Ork Topic

[Darkbulborb]

Another interesting discussion might be the Mega Rumblah from the mek.

Since the "you can retreat out of it" it has become useless... just useless, you can't do anything with it now.

- It has a 5 second delay before going off (people retreat out of it when they see it, in most cases simply WALK out of it)
- IF they get caught in it, they retreat, so still nothing usefull
- Vehicles and terminators teleport out of it (units who can't retreat) so you can't catch them too
- Mekboy is very vulnerable while preparing for the rumbla (the 5 sec delay)
- it does 0 damage to anything in battle besides buildings
- It's a tier 3 item which costs 150/50 (iirc) for absolutely nothing?
- too expensive to be a genbash (late game also)

So yeah, the mega rumblah is useless now, the only thing that IS usefull might be a retreat... IF the enemy retreats...

What I suggest is either removing the delay, or make it much shorter (2 seconds?)
so that you actually have a chance of hitting someone or if you want to keep it at 5 seconds increase the range of the rumblah.

The point of the mega rumblah is to be a risky, random, possibly win factor, for the orks, which it isn't now. It's just a waste of 150/50 resources for such an awesome item.

Please let me know what you think of it ^^

Cheers!

[Asmon]

Apparently you are unaware of what MB and Orkz can do in general. Do you know that the MB can teleport? Have you ever heard about Weirdboy's Over Dere? The 5s delay is not an issue, it is what prevents the wargear from being OP. And MB has several ways to deal with it.

Second, the ability stuns vehicles. Do you know any other ability that stuns vehicles in an area for a so long duration?

Third, it still synergizes wonderfully with Rokz. Even if you can retreat out of it, you'll do it too late if Rokz are well timed.

Last but not least, it is the only ability that can destroy HQ and base turrets in a few rows.

So, it's still very powerful. It's just not a I-click I-win ability anymore.

[Darkbulborb]

as I said, vehicles can drive easily out of it, and that weirdboy's over dere didn't cancel his rumblah I didn't know. Destroying a HQ is almost never done in ranked matches and the synergy is good with roks, if units stay stunned in it. I do agree with your point that IF it hits vehicles they're stunned for a long time. But other than it almost never hitting and now not stunning infantry anymore too, I see no use for the item, while it was so awesome.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

iirc it doesn't effect your/allies' units. probably needs a reworking.

[Darkbulborb]

if the ground "rumbles" at the exact point where your units are standing it affects them, they'll fall down, otherwise not.

[Kvek]

Activate kustom field teleport in and do Rumblah it can deny caps etc. I don't play mek that often but from what i can say rumblah is a great ability

[dance commander]

Activate kustom field teleport in and do Rumblah it can deny caps etc. I don't play mek that often but from what i can say rumblah is a great ability

That's a lot of energy, would need to be at least level 6 with full energy bar to pull that off.

[Kvek]

well that's true. instead of teleport over dere then Yup a lot of resources for that. but weird will be still very useful

[Arbit]

That's the problem I have with the wargear: it requires a lot resources to buy and requires a combo to use. Just teleporting in doesn't work because 5 seconds is ample time to kill a mek standing in the middle of a hostile T3 army, plus getting knocked over stops or delays the ability (he has to be standing before any rumbling will begin). Once the rumbling starts, then you have to bring in something to do the damage. Most people will retreat infantry out if they are significantly threatened and while the vehicle stun is cool, if I'm worried about vehicles I'll probably just get the beamy deffgun, that way I don't need a 150/50 wargear plus another AV unit to actually do any damage. Rumble into roks sounds cool, but Murphy's Law dictates they will fall on your own mek and miss the enemy.

It has good combo potential but if you look at other expensive T3 wargears most of them turn your commander into a one-man death machine: FC Termie armor, Providence, Emperor's Fury (or whatever the LC arty strike accessory is called), Subjugate, the INQ armor that stuns and damages the whole screen, HT invuln, etc.

I'm not arguing for a buff or price decrease because the ability is undoubtedly powerful. As the ability is currently designed, it basically has to have a prohibitive price and drawback. I'd rather see it redesigned to something like giving him a second teleport ability that costs 60-70 energy and does a single knockback pulse in a radius of 10 or so upon arrival. And having the wargear give some HP since it's you know AN ARMOR.

[MyMe]

Another wargear that I believe should be looked at is spiky armor for the Warboss. I get the nerf to HP regen on it, because of the restoration of angry bits regen and what would be stacking regen similar to painboy+bits, but I just can't ever justify spending 25/30? power on 250 hp with an passive ability that is, well, useless. Cyborg implants is cheaper and gives a nice hp buff (only 50 less than spiky armor) with an awesome ability if you can hit with it. Not entirely sure what could be done with it, more hp might be a bit much for enemy t1 armies to handle, more regen would be broken in combo with angry bits, and a buff to it's useless passive ability would probably still not do anything. Perhaps let the armor give the Warboss a very slight splash damage on melee attacks? Maybe move it to t2 and let it enhance speed or something?

