Renoding power

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
Antandron
Level 2
Posts: 196
Joined: Sat 15 Jul, 2017 11:50 am

Renoding power

Postby Antandron » Fri 20 Jul, 2018 4:13 pm

Not sure if this is a problem but in 3v3s when a player destroys a power node it becomes an APM contest between the aggressor clicking to decap the point and the defender trying to renode. If the player renodes and the node is destroyed almost immediately, they get a lot (all?) of the req back so they can do the same thing again and again. It might be that the ASM I had hacking at the node pause before decapping, so the other player could renode until I gave up and decided to destroy the gens instead. Is there an easy solution to this?
User avatar
Torpid
Moderator
Posts: 3536
Joined: Sat 01 Jun, 2013 12:09 pm
Location: England, Leeds

Re: Renoding power

Postby Torpid » Fri 20 Jul, 2018 4:44 pm

I don't mind the little APM game but it wouldn't be half as annoying if your units automatically attacked power nodes... Which I think now that we have hold fire they should... Though this was debated long ago and that was declined for whatever reason.

Finally las-turrets would hurt power nodes then though :(
Lets make Ordo Malleus great again!
User avatar
Dark Riku
Level 5
Posts: 3082
Joined: Sun 03 Feb, 2013 10:48 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Renoding power

Postby Dark Riku » Fri 20 Jul, 2018 7:37 pm

They should definitely not be automatically attacked again. Not everything has hold fire either.

The apm game is fine. They lose a bit of req each time and your units actually gain some EXP. So not a bad deal ^^
Paranoid Kamikaze
Level 4
Posts: 590
Joined: Tue 02 Feb, 2016 5:12 am

Re: Renoding power

Postby Paranoid Kamikaze » Fri 20 Jul, 2018 9:17 pm

It still gives full experience. Farm it for a free lvl 4 army :)
User avatar
Adeptus Noobus
Level 4
Posts: 991
Joined: Sat 15 Feb, 2014 12:47 pm
Contact:

Re: Renoding power

Postby Adeptus Noobus » Sat 21 Jul, 2018 6:58 pm

Paranoid Kamikaze wrote:It still gives full experience. Farm it for a free lvl 4 army :)

Lose the game in the meantime because no power and T3 units upon you.
Paranoid Kamikaze
Level 4
Posts: 590
Joined: Tue 02 Feb, 2016 5:12 am

Re: Renoding power

Postby Paranoid Kamikaze » Sat 21 Jul, 2018 7:20 pm

Adeptus Noobus wrote:
Paranoid Kamikaze wrote:It still gives full experience. Farm it for a free lvl 4 army :)

Lose the game in the meantime because no power and T3 units upon you.


Only no power if they have your power farm. If attacking their farm and you want to hurt their economy you can just attack gens.
User avatar
Toilailee
Champion
Posts: 918
Joined: Tue 12 Mar, 2013 8:26 pm

Re: Renoding power

Postby Toilailee » Sun 22 Jul, 2018 3:19 am

Torpid wrote:Though this was debated long ago and that was declined for whatever reason.

Yes, and I still dont't understand why. Apparently majority of people wanted this but the only argument for it that I can remember is to keep lascanons and shit from autofiring at nodes and revealing themselves. But how often does that happen really? And now that they have hold fire it isn't as big of an issue anymore. Meanwhile lasturrets not being able to damage nodes or squads not being able to repair and shoot nodes at the same time happens in nearly every IG game.


Dark Riku wrote:They should definitely not be automatically attacked again. Not everything has hold fire either.

The apm game is fine. They lose a bit of req each time and your units actually gain some EXP. So not a bad deal ^^

WHYYYYY?

