Why is SM so strong in 3v3? - Analysis

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
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Oddnerd
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Re: Why is SM so strong in 3v3? - Analysis

Postby Oddnerd » Fri 20 Jul, 2018 12:19 am

As someone else pointed out - one of the problems is that it was meant to counter ranged blobs but it also lets SM melee units win melee fights because of its lack of friendly fire. If you gave the missiles friendly fire damage and knockback, then would still be good against ranged blobs but wouldn't allow you to fire into a melee without disrupting your own units.

That probably wouldn't solve the problem entirely, but it seems like a starting point that most people can agree on. Maybe reducing the number of missiles slightly but increasing their precision?
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Broodwich
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Re: Why is SM so strong in 3v3? - Analysis

Postby Broodwich » Fri 20 Jul, 2018 1:02 am

I like the reduce salvo/increase damage option for starters. It's good in 3v3 because its 3 volleys, only one being on target, will still cover an entire lane full of infantry. Therefore it is useful because one lane typically has 1 full army or more to disrupt with its missiles. Obviously in 1v1 this isn't the case

The strength of the kb is also over the top. Is sending models flying as much as a nuke really necessary? This just feels like something thrown in "because" and given random stats to see if anyone used it, rather than a well thought out implementation.

I mean seriously, its missiles make less noise than a cultist pistol
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boss
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Re: Why is SM so strong in 3v3? - Analysis

Postby boss » Fri 20 Jul, 2018 1:45 am

I can you as a player from all game modes ww is useless its a troll unit that is all, the only useful thing is has is the av missile that can help deal with the last blow to something if you want arty you get pdevs. If you already wining a game you get a ww and troll a lot you never see it in a 1v1 that how useful it is.
I can tell you as a techmarine main for sm I never won a game cos of a ww in anygame mode so why nerf it pls??????
Forums great more stuff to talk about.
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Malachi
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Re: Why is SM so strong in 3v3? - Analysis

Postby Malachi » Sat 21 Jul, 2018 9:03 am

Well, I'm an average skill level player at best, me and a few friends just play Elite in our own company every week or so, so take this feedback as it is.

I used to play Chaos Sorc for years, since Chaos Rising showed up. Recently, I switched to SM FC.
Suddenly, the game seems easy mode. I'm the Champion every game, and lose like no units, ever.
My no-brainer build is Tac-Power Farm-Devs/ASM-(Shotguns-optional)-T2+Drop Pod Tacs-Whirlwind-Teleporter Pack-Power Fist

The above lets me field an incredibly strong T1 via drop pod, while also outteching people to T2. Come T2, I have anti-infantry domination via Whirlwind + Tacs and all the AV I will ever need by Teleporter+Power Fist + Whirlwind ability + if really, really pressed, Missle Launcher on Tacs.

On my play level, this is not remotely close to anything that other factions can field in the same time. I switched from years of experience with Sorc to being an SM noob, and win like 50% more games.

[e:] Oh yeah, this is mostly 2v2 perspective, sometimes 3v3. 1v1, I would totally kick my own FC butt as Sorc, obviously. ;)
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Re: Why is SM so strong in 3v3? - Analysis

Postby LOCALgHOST » Sat 21 Jul, 2018 1:58 pm

boss wrote:I can you as a player from all game modes ww is useless its a troll unit that is all, the only useful thing is has is the av missile that can help deal with the last blow to something if you want arty you get pdevs. If you already wining a game you get a ww and troll a lot you never see it in a 1v1 that how useful it is.
I can tell you as a techmarine main for sm I never won a game cos of a ww in anygame mode so why nerf it pls??????



we played too many games where I lose with WW too :)
Paranoid Kamikaze
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Re: Why is SM so strong in 3v3? - Analysis

Postby Paranoid Kamikaze » Sat 21 Jul, 2018 6:21 pm

With the Whirlwind you need to hit multiple squads or it's not worth it. It does very little damage so it's only good for its disruption. In a situation of 2 units attacking 1, or any other situation of a similar size, the Whirlwind is a worse choice compared to other units. At the longer ranges the missiles go out more so you even have to drive closer for small fights whereas for large fights you can sit back more safely.

Good in 3v3's against people who blob
Bad in 1v1 against people who don't blob
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Rostam
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Re: Why is SM so strong in 3v3? - Analysis

Postby Rostam » Sat 21 Jul, 2018 6:43 pm

Also there is a big diffrence between FC and other SM heroes FC >> TM >>> Apo
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Re: Why is SM so strong in 3v3? - Analysis

Postby Paranoid Kamikaze » Sat 21 Jul, 2018 7:21 pm

Rostam wrote:Also there is a big diffrence between FC and other SM heroes FC >> TM >>> Apo


No, there isn't. Not enough players at high skill levels playing all SM heroes to draw any conclusion. People just complain about FC because he's more popular.
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Rostam
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Re: Why is SM so strong in 3v3? - Analysis

Postby Rostam » Sat 21 Jul, 2018 7:56 pm

FC is braindead both in 1v1 and team games
yes it is also very popular
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Re: Why is SM so strong in 3v3? - Analysis

Postby Paranoid Kamikaze » Sun 22 Jul, 2018 1:11 am

Rostam wrote:FC is braindead both in 1v1 and team games
yes it is also very popular


No, it's not. All SM heroes are about the same in terms of difficulty. You should try to get better and experience what it's like at a higher skill level with SM.
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Re: Why is SM so strong in 3v3? - Analysis

Postby Torpid » Sun 22 Jul, 2018 8:24 am

Guys. Maybe before you say "FC is EZ compared to other heroes"

Or "All SM heroes are equally hard/easy to use at high level" you put some sort of demonstrable argument alongside such bold claims... Otherwise it's just going to be a rather pointless back and forth of you're right, I'm right, over and over...
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Codex
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Re: Why is SM so strong in 3v3? - Analysis

Postby Codex » Sun 22 Jul, 2018 8:56 am

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2099

Everyone refamiliarise yourselves with the forums rules. Right now there's just claims and counterclaims with little argumentation. Consider yourselves warned.

Deleted 3 posts for being pointless.

Update: Deleted 1 post for failing to match standards.
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TE | NoSkill
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Re: Why is SM so strong in 3v3? - Analysis

Postby TE | NoSkill » Sun 22 Jul, 2018 3:39 pm

FC is the esiest to play hero;

armor is usually artificer, each weapon option is useful at any time ( tho pick is usually depending on situation) and support gear supplements the playstyles with tankyness/mobility/buffyness.
If you didn t go for an pure buff FC and want sololy an killy FC, then Termie armor.

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