The Puritan and the Radical...new heroes for OM

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
Professional Asshole
Level 1
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun 14 Jan, 2018 10:55 pm

The Puritan and the Radical...new heroes for OM

Postby Professional Asshole » Mon 07 May, 2018 12:27 am

I've been thinking about OM and what we really need at the end of the day are more...choices. The BC is simply trying to be everything at once and failing. So here's a rough sketch of the Puritan and the Radical, two sides of the inquisition.

Puritan

Base Model: FC

Role: Offense

Theme: Horde Breaker

Suggested Wargear: Thunder Hammer (t2, the Puritan's melee skill improves by 10 and he gain the Banishment ability, once used the target is banished to the warp for ten seconds, essentially a stasis effect), Flamer (t1 the Puritan gains the Purify passive, all enemies struck by the flamer suffer -1 to their HP generation for 10 secs, does not stack), Psilencer (t2 the Puritan gains the Psilence passive, all his ranged attacks drain 1 energy from the target squad/vehicle per hit).

Hexgrammic Warding (t1, the Puritan's courage improves by 100%, he gains immunity to knockback and he gains 50 health), Purified Armor (t2, the Puritan now deals 5 inferno damage in a small radius around him whenever he is struck, can only proc once every 1 sec, the Puritan gains a 100 health)

Writ of Judgment (t1, the Puritan deals 15% more melee damage and improves his charge distance from 12 to 16), Seal of Terra (t2, the Puritan gains +1 HP regen, 200 health and immunity to knockdown), Ironfaith Grenade (t2, the Puritan gains a grenade that deals 50 inferno damage and that makes affected squads take 20% more damage for 10 secs)

Suggested Globals: Enforcers (t2 squad of IG stormtroops with Hotshot Lasguns and the Demoralize ability, just like Chaos Terminators), Judgment (t2 AoE stun(3) that deals a moderate amount of plasma damage), Righteous Fury (t1, target squad gains immunity to suppression and deals 25% more damage, lasts for ten seconds, squad cannot retreat for duration of the ability).

Concept: The Puritan is all about breaking hordes, serving as a potent safeguard against early game melee rushes. His wargear is all about AoE damage with a side order of control, his globals meanwhile reinforce this concept.

Radical

Base Model: Either the Inquisitor or the LG

Role: Support

Theme: Versatile Support

Suggested Wargear: Hellrifle (t1, a slow firing weapon that deals 100% damage damage against all non vehicle armor), Rune Weapon (t1, a dispossessed daemon weapon that slows all enemies struck by it by 20% for ten secs, deals power melee damage & so long as the Radical wields the weapon they gain double double combat XP ), Daemonsword (t2, this weapon deals power melee damage and gives the Radical the demoralize passive, just like Chaos termies)

Daemonleathers (t1, the Radical gains 25 energy and can now use stealth), Haunted Cuirass (t2, the Radical gains a 20% for an attack to be deflected entirely along with 100 health and 25 energy), Sinner's Plate (t3, the Radical harnesses the dread power of the sinner's guilt, causing a selected enemy squad or hero to retreat back to base).

Abyssal Charge (t2, the Radical gains the abyssal charge grenade which functions exactly like a melta bomb, for 10 secs after detonation the affected vehicle's armor changes from vehicle to HI), Withered Corpse (t2, strapping the withered corpse of a possessed human to their back the Radical regains 1% of their health back with every attack), Unholy Idol (t1, as the Radical crushes the Unholy Idol is his hand so does he crush the enemy, one enemy hero or model is stunned and takes 50 damage per second that bypasses their armor, this ability is channeled for 3 secs and cannot affect vehicles).

Suggested globals: No Matter the Cost (t1, sacrifice a model, all allied units within radius X regain X health and X energy), Warp Path (t1, target squad or hero can teleport to any point within radius X), Summon the Daemonhost (t2, the daemonhost is a potent pyskeresque subhero that can "overcharge" his abilities, so long as the user is willing to bare the risk of wards failings).

Concept: The Radical is just that, a radical support hero that more often then not is about debuffing the enemy then buffing your owns, can be surprisingly tanky depending on wargear choices.

Thoughts people? And do note that is a very rough sketch, I haven't even proposed what the wargear and globals will cost yet.
User avatar
boss
Level 3
Posts: 339
Joined: Mon 22 Aug, 2016 11:48 pm

Re: The Puritan and the Radical...new heroes for OM

Postby boss » Mon 07 May, 2018 2:28 am

There was already ideas for new gk hero's just we don't have anyone to make them atm, the brother captain was to be a frontline support hero but since interceptors were moved to t3 gk don't have any real counter to setup teams no more so bc was made to do this, psychic lash aka fleshhook and nemesis vortex was to counter them is very dumb should have interceptors back in t1 and old bc.

