Chaos Space Marine Topic

[Red Beard]

I would also like to query about the fact that chaos terminators have 3750HP. Why can't they start off with 4500HP like the Regular Space Marine Terminators? I know they get more Hp when u give them the claws but in my opinion they should start off with 4500HP like the other terminators.

[Ace of Swords]

They cost less, have a better ranged option and claws aviable to any commander, so no.

[Red Beard]

They cost less, have a better ranged option and claws aviable to any commander, so no.

I do not understand what your point is here.

[Red Beard]

To Caeltos:

I would like to ask you if the Chaos Terminators could have the same Hp as the regular terminators(that is of the tech and apo-4500HP).In doing that I think that they should cost the same req as the regular terminators-that is 650 req.

[Kvek]

Chaos Terminators can be better supported, Have better upgrades, have lower cost.

If you can't understand what Ace said you must be a dumbass

[Caeltos]

There's no need for name-calling.

[Nurland]

Indeed Chaos Termies are more versatile upgrade wise (have melee and ranged upgrade on the same Termie type) and have a lower cost. Also they probably want to avoid Gayos units just being Sphess Mahreens with different skins.

I personally wouldn't mind 4500hp Choas Termies as I main Kayossss but I do understand why they are at their current state.

[dance commander]

Chaos Terminators can be better supported, Have better upgrades, have lower cost.

If you can't understand what Ace said you must be a dumbass

Every time I see you post I wonder why no one has banned you yet.

You are always plain rude, you don't bring anything to the discussion, and never support your opinions, you latch to other peoples' opinions to legitimate your statements.

On topic, while the discussion for wich type of termie can be supported better (chaos ones being limited by the commander type, the best being the sorc, loyalist ones having better support, but heavier investments related in the form of the librarian, or if the game carries for very long, land raider) is up to debate, I don't feel standarizing both termies would make for an interesting design, also I feel they fit chaos better as they are, since chaos tends to float energy in the late game while being continuosly req starved, having less taxing termies in terms of req, at the expense of surviability, means playing more carefully with them, penalty more dead times in traveling between base and battlefield, and more bleed.

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

Apart of the lower cost/reinforce cost, there are three important reasons for his lower health.

1. The synergy with any Workship (specially with the Tzeentch one)

2. The versatility of the squad, to convert them into a meat chopper squad with Lighting Claws or an anti-all ranged squad with the autocannon, effective against all. (and in the new 2.2 patch is going to receive a indirect buff the the change of autocannon damage to 1.0 from 0.75 against commanders).

3. The Demoralize effect, which increases the damage they do against the demoralized squads and receive less damage from the demoralized squads, which increases his survival. On this way, the Demoralize effect makes the Chaos Terminators squad a more independent squad than loyal Terminators, which is in consonance with the Chaos army design and spirit.

[Codex]

"You are always plain rude, you don't bring anything to the discussion, and never support your opinions, you latch to other peoples' opinions to legitimate your statements."

Kvek, I have to say I agree with most of that statement. Forgive me for backseat moderating, but if you're going to discuss balance can we just keep it civil and make it about arguments and debate rather than flaming?

[Kvek]

Sorry Beard my reaction was stupid. Sorry

[Red Beard]

No problem Kvek

[Maestro Cretella]

FYI Sorc Warp global still occasionally bugs out and does nothing.

[JuhwannX]

I don't remember if it was mentioned earlier in the topic, but Sigil of the rift is apparently the most OP sorc ability, due to it being able to catch retreating units, and then send them into melee swarms and die. IDK if that's something that everyone's found, but I thought I'd mention it from what I was reading on Crazyman's stream last night.

[Red Beard]

Since when could sigil of the rift catch retreating units too?
I though that only units who are not retreating are caught in it

[Kvek]

Somebody has been playing retail. Never trust those people on streams :p mostly retail players

[Nurland]

Yeah I think Sigil of Luls can't catch stuff on retreat anymore.

[Vapor]

Sigil can still pull in setup teams that are in the process of tearing down during retreat. At least for the first second or two after the retreat button is pressed.

[Dark Riku]

Sigil is op atm due to that bug. You can say byebye to setupteams.
Normal infantry in retreat won't get caught.
Only setupteams that are setup/desetting up while in retreat.

But I thought Thomas was already looking into that.

[Codex]

Well, if it's a bug, then there's not a balance discussion to be had.

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

I'm thinking... what about to change the Chaos Sorcerer's Daemonic Shield from the actual stationary state to something more mobile, like the Noxious Cloud?

[Torpid]

I'm thinking... what about to change the Chaos Sorcerer's Daemonic Shield from the actual stationary state to something more mobile, like the Noxious Cloud?

It's already very strong when coupled with the extra energy bonuses and honestly I think the energy buffs function better with the sorc than a moveable sheild. Also big giant moveable shields could look rather annoying lol.

[Ace of Swords]

Somehow i feel like enemy units shouldn't benefit from it, for the rest it's quite strong, maybe a litte cost decrease on that armor like 10 or 15 req and 5 power.

[Asmon]

Such big bubbles have always benefited to anyone inside. I do agree with this.

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

Please let me explain myself better.

On the paper, the Daemonic Shield it's awesome: it have a big radius of effect; the damage reduction stacks very well with Tzeentch Workshipp + Partial revelead ranged damage reduction + Tzeentch Shrine + cover; it lasts for ages (30 seconds) with a relatively short cooldown (compared with how longs the ability); can be used as deffensive buff with TCSM/Havocs/Plague Marines or as offensive buff with Raptors/Bloodletters....

But, seriously, its stationary status this ability a lot less worthwhile compared with any of the other two armours' abilities. It lasts for ages, but sometimes half of the duration of the ability is wasted. If you uses it in an agressive mode, the enemy's squads can use them, because the ability does not distinguish enemy or allied squad. If is neccesary, the enemy squad could simply walk out the Daemonic Shield and forces your squad to chase them and lose the protection of the shield.

I know that make the Daemonic shield movable (even with the Plague Cloud speed) without other change could make this ability OP.

But, what about to reduce the duration AND the cooldown of the ability, like the Chaos Dread Bloodrage ability?

For example: duration 10 seconds, cooldown 30 seconds. With this change, we can reduce the possibility to waste half of the ability's duration and usable more times. Also, with this change, the risk to be used by enemy's squads is reduced.

[Torpid]

Doesn't sound like a bad idea. However the armour got massive buffs in elite because now it provides extra energy+energy regen too, so I dunno if another buff is necessary or not.

[Asmon]

Such strong abilities with a cooldown equal or inferior to 30s are op by default.

[Torpid]

Such strong abilities with a cooldown equal or inferior to 30s are op by default.

Well no, it would depend on the energy cost that comes with them, but regardless the daemon armour already buffs energy immensely and so yeah, it would be excessive.

[Dark Riku]

Well no, it would depend on the energy cost that comes with them, ...

Chaos Sorcerer doesn't care much about energy.
Consume them tics :p

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

Plague Marines "Heal other squads on death" effect at the moment IMHO it's almost useless. In the best of cases, situational.

The "Heal other squads on death" forces you to blob you units, which usually isn't the best strategy, because in that situation are vulnerable to AOE/Artillery damage.

I suggest to revert the ELITE change, and make the "Heal on death" affect again the own Plague Marines. The heal could be reduced to a 60% of the retail value, make them obtained through a upgrade or even a passive T3 upgrade.