzeentch no longer cancels once the targeted squad is in retreat.
Basically the ToN change onto CoT. Think this would be elegant as it would allow a pop on retreat where units are forced to clump but not instant domino kills like before.
Problem: 2 sent play? Cost?
Concerns: Sent punishes too hard for too little cost. IG comps are too versatile with GM/Sent combos, allowing the IG player to tech/get an earlier lead for less.
Solution: Make the Sentinel more expensive, and the Stomp a little harder to land.
Talked on stream, decided on a cost nerf. Think it'll work, we'll see.
Problem: AoA makes Apo impossible to attack.
Concerns:
Solution: ???
No idea on how to make AoA less trolly in teams.
---------------
If you guys and gals got something to say, feel free to say it as well. I might do 1 more stream with more pure live testing as most of the Cope's work is done here, but we'll see.
Hey guys! For those of you who have been watching the patch making streams, which you can find at https://www.twitch.tv/atlastheinquiring , you're not seeing anything new here. The sheet is almost entirely copy/paste from the stream.
For those who haven't, however, there have been a couple revisions from the 2.9 Beta sheet you had seen earlier. There might still be a few revisions to this, but I'm just letting people know in case they haven't seen the streams here.
Bugs
Just get them fixed.
Purifier Justicar hp regen has been corrected whilst the squad is at level 2.
Maps
Unimportant right now for balance talk.
Gameplay
Black Relic will be handling this part. We’ll try to make transports load and unload a bit more reliably, and we’ll make jump squads jump as a unit more reliably. However, give up anything on vehicle pathing.
Auras/Abilities
The following abilities have been changed to affect only your own army or be affected by your own army.
Cloaking Shroud
Sacred Standard
Defend
Advanced Healing
Boss Pole
Stubbornness (LC only stacks on his own troops, not all troops around him)
Aura of Discipline
None Shall Fall
This list has been trimmed down to what is the real “problem” abilities in team games. It’s tempting to add Spiritual Rites and Breath of Nurgle to this list but this hits what really counts. We could reiterate and add more to the list in a later patch if this batch is successful.
Chaos Space Marines
Chaos Lord:
Blood Maul cost reduced from 150/50 to 140/40.
Daemonic Visage cost reduced from 125/35 to 125/30.
Chaos Sorcerer:
Curse of Tzeentch range increased from 30 to 35.
Range is already 40.
Curse of Tzeentch no longer deals friendly fire.
Curse of Tzeentch damage type changed from piercing to plasma.
Curse of Tzeentch range increased from 30 to 35.
Curse of Tzeentch duration reduced from 25 seconds to 15 seconds.
Curse of Tzeentch increases incoming damage by 20% for 15s. Effect is not cancelled in retreat.
Too many changes here at the same time. Let’s try the doom effect and see how it goes.
Warp energy cost increased from 30 to 35.
Raptor Squad:
Daemonic Fury damage reduced from 150 to 120.
Land Raider Phobos:
Cost increased from 700/160 to 700/180.
Came up in stream.
Eldar
Warlock:
Destructor cast delay increased from .2 to .5.
A counter suggestion to the Destructor damage nerf. Looked like it worked in the live test.
Farseer:
Runes of Reaping cooldown reduction of Guide reduced from 25% to 15%. Other effects remain.
This was brought up during the stream.
Howling Banshees:
Upkeep cost increased from 2.16 to 2.55.
Exarch cost reduced from 90/20 to 80/20.
Rangers:
Cost increased from 210/20 to 220/25.
Pathfinder Gear cost reduced from 75/20 to 75/15.
Pathfinder Gear damage increase changed from +25% damage to +15% damage. (75 to 69)
Wraithguard:
Wraithcannon courage damage increased from 30 to 40.
Spiritseer upkeep increased from 1.5 to 2.55.
Spiritseer Destructor range increased from 38 to 44.
Squad speed increased from 2.5 to 3.
Wraithsight speed increase reduced from 1.5 to 1.
Squad is no longer stunned for X seconds upon the death of a nearby Wraithsight user.
EDIT: This one got revised a lot on stream.
Autarch:
Skyleap energy cost reduced from 80 to 60.
Didn't check to see if this got properly fixed at the end.
Dark Reaper Squad:
Aspect of Reaper no longer passively increases the squad’s speed by .5 or increase the squad’s damage by 10%.
Aspect of Reaper now changes the damage type of Reaper Launchers from inferno_pvp to plasma_pvp.
Aspect of Reaper cost increase from 65/25 to 75/25.
This one needs to be rethought a bit as it’s a big change. The feedback here is very… sporadic... to be frank, and we’re making other big changes.
Fire Dragons:
Squad and Exarch upkeep increased from 2.5 to 2.55.
Warp Spider Squad:
Squad and Exarch upkeep increased from 2.39 to 2.55.
Haywire Grenade cooldown increased from 40 to 48 seconds.
Wraithlord:
Wraithbone health regeneration reduced from 70 hp/s to 35 hp/s.
This should really be added. It’s simply far too fast. We could maybe adjust this to make it heal less over more time but, frankly, this unit is cheaper and more versatile than most of its contemporaries already and is due for a nerf.
EDIT: Didn't appear to work correctly in live testing, needs another look.
Fire Prism:
Focused Beam damage type changed from plasma_cannon_pvp to explosive_pvp.
Focused Beam damage per hit reduced from 160 to 145.
Focused Beam windup reduced from 1.5 to 1.
This is a refinement after feedback which questioned the need to make such a big change. The objective of this change is to keep the Focused Beam from 1-shotting setup team models like Havocs and Devastators but with less of an effect in other areas. The lowered damage will do that, and the adjustment to the firing windup should keep the weapon at roughly the same dps as it is right now. If more math needs to be done, so be it and we’ll review. I’m fairly confident though.
Imperial Guard
Inquisitor:
Interrogator’s Armor now grants +100 hp in addition to its normal effects.
Excruciators cost increased from 140/20 to 130/25.
Assail range reduced from 38 to 35.
Lord Commissar:
Flak Jacket cost reduced from 150/30 to 125/30.
Flare red cost increased from 75 to 100.
Air Dropped Mines snare duration reduced from 30 seconds to 15 seconds.
Mines not done as of right now.
Guardsman Squad:
Sergeant population increased from 1 to 2.
Commissar population increased from 1 to 3.
Note to remember to adjust upkeep.
Reinforcement time increased from 2 seconds to 3 seconds.
Came up in stream as an alternative to Chim nerf.
Sentinel:
Cost increased from 300/0 to 330/0.
New change that came up in stream.
Upkeep increased from 1.7 to 2.55.
Stomp radius reduced from 10 to 8.
Population reduced from 15 to 12.
If we’re going to nerf this unit then nerf it. As is, this would offset the GM pop changes especially in a 2-sent build. Why bother with that set of changes if that’s the case?
Stormtrooper Squad:
Upkeep increased from 2.05 to 2.55.
Spotters:
Flare Shell upgrade moved from T2 to T1.
Flare Shell cost reduced from 75/10 to 50/10.
Let’s dump this as it’s ultimately not important. We’re making far bigger changes to this faction and we can come back to it if after the changes we feel the need.
Chimera:
Cost increased from 300/60 to 300/70.
This with the GM changes should be the most impactful changes to the roster for 2.9.
EDIT: Swapped out for GM nerf.
Ogryns:
Cost reduced from 425/90 to 400/85.
Reinforce cost increased from 61/13 to 66/14.
Bone 'ead Cost reduced from 100/25 to 85/25.
Leman Russ Battle Tank:
Default cannon reload reduced 1s.
Hull Lascannon damage reduced from 65 to 60.
Hull Lascannon cooldown reduced from 6 to 4. (8s -> 6s fire time)
Again, dump because it’s a set of changes that’s not important. They MIGHT be nice, but it also lacks any real support and ultimately is a very fine tune.
Ordo Malleus
Brother Captain:
Nemesis Deamonhammer cost reduced from 135/40 to 130/35.
Psychic Lash now requires T2 to unlock. (UI Positions of Enfeeble and Lash now swapped)
The Lash change is more of an Aegis nerf. Setups are one of the few things that can shut down Aegis + 2 Strikes in T1 and the Lash easily erases 1 setup team from the fight while the BC can face-tank through the 2nd. Just moving to T2 is probably the simplest change to do. This is something that might be a rework candidate.
Vortex no longer deals damage to targets hit.
Vortex now stuns and knocks back units hit for 7 seconds upon detonation.