The rest of his wargear is pretty nice at the moment, loving what has been done with the enhanced custom shoota, angry bits, cybork, and trophy rack.

[Kvek]

Yeah the 3,5 regen in retail was useful but now the regen is weak and now the cyborg implants are just waaaaaaaay better.

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

The Spiky armor is great against low hp high model melee squads (heretics, hormagaunts...). These squads can even kill themselves only attacking the Warboss.

[Kvek]

Yeah but why would you attack warboss in melee if he has spiky armor ?

[Asmon]

The point is that it denies meleeing the WB.

[dance commander]

It is a pointless piece of wargear, doesn't cybork implants make going in melee against the warboss an even worse idea? PLUS it's actually more useful since the warboss isn't simply a "do not target with melee infantry" but a wall you can't surpass with your melee infantry to get to his ranged units, since the stomp range becomes so large. Let's not mention how his standard stomp already prevents that to a lesser extent.

Spiky armor needs something else, there's no reason to get it over implants, or at all.

[Dark Riku]

You need to actually time the big stomp and have energy for it.
Spiky bits work all the time.

[MyMe]

Avoiding attacking the Warboss with the only squads that would be hurt by spiky armor (heretics, sluggas, hormaguants, and banshees) is extremely easy. I can't think of a single situation where I actually needed to move my melee in to engage the Warboss when I can have my melee go elsewhere and use my ranged squads on him instead. It's easy to say that the armor denies melee from attacking him, but the only squads that would be hurt by spiky armor would never engage in a fight with the Warboss anyways, bar from the most extreme situations or the Warboss was almost dead already. And squads like ASM/Raptors or t2+ melee can simply ignore the meager damage altogether, where a big stomp will continue to be useful all throughout the game.

[Dark Riku]

Because the WB won't be standing still?
And will actually be going after your ranged squad(s) ?

[FiSH]

I'm with MyMe on this one, I'd get the cybork over spiky any day.
1. WB is not energy heavy, and usually has enough energy for the big stomp.
2. spiky armor is devastating against high-model melee squads, but big stomp is more painful, can be comboed with aimin'-wats-dat or charge, and severely messes with retreat path to allow wiping.
3. cybork implant synergizes well with the warboss melee blob (for example, very useful for nobz when fighting powerful melee units like claw termies)

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

- Cyborg Implants it's a disruption wargear, focused against all infantry but specially IMHO against high hp low model number squads. Yeah, of course, Big Stomp damages a lot low hp high model squads, but at the same time the punish for miss the Big Stomp is higher against these squads, because they usually make more damage than ASM, Raptors...

- Spiky armor it's a disuasive wargear, that makes fight against the Warboss in melee combat a ever worse idea than it is in his vanilla state. This wargear is mortal for low hp high model squads, because as i said before, they can kill themselves only attacking the Warboss. But it is a lot less useful against ASM, Raptors, KCSM...

In contrast of the Cyborg Implants, Spiky armor turns the Warboss into (even more) a constant danger to evade.

The only real issue is that maybe this armor doesn't scale as well as Cyborg Implants. In late T2 and T3, with Hormagaunts, Heretics... leveling/obtaining buffs or simply with the aparition of new melee squads, these squads could simply ignore the spiky armor damage, when the Cyborg Implants Big Stomp will have more utility, disrupting (and negating) the damage. Will also works well against Terminators, because they are too slow to dodge the Big Stomp and they get stunned by it.

But, at the same time, IMHO the 'Eavy armor overshadows both armors.

[Darkbulborb]

how about figuring out a new armor and just combine spiky armor and 'eavy armor for 250/70 trololololol,

nah, just kidding ofc. but yeah, I personally use cybork implants a lot more than spiky armor, it seems so useless since melee units won't engage the warboss...

[Lulgrim]

Dem spikez needs to be longa!

[Indrid]

it seems so useless since melee units won't engage the warboss...

Which is it's use. You don't have to worry about Banshees/Hormas putting pressure on your Warboss in T1/T2, he's free to stomp around being angry tieing up ranged squads. Stomp can be dodged by a good player especially with Banshees + Fleet. Then if you want the added durability in T3 get 'Eavy.

It's more of a niche armour than Cybork, but that doesn't mean it's UP or useless.

[PhatE]

Spikey armour has its uses. However it can be quite difficult to make use of it if there's a ton of suppression, knockback and the like which is a very common occurrence when players see the warboss. Usually there is two suppression teams which is incredibly hard to deal with particularly (sounding like a broken record) two shuriken teams but that's also to do with banshee's being the female equivalent to the flash.

