Space marine balance + ideas

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
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TE | NoSkill
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Re: Space marine balance + ideas

Postby TE | NoSkill » Thu 10 May, 2018 11:57 am

Swift wrote:
TE | NoSkill wrote:
boss wrote:Read what I said on the other topic as for this one nuke it as well pls.


Git gud?
Yeah, fine solution. Even then, I would have to force myself taking the worse option

What's that supposed to mean? That you'd have to continue using the balanced units already in the game without any of your suggestions added? Because if that is what you mean, then yes. I don't know how many times I've seen this posted but yes, they're fine as they are, don't fix what isn't broken.


No, I mean, that the other 2 weapon options ( exspecially cyclon missle launcher) is a LOT better in general and that s what makes it so much better in choice instead of having to poker, that the opponent goes massively on blob.


egewithin wrote:I just used HF on termies 3 times last night. It's more effective than I toughed. IG, nids, Orks and Eldar, it wrecks everything. This weapon needs no buffs IMO.


It s a change and not an plain buff!
A buff would be giving heavy flamer melta in general!
It s a change geared towards lessening the nuking potential on low-health-high-model units( Guardsemn die in 5 seconds, when in ability-AoE) for an option of an option to provide better allround working and therefore making an T3 weapon choice more versatile. It still requires a certain playstyle, but not it is dependant on how the player uses it and not on the niche situation.
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OceansAteAlaska
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Re: Space marine balance + ideas

Postby OceansAteAlaska » Thu 10 May, 2018 12:03 pm

It's Like you dont get that weapon choices have strengths and weaknesses and arent meant to counter everything
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TheGoldenChicken
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Re: Space marine balance + ideas

Postby TheGoldenChicken » Thu 10 May, 2018 12:05 pm

NoSkill you need to remember that one of the most expensive things in any strategy game (And with good reason), is versatility.

If you have a thing which can do everything, it either needs to be laughably bad at everything, or be laughably expensive. I'm somewhat in agreement that the HF should be better against heavy infantry (notice I say somewhat). But giving it melta damage, would be making it effective against everything. SM already have plenty of AV options, more soft than heavy, it is true, but they're so adaptable that any vehicle short of a baneblade or battlewagon should be no problem if you actually focus on it for just a few seconds.

Also remember the most important thing: Things aren't good in every situation! Like I said, you pay for versatility, the HF might not be versatile, but under the right circumstances it can force retreats, wipe multiple squads, destroy gen farms in seconds, and so on.

If everything could do everything, we might as well play DOW with only 1-man tac squads and no commanders.
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TE | NoSkill
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Re: Space marine balance + ideas

Postby TE | NoSkill » Thu 10 May, 2018 2:59 pm

TheGoldenChicken wrote:NoSkill you need to remember that one of the most expensive things in any strategy game (And with good reason), is versatility.

If you have a thing which can do everything, it either needs to be laughably bad at everything, or be laughably expensive. I'm somewhat in agreement that the HF should be better against heavy infantry (notice I say somewhat). But giving it melta damage, would be making it effective against everything. SM already have plenty of AV options, more soft than heavy, it is true, but they're so adaptable that any vehicle short of a baneblade or battlewagon should be no problem if you actually focus on it for just a few seconds.



Also remember the most important thing: Things aren't good in every situation! Like I said, you pay for versatility, the HF might not be versatile, but under the right circumstances it can force retreats, wipe multiple squads, destroy gen farms in seconds, and so on.

If everything could do everything, we might as well play DOW with only 1-man tac squads and no commanders.


I know;
Terminators are one of the most expensive units in the game to maintain and get, exspecially because of red and high CD.

And again, it is not because SM need more AV, it is because that would make the heavy flamer somewhat valid in the lategame, other then the dmg it does.

For 130 power I can go for an tank and don t have to soend req.
The main weapon wouldn t work any other then it does now, only the ability would have less nuking potential and have more even dmg for all targets.
If it is too strong, make an high CD on it and probably increase the cost of the flamer A BIT.
Because anything be good "in the right circumstances", but it s about the general usefulness, which ok-ish atm.
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Re: Space marine balance + ideas

Postby Swift » Thu 10 May, 2018 4:35 pm

The Chaos thread has been locked, and whilst this one is better, I don't think it will last much longer.

Certain contributions have been deleted so please keep it civil.
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egewithin
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Re: Space marine balance + ideas

Postby egewithin » Thu 10 May, 2018 5:02 pm

TE | NoSkill wrote:It s a change and not an plain buff!


TE | NoSkill wrote:a change


TE | NoSkill wrote:not an plain buff!


Okay, I am done with you. But, I was planning to make a Madness mod, maybe I can use this idea. You know, a mod that genestealers are 24 models, Stormboyz have a jump range of 200 and Terminators have 9 speed. You know, Madness.
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TE | NoSkill
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Re: Space marine balance + ideas

Postby TE | NoSkill » Thu 10 May, 2018 5:52 pm

egewithin wrote:
TE | NoSkill wrote:It s a change and not an plain buff!


TE | NoSkill wrote:a change


TE | NoSkill wrote:not an plain buff!


Okay, I am done with you. But, I was planning to make a Madness mod, maybe I can use this idea. You know, a mod that genestealers are 24 models, Stormboyz have a jump range of 200 and Terminators have 9 speed. You know, Madness.


It is tho. An change of an ability a first and foremost.
Depending, if you enjoyed it before or not, it s an buff or nerf.
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Re: Space marine balance + ideas

Postby Black Relic » Thu 10 May, 2018 9:58 pm

egewithin wrote:I just used HF on termies 3 times last night. It's more effective than I toughed. IG, nids, Orks and Eldar, it wrecks everything. This weapon needs no buffs IMO.


Out of curiosity where you reliant on the ability to get work done or did the weapon perform well without the need for the ability?
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egewithin
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Re: Space marine balance + ideas

Postby egewithin » Thu 10 May, 2018 11:33 pm

Black Relic wrote:
egewithin wrote:I just used HF on termies 3 times last night. It's more effective than I toughed. IG, nids, Orks and Eldar, it wrecks everything. This weapon needs no buffs IMO.


Out of curiosity where you reliant on the ability to get work done or did the weapon perform well without the need for the ability?


The ability helped me to force of entire armies within seconds, totally worth it. In the other hand, HF it self did a lot of damage, but couldn't see a clear effect. Since you know, enemy was busy with backing off so it was a chase.

It is obious that HF is fine.
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Cyris
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Re: Space marine balance + ideas

Postby Cyris » Fri 11 May, 2018 3:44 am

Please lock this.
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LordKira007
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Re: Space marine balance + ideas

Postby LordKira007 » Fri 11 May, 2018 2:48 pm

Cyris wrote:Please lock this.

Why? it is super productive and not annoying at all XD
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Rostam
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Re: Space marine balance + ideas

Postby Rostam » Fri 11 May, 2018 2:50 pm

Cyris wrote:Please lock this.


I agree with cyris
Better be locked
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Re: Space marine balance + ideas

Postby Torpid » Fri 11 May, 2018 2:59 pm

I think at this point any value that could be extracted from the thread has been, so I'll lock it.
Lets make Ordo Malleus great again!
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Re: Space marine balance + ideas

Postby Swift » Fri 11 May, 2018 3:37 pm

Torpid wrote:I think at this point any value that could be extracted from the thread has been, so I'll lock it.

Steal my thunder :x
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