This is far less of a problem to buff due to it being exclusive to Aegis. Stun and knockback, like Stomp, is useful for getting a setup team out of cover and more vulnerable to attack. As is, there’s no jump option for OM so the wipe potential of this is fairly minimal. But it helps IST and Ranged Strikes a lot to not have units instantly backpedal or just go back into cover. The ability still deals friendly fire, so at best it’ll only be useful as an escape mechanism in melee fights and is very bad to try and use as close support for retreating Terms.
Inquisitorial Stormtroopers:
Sergeant and Acolyte upkeep reduced from 5.1 to 2.55.
Grenade Launcher Barrage knockback grenade count increased from 1 to 4. (3 might be better right now it fires 3 and then 1)
Probably more worthy of being called a bug, but it should happen.
Grenade Launcher weapon profile changed to the following:
Burst 1-1, reload frequency 2-2 cooldown 0.5, windup 0 winddown 0 reload duration 5-5.
Sargeant no longer grants the Frag Grenade ability.
Sargeant now grants the Rapid Fire ability.
Rapid Fire -
“Temporarily overcharge the squad’s lasguns. For 10 seconds, the IST lasguns do not need to reload. Grenade Launchers are not affected. Energy cost set to 75. 30 second cooldown.”
This is a massive change that, combined with the Grenade Launcher changes and the presence of Plasma Guns, causes more problems than it solves. The grenade, while very unsexy, is functioning and has a role.
Sargeant no longer grants +15% damage to the squad.
Sargeant Laspistol dps increased from 8 to 12. (19.42 to 29.13 dph)
This shifts the damage bonus onto the Sargeant, which affects the squad’s special weapon scaling. If we’re going to make Grenade Launchers good, this should be a part of the package. Just consider it.
Acolyte no longer passively grants +2.5 hp/s to the squad.
Fanaticism no longer grants the squad invulnerability for 2.5 seconds.
Fanaticism duration increased from 2.5 seconds to 10 seconds.
Fanaticism now increases the squad’s health regeneration by 2.5 hp/s for the duration of the effect. Other effects remain.
This is a pretty massive and, imo, necessary nerf to the Acolyte. It also gives his Fanaticism ability more of a mainstay purpose instead of a quirky gimmick. I think it’s worth adding in as there’s some consensus that the Acolyte is bonkers but no real consensus on what to change.
Strike Squad:
Squad is now in melee stance by default.
Justicar equipped with Psybolt Ammunition can now use Energy Burst.
Purification now requires either Nemesis Force or Psybolt Ammunition to use.
This is a necessary nerf against the Aegis build. Aegis itself is a pretty standard shield, but OM provides amazing support for it. Putting a 15 power gate behind that support (or more if multiple Strike squads) should help alleviate the problem without making the Aegis too weak to be used in a non-abuse build. The upgrades themselves are worthwhile to get and are not a real large hoop to jump to unlock Purification.
Inquisitorial Operatives:
Cost reduced from 250/30 to 230/25.
Squad and Sergeant upkeep reduced from 3.2 to 2.55.
Incendiary Grenade residual damage per second increased from 5 to 10.
Incendiary Grenade residual damage type changed from flamer_pvp to combi_flamer_pvp.
(I’ll need to make a note to make sure that these are tuned to not stack on top of each other.)
Blind Grenade duration increased from 7 seconds to 10 seconds.
Blind Grenade flight speed increased by 20%.
Blind/Incendiary Grenade range increased from 25/30 to 40.
We’re using the Vindicare as the primary anti-setup now, so let’s just make this squad as accessible as possible ala Rangers. A support squad, not really a “primary” combat squad. This set of changes makes the squad cheaper both on cost and on upkeep and offers decent bump ups to their grenades. We can potentially nerf their dps later if needed.
Purgation Squad:
Squad once more is equipped with 3x Incinerators and Psilencers.
Vindicare Assassin:
Unit moved from T2 to T1.
Upkeep increased from 4.08 to 5.1.
Exitus Rifle damage profile has now changed to the following:
Default rifle (Exitus) now: 90 damage, 2s cooldown, 3s reload (18 dps, scouts 13, rangers 12/15)
Cameleoline Stealth Suit upgrade is now available in T1.
Cameleoline Stealth Suit grants 125 health and adds a 50% damage bonus to Target Acquired in addition to its normal effects.
Target Acquired Energy cost increased from 60 to 75.
Target Acquired cooldown reduced from 45 to 30.
Equip Exitus/Turbo-Penetrator Rounds ability now requires the Extended Operations upgrade.
Extended Operations now requires T2 to purchase.
Extended Operations no longer grants +125 hp. Other effects remain.
Extended Operations now unlocks the Equip Exitus/ Turbo Penetrator Rounds ability.
Exitus Rifle(Turbo) damage profile has now changed to the following:
Turbo Penetrator Rounds: 100 damage, 2s cooldown, 3s reload.
Extended Operations upgrade is now available in T1.
Target Acquired now requires the Extended Operations upgrade.
Equip Exitus/Turbo Penetrator Rounds ability now requires the Cameoline Stealth Suit.
Way, way too many moving parts here at the same time. It needs to be parsed down to as simple and understandable as possible. The Exitus change is necessary. But the upgrade moving doesn’t make sense. Perma-stealth in cover in T1 is pretty cancerous, especially when you add in 50% damage buffs. Still, the VA is extremely fragile. An OM player needs the VA to be sturdy enough to survive getting jumped or knocked back. Extended Operations already does that, so move that down to T1. It also puts a gate on Target Acquired which is very powerful early on. The Stealth Suit is then left to be the gate for the AV ability. Letting the AV ability be unlocked in T2 automatically is another route, but I’m very concerned about the speed of OM AV at that point. This set of changes keeps the setup of the VA as simple as possible as the issue with the VA had nothing to do with its performance or upgrades but its new T1 status.
Rhino:
Upkeep increased from 2.08 to 2.55.
Lascannon build time reduced from 30 seconds to 15 seconds.
Lascannon damage per hit increased from 100 to 125.
What’s important here? Making the LasRhino more accessible. We’ll wait and see on the rest now.
Terminator Librarian:
Upkeep increased from 4.08 to 5.1.
Sanctuary energy cost reduced from 65 to 60.
Grey Knight Terminators:
Upkeep increased from 2.55 to 2.91.
Squad is now capped at 1 per player.
Yes Cyris, this needs to be in! Not having a red cost is a big problem. Only in extreme lategame scenarios in 1v1 will this even matter when you already have 1x Paladins and 1x GK Terms. This is more teamgame oriented where it is far easier to access that kind of composition.
Paladin Squad:
Upkeep increased from 2.55 to 2.91.
Land Raider Crusader:
Cost reduced from 750/180 to 700/180.
Orks
Lootas:
Hide da Gunz now costs 15 red to activate.
Deffgun long range threshold changed from 49 range to 35 range.
Stikkbommas:
Stikkbomb damage increased from 35 to 40.
EDIT: There was some talk about stikks in stream, but nothing came from it.
Wartrukk:
Upkeep increased from 1.275 to 2.55.
Kommandos:
Kommando Nob upkeep increased from .6 to 2.55.
Luv da Dakka red cost increased from 5 to 15. (check on this. Might be 5 PER member)
Space Marines
Globals:
Drop Pod cost changed from 300/0/100 to 325/0/125.
This has probably been the single biggest thing that I’ve heard. Lowering the red cost just reinforces the role of a mid T1 timing push and the tac spam meta. We want this to be accessible, but not to the point that whole metas are built around it!
Drop Pod breaks up on impact (still deals damage / knockback) and no longer reinforces.
Drop Pod no longer reinforces after landing.
Drop Pod health reduced from 500 to 75.
This is just swapping the Pod to the dummy Pod already in code that drops. It still gives red on destruction so that’s a minor nerf to the ability compared to your suggestion.
Venerable Dreadnought Drop Pod cost reduced from 600/50/300 to 500/50/300.
Force Commander:
Teleport wargear replaced with Jump Pack wargear that grants the Leap ability, which deals knockback.
Jump Pack cost set to 100/30. Available in T2.
Teleport delay increased from 0 seconds to 1 second.
I know you reallly want this in, but this is another case where it might cause more problems than it solves. The FC doesn’t need access to even more knockback. If this was without knockback, maybe. But it’s just a set that makes a lot of changes to make a small adjustment. An increase in the delay will provide roughly the same time the FC would take jumping to the target instead and is far simpler all around.
Techmarine:
Bionics melee damage bonus increased from 15% to 20%.
Axe of the Mechanicum now grants +100 hp in addition to its other effects.