However always like to hear new gk hero ideas there not bad tbh but like I said no one can mod new hero's atm so :(
Forums great more shit to talk about.
User avatar
Atlas
Moderator
Posts: 2089
Joined: Sun 02 Feb, 2014 5:23 pm
Location: Tarpon Springs, FL

Re: The Puritan and the Radical...new heroes for OM

Postby Atlas » Mon 07 May, 2018 5:31 pm

It's always interesting to see new takes on concept work for heroes. If you want, I can send you comparison notes of other work! About this stuff in general, it obviously needs fine tuning but it could be interesting. It's always a question of models and animations though :(
Atlas: Minister of Common Sense, Reasoning and Similar Sh*t
Professional Asshole
Level 1
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun 14 Jan, 2018 10:55 pm

Re: The Puritan and the Radical...new heroes for OM

Postby Professional Asshole » Tue 08 May, 2018 1:02 am

@Atlas & Boss

Reason why I suggest using the FC model for Puritan and Inquisitor/LG model for the Radical, it only needs a bit of reskinning. Admittedly some ideas probably should be modified so that we can do it with an absolute minimum of true "modding" as it were. Some pics describing the look I was thinking of for the Puritan and Radical respectively.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/wh4 ... 0411043035

https://media.senscritique.com/media/00 ... ologue.jpg
User avatar
Cyris
Level 4
Posts: 648
Joined: Fri 22 Mar, 2013 10:22 pm

Re: The Puritan and the Radical...new heroes for OM

Postby Cyris » Tue 08 May, 2018 2:39 am

I forget, can we have a 2nd and 3rd OM hero work in the commander selection?
User avatar
Black Relic
Level 4
Posts: 798
Joined: Mon 29 Jul, 2013 3:05 am
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: The Puritan and the Radical...new heroes for OM

Postby Black Relic » Tue 15 May, 2018 6:04 pm

There was an old file (idk if i have it anymore) that could allow for 8 commanders each race. In this caz it could be changed to 3 SM and 3 GK and just leave the 4th slot open.

The Inquisitor works extremely well with GK, so much so that its impressive. So all that's really needed is to make a few globals for her. I would want to carry over most of her globals though, like banewolf and hellfury. Her last one would be to make a squad of Acolytes, since in lore they pretty much follow an Inquisitor wherever they go, and help them get "work" done. Perhaps when they are nearby the Inquisitor she gains an increase to her capping rate and add to her energy regen?? Idk though, something useful but not too good.

For Hemgrammic Warding i'd say the 100% courage increase is not that impressive nor will be be that noticeable. Just give him 20% courage resistance and it would perform in the same fashion, but no be as effected by courage damage done when nearby units are suppressed. He can still maneuver around the very edge of a firing arc of a Set up and not be suppressed. The courage resistance would help against single target suppression like "aiming whats that", in fact it maybe not even suppress the hero when used. But i could be wrong.

The OM faction should have the mind blades, and the orbital bombardment be the constant globals, from that I think the Righteous Fury global would overlap and be too strong, especially with making a squad suppression immune in t1 even if it is for 10 seconds as it encourages people to try and not flank and just use brunt force. And Mind Blades already fits that area.

The Theme for your hero is as you mentioned a horde breaker. How about ways to force people to move? Such as a melee damage reduction for any enemy units nearby a targeted squad? It would force a blob to not want to engage. Or have a targeted squad gain melee damage resistance based on how many enemy units are nearby the targeted squad which would synergize well with Mind Blades.

As for the 3rd global I would be a similar way the Drop Pod with Tacs works. But its a Valkyrie that drops a unit of Strike Squad, thats sounds pretty solid to me. Instant reinforcing a line with a unit of strike squad members or putting in the back line of you enemy. Maybe even just teleport them in. Or it doesn't have to be strike squad, maybe purifiers in in t2 would be amazing instead. It fits with the in your face, melee oriented hero.
"...With every strike of his sword, with every word of his speech, does he reaffirm the ideals of our honored master..." -From the Teachings of Roboute Guilliman as laid down in the Apocrypha of Skaros. Space Marines Codex pg. 54
Vindicarex
Head of Balance
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun 06 Mar, 2016 2:46 am

Re: The Puritan and the Radical...new heroes for OM

Postby Vindicarex » Thu 21 Jun, 2018 7:48 pm

Imo, GK need a bit of a re design:

1.) No1 is even allowed to play them anymore - wtf is the point of having this mod/faction (with well-made models too!) if they are de-facto banned all the time?

2.) As Boss pointed out, GK are laughably lacking in countering suppression teams (whereas every other race has quite a few direct counters). On the other hand, they seem to be brokenly powerful (i.e. mass anti-everything purifiers).

3.) Their AV is very weird - they got no "hard" AV counter (i.e. lascannon - why not just give them this?). This makes spamming Vehicles against GK, who are not T3, a complete nightmare to face as GK.