It really needs to be used with angry bits for you to get the best bang for your buck to try and work around the Warboss counters. It's also a sizeable early investment and if the counters are already there it's not worth while to buy. But there's a time and place for it, although there aren't many. All they have to do is run away/use shotguns/lead you into a suppression team/Kite the Warboss, but when you do get hits in its pretty satisfying and buying will seem more worth while.

On a side note, I think stomp possibly needs a look at. He seems to get knocked back so many times when trying to do this ability it's an enormous nuisance. Maybe make him immune to knockback during the ability? It seems to be only with the warboss and at the worst times. Or at least when he special attacks the actual ability needs to be greyed out so that you aren't wasting the ability because when he goes for the regular special attack and you hit the ability in the middle of it whether it be by mistake or planned because the WB needs to gtfo of there you end up doing no damage despite the animation finishing you finish the first special attack and then proceed to smack the ground when the person attacking you is already knocked back.

[Asmon]

Actually, Lia Nelson is the female equivalent of the Flash.

And order a move command before stomping, thus you're not bothered with the special coming at the same moment. It's the same issue with any hero trying to use an ability while in melee and the WB does not deserve any special treatment.

[PhatE]

Actually, Lia Nelson is the female equivalent of the Flash....

Hahah my bad, I'll be sure to keep that in mind.

But the thing that separates him from other melee commanders is that he's an offensive melee specialist with a unique ability of disruption. The others are fortunate enough to have some characteristic that prevent them from being knocked back. Like battle cry, being the HT or CL, Warlock can get the merciless witch blade and champions robes to execute the Darth maul swing of death! Granted that still costs a lot, but regardless the risk of being knocked back is 0 until the shield wears off.

The only other commander that shares this is the inquisitor, whilst technically a melee specialist or at least her slot says she's an offensive commander. She isn't really good for fighting large battles which is why she has hammer of the witches of whatever the stun is called.

My main issue was that the WB actual ability could use some fine tuning so that it can be used effectively and not just have him be knocked back only to find it be wasted on a patch of dirt. Or the more annoying case where you have an awesome stomp lined up and his special attack takes priority over the ability causing you do deal no damage but waste it.

The actual special attack itself is fine I don't mind that he gets knocked back at all, but for an actual ability that you can trigger yourself that's meant to cause disruption misses because of banshee's/BL's or any other high melee skill unit seems a little redundant. He just seems the least consistent when it comes to melee fights but I'm not implying it so that he can't be knocked back just with the ability at hand.

It's obviously a timing issue which I've learned to try and get better at but sometimes melee squads just do them so fast it takes that extra bit of concentration that takes away from battles which other offensive commanders don't really need to worry about for the most part.

[FiSH]

it's especially frustrating because wb's windups are all lengthy so one kb means he has to go, whereas other commanders can *click* and become immune to kb instantly.

[caralimon]

Hey guys, i'm new here but i think I have a good suggestion to make.

I was astonished when I saw the Wartruk upgrade Reinforced Plating stay at the same price than in retail, that is 100 req/30 power.

The facts: Wartruk cost was increased to 220/30. It has 350 HP and a piss poor 17DPS bolter on top of it (but that's ok cos we don't buy nor use the wartruk for its damage right?).

Reinforced Plating upgrade gives it 200 HP more, that is a 57% HP increase. So, for 45% in req (100 of 220) and a whopping 100% power of a shiny new wartruk we give our already on the field wartruk a 57% increase in HP, no DPS increase, nothing else at all.

What gives? Who in this world would be silly enough to spend that kind of resources in upgrading his already low hp Wartruk, when for just 120 req more you can just order another one?

Unupgraded Wartruk: 220/30 req/power, 350 HP, 17 DPS.
Upgraded Wartruk: 320/60 req/power 550 HP, 17 DPS.

So my suggestion is to simply lower the cost of the Reinforced Plating upgrade to 100/15 or something like that. You could increase its requision cost a bit if you wish, but for the love of god decrease that power cost .

Since i'm new here i might have missed a previous discussion on the topic or the rationale behind its price, if so please do point me in the right direction, cos i'm scratching my head here.

[Nurland]

Well I think RB extra armor costs the same and gives 200hp. RB does have more dps but it is more expensive to begin with and trukk is faster and can carry more squads iirc.

[Torpid]

Well the reason why you wouldn't just buy another one is because then that would die, and then you would have to buy another, and then that would die...

Instead you want to be able to have a wartrukk on the field at the same time that your opponent has AV without the trukk dying so you buy the armour. The cost is fine as it is, and it's not always a necessary purchase anyway, just like RB armour.