Axe of the Mechanicum cost increased from 100/20 to 100/25.
Plasma Gun cost increased from 120/30 to 120/35.
This is pretty close to what the feedback says.
Apothecary:
Customized Storm Bolter auto-fire damage reduced from 35 to 17.5. (½)
We’re bug-fixing this thing first so let’s see where we are at once that is in.
Armor of the Apothecarion speed bonus condition changed from out of combat to in combat.
Armor of the Apothecarion no longer grants bonus speed to the Apothecary.
This one was rightly pointed out as a bad idea by the feedback. AoA makes the Apo far too slippery to effectively snipe without having a lot of assault in your arsenal. The speed bonus in general is just bizarre so removing it is probably the simplest fix.
Sternguard Veteran Squad:
Vengeance Rounds damage modifier vs vehicles reduced from .5 to .45.
Again, unnecessary and ultimately unimportant.
Whirlwind:
Cost reduced from 360/50 to 280/70.
Unit no longer has the Hunter Seeker ability.
Speed reduced from 6 to 5.
Turret rotation rate increased from 40 to 48.
Unit cap reduced from 2 per player to 1 per player.
Very hacksaw-like, but more discussion is needed on what to do with it. I say we table redesign decisions here and just deal with the major problem which is spammability in teams.
Tyranids
Globals:
Tyrannoformation Towers no longer grant red to opponents who destroy them.
Spawn Tyrant Guard cost changed from 300/50/175 to 300/40/200.
Spawn Venom Brood cost reduced from 300/0/150 to 300/0/125.
Mycetic Spores cost reduced from 400/0/175 to 350/0/150.
Again, not kicking the beehive for very incremental changes. Far larger changes will likely affect how these two globals will be evaluated.
Synapse Backlash:
Backlash now deals 8% damage to all targets.
Backlash damage against Genestealers reduced from 18% to 12%.
Knockback distance on backlash reduced by 25%.
The scale of the changes here are roster changing. What really needs to change here? Genestealers. So let’s get that and the knockback and come back if needed.
Hive Tyrant:
Bioplasma cast time reduced from 4 seconds to 3 seconds.
Ravener Alpha:
Tunnel experience yield reduced from 75 to 50.
Hardened Carapace cost reduced from 120/25 to 110/20.
Hardened Carapace health increase increased from 100 to 150.
Damage Synapse cost increased from 120/35 to 120/40.
Regenerate cost reduced from 150/30 to 120/30.
Corrosive Devourer cost reduced from 150/50 to 130/40.
Again, hit the important, leave the rest.
Lictor Alpha:
Corrosive Claws no longer slows enemy vehicles by 25% and increases damage taken to units by 20% on hit.
Corrosive Claws damage type changed from melee_pvp to heavy_melee_pvp.
Corrosive Claws damage per hit increased from 51 to 60.
This one’s my bad. I tried to make this thing simpler but frankly, it’s not needed. For now. I still have concerns about this when considering the new AV situation but fuck it.
Hormagaunt Squad:
Upkeep reduced from 3.825 to 2.55.
Termagant Squad:
Upkeep reduced from 3.825 to 2.55.
Endless Swarm:
Build time reduced from 30 seconds to 15 seconds.
Upgrade now adds 2 models to the squad rather than increasing the squad’s hp by 10%.
Warrior Brood:
Upkeep increased from 2.55 to 3.825.
Size reduced from medium to small.
Hp increased from 340 to 350. (1020 to 1050)
Barbed Stranger cost reduced from 50/25 to 50/20.
Barbed_strangler_pvp damage vs garrison increased from 3 to 5.
Adrenal Glands no longer grant the squad Reverse Synapse.
Adrenal Glands squad health increase reduced from 50% to 30%.
Adrenal Glands is no longer exclusive to the Thorax Swarm upgrade.
Electroshock Grubs weapon disable duration increased from 2 seconds to 8 seconds.
Electroshock Grubs no longer disables weaponry upon detonation.
So many changes, let’s see how they do. We’re moving too many parts of the Nid AV at the same time and this is the easiest to cut without messing with other things.
Ravener Brood:
Squad now starts with the anti_infantry_ranged decorator.
Sight increased from 38 to 40.
Devourer range increased from 34 to 38.
Enhanced Muscle Coil cost increased from 40/10 to 50/15.
Squad can now enter garrisons.