Seems to me that their roster and unit roles need to be looked at. IDK what the design philosophy is/was behind their current inception - but it's clearly not working anymore.
Myrdal
Admin
Posts: 344
Joined: Mon 15 Apr, 2013 1:47 pm

Re: The Puritan and the Radical...new heroes for OM

Postby Myrdal » Sun 01 Jul, 2018 11:22 am

Cyris wrote:I forget, can we have a 2nd and 3rd OM hero work in the commander selection?

Yes, Garrick provided a modded selection screen with 6 or 8 commander slots a while ago. I didn't do extensive testing but I remember adding the inq as a second om hero without issues.
User avatar
SarDauk
Level 1
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu 17 May, 2018 6:27 pm

Re: The Puritan and the Radical...new heroes for OM

Postby SarDauk » Sun 01 Jul, 2018 1:35 pm

Is it possible to create a new section in the army selection for OM ?
"Drive me closer! I want to hit them with my sword!"
Myrdal
Admin
Posts: 344
Joined: Mon 15 Apr, 2013 1:47 pm

Re: The Puritan and the Radical...new heroes for OM

Postby Myrdal » Sun 01 Jul, 2018 5:51 pm

SarDauk wrote:Is it possible to create a new section in the army selection for OM ?

The number of race slots is locked down by the dev but I suspect you could work around that. Problem is it would require extensive modding on the menu gfx files. I'm not sure there's a decent decompiler/editor for those around, iirc Garrick used mostly a hexeditor for his commander slot fix. That is a very tedious process I can assure you.
User avatar
SarDauk
Level 1
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu 17 May, 2018 6:27 pm

Re: The Puritan and the Radical...new heroes for OM

Postby SarDauk » Mon 02 Jul, 2018 12:26 am

Myrdal wrote:The number of race slots is locked down by the dev but I suspect you could work around that. Problem is it would require extensive modding on the menu gfx files. I'm not sure there's a decent decompiler/editor for those around, iirc Garrick used mostly a hexeditor for his commander slot fix. That is a very tedious process I can assure you.


Why did the devs lock the number of race slot ? Sound like a stupid try to make the modders rage 0.o
"Drive me closer! I want to hit them with my sword!"
User avatar
Atlas
Moderator
Posts: 2089
Joined: Sun 02 Feb, 2014 5:23 pm
Location: Tarpon Springs, FL

Re: The Puritan and the Radical...new heroes for OM

Postby Atlas » Mon 02 Jul, 2018 1:38 am

SarDauk wrote:Why did the devs lock the number of race slot ? Sound like a stupid try to make the modders rage 0.o


You answered your own question there.
Atlas: Minister of Common Sense, Reasoning and Similar Sh*t
User avatar
SarDauk
Level 1
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu 17 May, 2018 6:27 pm

Re: The Puritan and the Radical...new heroes for OM

Postby SarDauk » Sun 15 Jul, 2018 1:10 pm

boss wrote:There was already ideas for new gk hero's just we don't have anyone to make them atm, the brother captain was to be a frontline support hero but since interceptors were moved to t3 gk don't have any real counter to setup teams no more so bc was made to do this, psychic lash aka fleshhook and nemesis vortex was to counter them is very dumb should have interceptors back in t1 and old bc.

However always like to hear new gk hero ideas there not bad tbh but like I said no one can mod new hero's atm so :(


a little bit late but I'm curious, what is/was the OM hero's planned ?
"Drive me closer! I want to hit them with my sword!"
User avatar
Ayy Eye
Level 2
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed 28 Mar, 2018 5:21 pm
Location: Britbong Land

Re: The Puritan and the Radical...new heroes for OM

Postby Ayy Eye » Sun 15 Jul, 2018 2:23 pm

An assassin and a demon Hunter inquisitor
I'm a girrrrlllll gamer.
User avatar
SarDauk
Level 1
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu 17 May, 2018 6:27 pm

Re: The Puritan and the Radical...new heroes for OM

Postby SarDauk » Sun 15 Jul, 2018 2:26 pm

Ayy Eye wrote:An assassin and a demon Hunter inquisitor


I'm not an expert in modding, but for the assassin it wasn't possible to use the vindicator assassin model ?
"Drive me closer! I want to hit them with my sword!"
User avatar
Black Relic
Level 4
Posts: 798
Joined: Mon 29 Jul, 2013 3:05 am
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: The Puritan and the Radical...new heroes for OM

Postby Black Relic » Sun 15 Jul, 2018 2:53 pm

If i remember someone was making an eversor assassin model.

It was mentioned that just adding the Inquisitor to the OM roster would fit the bill. Imo it does quite nicely.
"...With every strike of his sword, with every word of his speech, does he reaffirm the ideals of our honored master..." -From the Teachings of Roboute Guilliman as laid down in the Apocrypha of Skaros. Space Marines Codex pg. 54

Return to “Balance discussion”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests