drop pods

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
PianoMan
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drop pods

Postby PianoMan » Sun 17 Jun, 2018 11:43 am

should cost 200 red just so they're not a retard fallback plan without any drawbacks
don't think i played a game where i didnt use the drop pod xd
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Atlas
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Re: drop pods

Postby Atlas » Sun 17 Jun, 2018 8:07 pm

Which drop pod are you talking about? The reinforce one?
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Antandron
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Re: drop pods

Postby Antandron » Sun 17 Jun, 2018 8:28 pm

I assume he is talking about the drop pod with a tac squad. 300 req + 100 red for a squad worth 450 req, plus the reinforce point and the disruption upon landing is too cheap imo. Assuming 1 red is worth about 1 red, then 200 red + 300 req, or 400 req + 100 red is a better idea.
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Re: drop pods

Postby Crewfinity » Sun 17 Jun, 2018 8:58 pm

I would agree the tac pod is too cheap for what it can do in t1. Being able to make a push for a gen farm, get a cheap squad where you need it and instant army reinforcemdnt point is a but much for 300 req. Maybe 350? Even when you know its coming its still extremely difficult to prepare against and can lead to a big T2 advantage with very little risk for the sm player.
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Re: drop pods

Postby Atlas » Mon 18 Jun, 2018 8:27 am

...should I nerf it?
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Crewfinity
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Re: drop pods

Postby Crewfinity » Mon 18 Jun, 2018 11:53 am

A small nerf would be fine imo
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Cyris
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Re: drop pods

Postby Cyris » Mon 18 Jun, 2018 3:59 pm

+50 req imo

I'd still use it plenty at that cost, but it won't be as efficient.
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Dark Riku
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Re: drop pods

Postby Dark Riku » Mon 18 Jun, 2018 5:08 pm

Atlas wrote:...should I nerf it?
No.

You gotta consider the race where this global is on.
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Black Relic
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Re: drop pods

Postby Black Relic » Mon 18 Jun, 2018 9:02 pm

Well, a delay in when the marines come down would be except able, so it requires a bit more foresight to use. Increase the delay from 7 seconds to 10. A nerf but not a huge one. Will not be so brain dead to use, and allow the enemy to react to it better.

A req increase imo is not a good one imo. My reasoning is that SM cost soo much to reinforce and while dropping in tacs is good, its normally done to replace a unit of tacs lost in the middle of a fight, or towards the end of a fight when you and bleed alot and your enemy barley won the fight by the skin of their teeth and the drop pod pulls you into the victor of the fight.

However there is still all that reinforcing you need to do and the upkeep that the new tactical squad gives. That's why it is normal regulated to being use to replace a Tactical Squad for cheaper cost.
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Antandron
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Re: drop pods

Postby Antandron » Mon 18 Jun, 2018 9:53 pm

Dark Riku wrote:
Atlas wrote:...should I nerf it?
No.

You gotta consider the race where this global is on.


I don´t understand, are you saying that SM are UP or something similar? Better to fix the other problems (whatever they are, idk) that leave a broken(ish) global in the game.
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Dark Riku
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Re: drop pods

Postby Dark Riku » Mon 18 Jun, 2018 11:46 pm

Antandron wrote:I don´t understand, are you saying that SM are UP or something similar? Better to fix the other problems (whatever they are, idk) that leave a broken(ish) global in the game.
I don't think the global is broken at all.
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Re: drop pods

Postby Cheekie Monkie » Thu 21 Jun, 2018 1:42 pm

Atlas wrote:...should I nerf it?

Commander Boreale would probably say no
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Re: drop pods

Postby LOCALgHOST » Thu 21 Jun, 2018 3:45 pm

omg stop nerfin' what's don't need a nerf.

drop pod reinforce got delay, which is enough to squads see it lands, and die without reinforcing (unlike orkish, or sorc reinforce)

cost increase? yeah they just got so much req in equal skill games, yeah
delay increase? so you can forget about disruption/knockback - it's never hit, like an orbital bombardment, yeah
red increase? yeah, so you can forget about T3 at all.

you do that, and I finally stop playin' this game because of no more core fun.
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Re: drop pods

Postby Vindicarex » Thu 21 Jun, 2018 7:38 pm

I agree that this ability doesn't strike me as needing of a nerf.

Unlike many other (popular) commanders, SM barely get chances to use globals in T1 and have rather niche uses for T2 globals (maybe with exception of Angels of death). Compare this to Warlock, Warboss, Sorc, Plague Champ, etc. who have very good general-purpose globals at early points in the game. The fact the SM have a somewhat powerful general purpose global is not so different form many others. It's definitely in a much better spot than the near-useless state of drop pods in retail.

If anything, maybe increase the red cost by 25 if you really need a justification for SM saving 100 req on a Tactical Squad.
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Re: drop pods

Postby Paranoid Kamikaze » Fri 22 Jun, 2018 12:33 am

It's good for bringing in a unit to help stop over aggression in the early-mid game or if you want to go more in for a push. It does that and not much else. Don't see anything wrong with it.
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Re: drop pods

Postby Cyris » Fri 22 Jun, 2018 12:37 am

Vindicarex wrote:If anything, maybe increase the red cost by 25 if you really need a justification for SM saving 100 req on a Tactical Squad.


2 notes on that:
1- SM getting even 100 red in T1 can be hard, so increasing the red cost will quickly remove this ability from T1 viability.
2- The pod costs 300 req, which is a 150 discount from the cost of a tac.