Please explain your reasons for both points, I'm genuinely curious. Imo something like a 5 second delay for rebuying nodes would be perfectly justified. Either that or nodes not refunding any resources if they're destroyed before they've finished building. That would at least force you commit some resources to trolling your opponent.
Swift I: You're not a nerd, you're just a very gifted social spastic
User avatar
Rostam
Level 4
Posts: 545
Joined: Wed 12 Oct, 2016 8:32 pm

Re: Renoding power

Postby Rostam » Sun 22 Jul, 2018 6:55 am

may be a 3 sec delay after node is destroyed b4 purchasing the next aint such a bad idea
“Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself.” Leon Tolstoy
LOCALgHOST
Level 3
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon 15 Jan, 2018 2:48 pm

Re: Renoding power

Postby LOCALgHOST » Sun 22 Jul, 2018 8:13 am

You serious? It's a big problem?
User avatar
Codex
Moderator
Posts: 569
Joined: Wed 01 May, 2013 5:57 pm
Location: Bristol, UK
Contact:

Re: Renoding power

Postby Codex » Sun 22 Jul, 2018 9:17 am

Rostam wrote:may be a 3 sec delay after node is destroyed b4 purchasing the next aint such a bad idea


Forget that it "ain't such a bad idea", why would 3 sec delay be a good idea? Why 3 seconds? Why not 1 second?
Righteousness does not make right
Antandron
Level 2
Posts: 196
Joined: Sat 15 Jul, 2017 11:50 am

Re: Renoding power

Postby Antandron » Sun 22 Jul, 2018 9:59 am

If a player has gone through the trouble of using units to destroy a power node then they have earned the opportunity to decap the point without having to have a quicker reaction time than the other player. 1 second would be enough to allow melee units to decap but more time might be necessary to allow ranged units to destroy the node, move towards it and then decap it. In my experience I had ASM meleeing the node while I right-clicked it as fast as I could to decap it immediately but my opponent's Q bashing was too good for me.
User avatar
Rostam
Level 4
Posts: 545
Joined: Wed 12 Oct, 2016 8:32 pm

Re: Renoding power

Postby Rostam » Sun 22 Jul, 2018 10:12 am

Adeptus Noobus wrote:
Paranoid Kamikaze wrote:It still gives full experience. Farm it for a free lvl 4 army :)

Lose the game in the meantime because no power and T3 units upon you.

totally agreed with noobus
Last edited by Rostam on Sun 22 Jul, 2018 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
“Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself.” Leon Tolstoy
User avatar
Dark Riku
Level 5
Posts: 3082
Joined: Sun 03 Feb, 2013 10:48 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Renoding power

Postby Dark Riku » Sun 22 Jul, 2018 9:59 pm

Toilailee wrote:WHYYYYY?

Please explain your reasons for both points, I'm genuinely curious. Imo something like a 5 second delay for rebuying nodes would be perfectly justified. Either that or nodes not refunding any resources if they're destroyed before they've finished building. That would at least force you commit some resources to trolling your opponent.
The first point (auto target) because when I am chasing anything I don't want my units to suddenly start targetting that oh so threatening power node.
Because if you don't remember, units shoot at nodes over everything else :/
2nd point (APM game) was already explained?
User avatar
Oddnerd
Level 4
Posts: 727
Joined: Mon 27 Oct, 2014 1:50 am

Re: Renoding power

Postby Oddnerd » Sun 22 Jul, 2018 10:30 pm

Wait, if I destroy a partly-finished node, my opponent gets a partial refund? Fuck that - you should be prepared to pay the full price, no refunds, or else don't node it.
[EL] A Paige (of AT)
Level 2
Posts: 78
Joined: Thu 04 Jun, 2015 8:55 am

Re: Renoding power

Postby [EL] A Paige (of AT) » Mon 23 Jul, 2018 2:26 am

Ah yes, the legendary, My contested power node> Your army.

Many a time have I been able to double my opponents in a 3v3 setting due to one of them being distracted by a gen'd up farm.

The node kills their attention while I cap the rest of the map.
User avatar
Broodwich
Level 4
Posts: 527
Joined: Fri 12 Apr, 2013 10:04 pm

Re: Renoding power

Postby Broodwich » Mon 23 Jul, 2018 6:30 am

+1 to paying full price for a node. I think gens are fine with a refund
Fas est ab hoste doceri
User avatar
Asmon
Level 4
Posts: 890
Joined: Mon 29 Apr, 2013 8:01 pm

Re: Renoding power

Postby Asmon » Tue 24 Jul, 2018 1:06 am

Toilailee wrote:WHYYY


A good reason is the behaviour of tank turrets. They naturally turn to non-auto-attacked targets. For instance Nids towers, SM drop pods...

It is extremely annoying when you want your tank to chase something but its fucking turret is totally facing the wrong way because of some bs somewhere that was left untouched and now, considering the rotation speed of the turret that is not that high, you've lost your main target.

