2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
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2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Postby Atlas » Sat 22 Jul, 2017 2:27 am

So here's what we're going into testing with. There's a lot of changes in here and while not every one of them is going to make it, we think a majority will. But yeah, here!

The Bug Fixes section is worded strangely, but those are the bugs that we will attempt to fix during the test.
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General
Hero revival gain upon resurrection decreased from 250 to 175.

Gameplay
All Sentinel and Ranged Non-Walker Vehicle Melee Skill values are now increased to 100.

Bug Fixes
LC Flare global doesn’t affect PDevs or Blastmasters or D-Cannons.
Knob trippa shot can stun Sents.
Knob Kaboom knocks back Dreads and the Swarmlord.
Knob Mega Boom Kit still only 100/20, but should be 130/25.
Apothecary Purification Rites no longer goes off at the last unit it hits when the apo levels up anywhere on the map.
Nurgle Predator DoT no longer does friendly fire.
Lc Executes still bugs out from time to time.
Scout shotguns sometimes don’t knockback or refuse to even do the blast but energy gets used nonetheless.
LttE still pops randomly on squads you used it earlier
Fix bug with sorcerer when he doesn't fire 6 doombots when he has the energy.
IST Sergeant now has a grenade decorator.
IST Overcharge Plasma no longer suppresses friendly units.
GL Heretics, Plague Champion and Apothecary still have a melee charge while they possess ranged weapons.
Interceptors storm bolters now have a sfx.
Flame Sword’s ‘Coruscating flame’ ability is meant to last 15 seconds, but only lasts 10.

Chaos Space Marines

Chaos Heretics:
Cost increased from 190/0 to 200/0.
Melee damage per hit increased from 20 to 22.

Raptors:
Jump energy cost reduced from 65 to 60.

Chaos Predator:
Mark of Nurgle cost reduced from 100/40 to 100/35.
Mark of Nurgle hp increase reduced from 75% to 50%.

Eldar

Eldritch Storm:
Damage of first 12 bolts of eldritch storm reduced from 200 explosive to 100 explosive.

Warlock -
Destructor ability can no longer be cancelled.
Immolator damage reduced from 15 per second to 10 per second.
Immolator duration increased from 7 seconds to 10 seconds.
Merciless Witchblade special attack damage type changed from power melee to melee_pvp.

Farseer:
Default witchblade special attack damage increased from 25 to 28.
Spirit Stones wargear cost reduced from 120/30 to 120/25.
Spiritual Rites energy cost reduced from 80 to 70.
Summon Seer Council Global red cost reduced from 300 to 250.
Armour of Fortune hp bonus increased from 150 to 200.
Armour of the Asuryan now grants +1 hp/s in addition to its current effects.
Gravity Blade cost reduced from 120/30 to 120/25.

Dire Avengers:
Aspect of Avenger health increase increased from 20% to 33%.
Dire Avenger Exarch moved from T1 to T2.
Exarch upkeep reduced from 7.65 to 5.1.
Exarch hp increased from 250 to 275.
Exarch population cost reduced from 3 to 2.
Exarch ranged damage reduction aura increased from 20% to 25%.

Howling Banshees:
Aspect of Fleetness health increase increased from 10% to 15%.

TEST Charge Build:
Howling Banshees no longer leap into combat.
Howling Banshees now charge into combat.
Charge speed bonus reduced from 3 to 1.
Charge cooldown increased from 6 seconds to 8 seconds.

Rangers:
Long Rifle damage per hit increased from 60 to 65.
Long Rifle damage per hit increased from 65 to 75 when Pathfinder Gear is purchased.

Imperial Guard

Lord General:
Rotation rate increased from 180 to 300.
Melta gun damage increased from 30 dph to 35 dph.
Call Reinforcements energy cost down from 70 to 50.
Refractor shield energy cost down from 60 to 40.

Lord Commissar:
Xenos Power claw upgrade cost reduced from 150/50 to 130/40.

Las-turret:
Armour type changed concerning the following values:
Piercing dps - 0.2 to 0.4
Flame dps - 1 to 0.6.

Ogryn Squad:
Ogryn Bon’ead health increased from 550 to 600.

Manticore:
Storm Eagle rocket damage reduced from 180 to 170 per rocket.
Storm Eagle cooldown reduced from 70 seconds to 60 seconds.