Burrow Strike ability is now only usable by Default and EMC Raveners.
Raveners now have the Corrosive Devourers upgrade available in T2 for 100/30.
Corrosive Devourers upgrade is exclusive with the Enhanced Muscle Coil upgrade.
Corrosive Devourers-
“Equip the squad with Corrosive Devourers, effective against all infantry. X dps inferno range 38. Squad loses the ability to Burrow Strike.”
Raveners aren’t a bad squad. The purpose of this set was to provide the roster with ranged damage scaling. But making Venoms more accessible and usable will change this equation a lot on top of upkeep changes. Let’s wait and see.
Venom Brood:
Upkeep increased from 2.55 to 3.825.
Size reduced from medium to small.
Hp increased from 340 to 350. (1020 to 1050)
Venom Cannon range increased from 44 to 48.
Venom Cannon damage per hit increased from 30 to 40.
The problem with the Venom AV isn’t the range. It’s range is ultimately sufficient and its closest equivalent, Tankbustas, operate just fine at the same range. The biggest difference is that the Venom completely lacks the damage to actually threaten vehicles versus their risk in being popped. It makes no sense to make it in the same ballpark of damage as Tankbustas as Venoms offer support to the army and also has both a long range poke and a snare on its roster, but a bump up to its damage will be fine. Synapse creatures don’t stack on each other, so the concern of overbuffing is minimal here.
Tyrant Guard:
Speed increased from 3.5 to 4.
Tyrant Guard speed increase under Synapse reduced from 1.5 to 1.
This one has come up a few times in feedback and it would help the unit a lot.
Zoanthrope:
Upkeep increased from 2.55 to 3.825.
Squad now has the Symbiosis upgrade. Available in T3.
Symbiosis upgrade replaces Focused Warp Blast with Symbiosis ability. Cost set to 75/15.
(need to update the UI)
Symbiosis -
“Target an allied Tyranid and heal them for up to 30% of their max health over 10 seconds. The Zoanthrope is immobile while channeling the ability. Range 15, 75 second cooldown. Energy cost set to 60.”
The ability has a pretty healthy range and cooldown, so they’re all toned down.
Genestealers:
Cost changed from 400/45 to 360/50.
Reinforce time reduced from 5 seconds to 3 seconds.
EDIT: I can't remember if this is working properly or was cut.
Lictor(T3):
Upkeep reduced from 7.65 to 5.1.
Renamed to Deathleaper.
I just don’t see the need but it’s such a minor thing. Meh.
Carnifex:
Upkeep reduced from 3.1867 to 2.55.
The ONE upkeep change that’s redacted. It’s just that so much underneath it is changing, so let’s just wait.
Build time reduced from 50 seconds to 45 seconds.
Cost reduced from 600/150 to 575/150.
Venom Cannon splash increased from 0 to 1.
EDIT: Came up in stream. Set to match the splash profile of lastanks for now.
Neurothrope:
Upkeep increased from 2.55 to 5.1.
Cost reduced from 400/100 to 400/75.
Default attack damage increased from 45 to 60.
Default attack range increased from 45 to 60.
Paroxysm movement speed reduction increased from 20% to 40%.
--------------
There were a couple of things that have proposals or are a bit in the air. Those are being listed even more raw here:
Problem: Curse of Tzeentch is not as good as it was.
Concerns: With no damage on retreat, a lot of its potency has been removed. However, there were times when CoT would completely delete high model squads before.
Solution Proposal:
Curse of Tzeentch can no longer detonate faster than once every 3 seconds.
Curse of Tzeentch no longer cancels once the targeted squad is in retreat.
Basically the ToN change onto CoT. Think this would be elegant as it would allow a pop on retreat where units are forced to clump but not instant domino kills like before.
Problem: 2 sent play? Cost?
Concerns: Sent punishes too hard for too little cost. IG comps are too versatile with GM/Sent combos, allowing the IG player to tech/get an earlier lead for less.
Solution: Make the Sentinel more expensive, and the Stomp a little harder to land.
Talked on stream, decided on a cost nerf. Think it'll work, we'll see.
Problem: AoA makes Apo impossible to attack.
Concerns:
Solution: ???
No idea on how to make AoA less trolly in teams.
---------------
If you guys and gals got something to say, feel free to say it as well. I might do 1 more stream with more pure live testing as most of the Cope's work is done here, but we'll see.