I hate it with FP and Falcon and would likely hate it as much with other tanks if I'd play those noob races more.

Paying full price is stupid imo, a short delay like 2-3s would be fine.

The xp part Kami is refering to is indeed a nice trade-off, still insufficiant but that can go a long way for leveling TSM.
User avatar
Adeptus Noobus
Level 4
Posts: 991
Joined: Sat 15 Feb, 2014 12:47 pm
Contact:

Re: Renoding power

Postby Adeptus Noobus » Sun 29 Jul, 2018 4:47 pm

Dark Riku wrote:
Toilailee wrote:WHYYYYY?

Please explain your reasons for both points, I'm genuinely curious. Imo something like a 5 second delay for rebuying nodes would be perfectly justified. Either that or nodes not refunding any resources if they're destroyed before they've finished building. That would at least force you commit some resources to trolling your opponent.
The first point (auto target) because when I am chasing anything I don't want my units to suddenly start targetting that oh so threatening power node.
Because if you don't remember, units shoot at nodes over everything else :/
2nd point (APM game) was already explained?


With the newly introduced hold fire, your point is no longer valid. Remember how this was implemented to make Tanks fire only on what you want them to fire on? For example: Tanks prioritize vehicles over infantry UNLESS you command them to shoot infantry and have hold fire switched on. Should the targeted unit cross paths with an enemy Tank, your Tank will still target them over the Tank. I don't see how this should not work for infantry with regards to power nodes as well.
User avatar
Dark Riku
Level 5
Posts: 3082
Joined: Sun 03 Feb, 2013 10:48 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Renoding power

Postby Dark Riku » Mon 30 Jul, 2018 9:57 am

Except that not everything has the hold fire function @Noobus.
And I don't want any unit to stop because of a node in case I A-move them.
User avatar
Cyris
Level 4
Posts: 649
Joined: Fri 22 Mar, 2013 10:22 pm

Re: Renoding power

Postby Cyris » Mon 30 Jul, 2018 3:55 pm

Nodes give partial refund? That's nonsense! If we can't make them cost full price, I'll be in favor of a short delay.

This is a silly place for an apm fight. Fight on the battlefield, not a footsies dance.

Auto-targeting nodes will never come back under my watch. The reasons have been correctly explained by others.
User avatar
Black Relic
Level 4
Posts: 844
Joined: Mon 29 Jul, 2013 3:05 am
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Renoding power

Postby Black Relic » Mon 30 Jul, 2018 4:19 pm

just so you know the delay could end up effecting team mates. I did this in my mod. There might be a way to make it so the delay only effects the player but I have not figured it out yet.
"...With every strike of his sword, with every word of his speech, does he reaffirm the ideals of our honored master..." -From the Teachings of Roboute Guilliman as laid down in the Apocrypha of Skaros. Space Marines Codex pg. 54
User avatar
Dullahan
Level 2
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue 15 Sep, 2015 10:57 pm

Re: Renoding power

Postby Dullahan » Fri 10 Aug, 2018 12:00 am

Toilailee wrote:
Torpid wrote:Though this was debated long ago and that was declined for whatever reason.

Yes, and I still dont't understand why. Apparently majority of people wanted this but the only argument for it that I can remember is to keep lascanons and shit from autofiring at nodes and revealing themselves. But how often does that happen really? And now that they have hold fire it isn't as big of an issue anymore. Meanwhile lasturrets not being able to damage nodes or squads not being able to repair and shoot nodes at the same time happens in nearly every IG game.


Dark Riku wrote:They should definitely not be automatically attacked again. Not everything has hold fire either.

The apm game is fine. They lose a bit of req each time and your units actually gain some EXP. So not a bad deal ^^

WHYYYYY?

Please explain your reasons for both points, I'm genuinely curious. Imo something like a 5 second delay for rebuying nodes would be perfectly justified. Either that or nodes not refunding any resources if they're destroyed before they've finished building. That would at least force you commit some resources to trolling your opponent.


Just have nodes instabuild when you buy it and give the abiliy a cooldown equal to the current build time.

Nodes building over time has always allowed them to outheal a lot of damage sources. Atleast if it is instant built they don't get a refund for a partial completion.

I would vastly prefer that than having units attack nodes when I don't want them to again.

Return to “Balance Discussion”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 25 guests