100 red to gain 150 req + disruption + reinforce + forward instant spawn is why I personally think the pod is a bit OP. Not a lot, but even just a small req cost increase (even +25 would be fine) would still see me using it in T1. Bump up the red and it moves to T2 in many match ups, so why even balance it as a T1 global then? I like it as a T1 feature of SM. Drop pods are viscerally awesome, so I want them part of the meta!
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Re: drop pods

Postby Paranoid Kamikaze » Fri 22 Jun, 2018 12:44 am

Cyris wrote:
Vindicarex wrote:If anything, maybe increase the red cost by 25 if you really need a justification for SM saving 100 req on a Tactical Squad.


2 notes on that:
1- SM getting even 100 red in T1 can be hard, so increasing the red cost will quickly remove this ability from T1 viability.
2- The pod costs 300 req, which is a 150 discount from the cost of a tac.

100 red to gain 150 req + disruption + reinforce + forward instant spawn is why I personally think the pod is a bit OP. Not a lot, but even just a small req cost increase (even +25 would be fine) would still see me using it in T1. Bump up the red and it moves to T2 in many match ups, so why even balance it as a T1 global then? I like it as a T1 feature of SM. Drop pods are viscerally awesome, so I want them part of the meta!


The reinforce isn't as useful as other races having it as SM units are high health with a high reinforce cost. Most useful with an Apo, though other commanders shouldn't be punished for that. The disruption if around 7 seconds or so I think so it's pretty easy to dodge.
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Re: drop pods

Postby Vindicarex » Fri 22 Jun, 2018 5:13 am

Paranoid Kamikaze wrote:It's good for bringing in a unit to help stop over aggression in the early-mid game or if you want to go more in for a push. It does that and not much else. Don't see anything wrong with it.


This is my initial impression as well. Certainly good, but and considering T1 SM globals are a mythos themselves, I don't see why a 100 red ability would be any different than 125 - only to delay the "rush" time of it, just when globals are needed and used most (most other t1 globals are cheaper than 100).
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Toilailee
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Re: drop pods

Postby Toilailee » Fri 22 Jun, 2018 5:51 am

Increase the req cost if you absolutely have to but don't you dare touch the red cost. It'll ruin my gimmicky 2 scout 2 tac build. :x
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Re: drop pods

Postby Black Relic » Fri 22 Jun, 2018 10:55 am

Disruption is more like 5.5 seconds once used, the squad spawns after 7. This global is mainly used in conjunction with shotgun blast, suppression or put on set up teams when used offensively (or at least that is what i do). Besides its cool to see drop pods being used offensively anyway.

So i dont want any increase from req or red. The delay make it an actual 6-6.5 second delay before disruption and 8-8.5 seconds til spawning of the tacs. Thats the limit of any "nerfing" this ability needs. And honestly it does not need a nerf at all. UYC costs less and has a smaller CD and pretty much is an "i win" button in t1. Can SM have something for once in t1 that is good and can be used almost every game?

Imo Drop Pod should do more damage on landing anyway. Not like instant kill, but say what it does now plus 5% of the models max HP, because i want the bastards that get hit to either have a massive fucking headache, or no head at all.
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Re: drop pods

Postby PianoMan » Fri 22 Jun, 2018 1:21 pm

could we have posts from people that actually used it (in a non-retard way, looking at you localghost) or played against it?
they transition way too easily into sternguard which are amazing this patch, it allows you to get a unit in t2 and then easily win an engagement and that's usually game at that point especially if you bought a dreadnought
in t1 it's stupid how you can just fuck up and then just recover with the fucking drop pod, even if you lose asm you can still somehow get back into the game with it

a 100 red increase was a little bit over the top suggestion but it's price should be increased

also local you could try not being a one trick pony and maybe you'd understand xd
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Toilailee
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Re: drop pods

Postby Toilailee » Fri 22 Jun, 2018 5:19 pm

If someone recovers a 1v1 after losing his ASM, it's not because of 100 req cheaper tacs that come in with disruption for one fight.

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Paranoid Kamikaze
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Re: drop pods

Postby Paranoid Kamikaze » Fri 22 Jun, 2018 5:50 pm

It's honestly not even that powerful. People are just used to SM spending no red early/mid game and getting Termies in T3.
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Re: drop pods

Postby PianoMan » Fri 22 Jun, 2018 6:34 pm

Toilailee wrote:If someone recovers a 1v1 after losing his ASM, it's not because of 100 req cheaper tacs that come in with disruption for one fight.

Image


maybe like in that 1v1 we played where the sm player won because of a fucking drop pod right
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Antandron
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Re: drop pods

Postby Antandron » Fri 22 Jun, 2018 6:38 pm

Did they get the drop pod for free?
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boss
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Re: drop pods

Postby boss » Fri 22 Jun, 2018 6:50 pm

I don't see why tac drop pod should be nerfed at all, it was changed to that you have to pick between reinforce pod from your hero or tac calling from global and that you save 100 rec for 100 red and since sm don't get to use a lot of there globals alot of the time it gets used abit.
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Re: drop pods

Postby PianoMan » Fri 22 Jun, 2018 7:36 pm

and the only one that's being used is the tac drop pod
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Re: drop pods

Postby Black Relic » Fri 22 Jun, 2018 8:38 pm

What other globals are there to use that activity help turn a fight for SM in t1?
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Re: drop pods

Postby Dark Riku » Fri 22 Jun, 2018 9:16 pm

Black Relic wrote:What other globals are there to use that activity help turn a fight for SM in t1?
FTE. That is all :(
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Re: drop pods

Postby Black Relic » Fri 22 Jun, 2018 11:45 pm

Idk if i would say fte turns fights that the SM player is going to lose tbh unless i im not using it well in t1 since i normally save it for ASM plus their bomb and missle tac and plasma gun. So pretty much only use it after t1. It normally just helps solidify a winning engagement that would otherwise be close. Unless you put it on Scouts that use a nade, that would turn a fight.
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