Cadian Kasrkin Squad:
Frag Grenade damage increased from 150 to 260.
Sprint ability energy cost reduced from 50 to 40.
Sargeant hp increased from 300 to 350.

Ordo Malleus

Mind Blades:
Changed from +20% damage increase to +30% melee damage increase in addition to its normal effects.

Canticle of Absolution:
Radius increased from 30 to 45.
Cooldown reduction for nearby units increased from 400% to 500%.
Duration of ability increased from 15s to 20s.
Energy regen to allied units increased from 2.5 e/s to 4e/s.
Global cost increased from 175 to 200.

Brother-Captain:
Health increased from 850 to 900.
Brother-captain AoE special attack flight distance increased from 10 to 15. (applies to both default variant and nemesis force sword variant of the special attack)
Nemesis Force Sword non-360 special attack damage increased from 40 to 52.
Blessed Aegis conversion ratio increased from 4hp/1e to 5hp/1e.
Unending Purge now increases energy by 20 in addition to its normal effects.
Holy Armor of Titan hp regen increased from 1.5hp/s to 3hp/s.
Holy Armor of Titan cost reduced from 200/50 to 150/40.
Nemesis Force Sword dps reduced from 50 to 40.
Nemesis Warding Staff cost reduced from 150/50 to 135/40.
Enfeeble now increases energy by 20 in addition to its normal effects.
Enfeeble duration increased from 5 seconds to 7 seconds.

Inquisitorial Stormtroopers:
Fist dps increased from 3 to 6.
Plasma Guns cost increased from 80/15 to 80/20.
Grenade Launcher damage per hit increased from 40 to 53.33.
Sergeant leader population cost reduced from 2 to 1.
Acolyte leader population cost reduced from 3 to 1.
Acolyte now wields an Eviscerator and Servo Skull instead of a Laspistol and Chainsword.(Servo Skull set to do the same dps as Laspistol)
Acolyte grants the squad a 15% damage resistance aura passively.
Fanaticism no longer grants suppression resistance and 25% damage resistance.
Fanaticism now grants the squad invulnerability for 2.5 seconds.
Fanaticism energy cost set to 60 and cooldown set to 15 seconds.

Strike Squad:
Psybolt Strike Squad now passively inflicts a non-stacking debuff of duration 6 seconds on any target they shoot that inflicts an 20% accuracy reduction on their ranged weapons whilst their Justicar is present.
Whilst Nemesis Focus is purchased. the Strike Squad Justicar grants the squad +15% squad hp.
Energy burst ability duration increased from 4 seconds to 6 seconds.

Inquisitorial Operatives:
Operative shotguns now get a 25% boost to their ranged damage for 6 seconds after they come out of full infiltration. (no fist or melta extra damage)

Fist dps increased from 2 dps to 8 dps.
Squad now starts with the Infiltrate ability.
Fallback Plan no longer grants the Infiltrate ability.
Squad no longer has the Stun Grenade ability.
Squad now starts with the Blind Grenade ability.

Blind Grenade -
“Blinds all enemy infantry in a radius 4.5, reducing sight radius and weapon range of units affected by 75% for 10 seconds. Has the same effect on turrets. Range 32, cooldown 40 seconds.”
Energy cost set to 40.

Fallback Plan health regeneration rate increased from 3 hp/s per model for 10 seconds to 6 hp/s per model for 10 seconds.
Fallback Plan upgrade now grants the Smoke Grenade ability.

Smoke Grenade -
“Throws a smoke grenade that covers a radius 10 area for 10 seconds, reducing received ranged damage by 50% and lowering received suppression by 100%. Range 30, cooldown 20 seconds.”
Energy cost set to 40.

Sergeant hp increased from 180 to 250.
Sergeant dps increased from 12.94 to 16.
Sergeant upgrade now removes the energy cost of infiltrate. No energy regen whilst infiltrated.

Purgation Squad:
Rending ability changed from granting a bonus to damage vs vehicles to changing Psilencer damage type to anti_vehicle_pvp for the duration of its effect.
Rending ability now lowers the damage of the squad by 50% for the duration of its effect in addition to its normal effects.
Psilencers setup/teardown times now matches SM Lascannon times.
Psilencers upgrade is now mutually exclusive with the Conversion Beamer upgrade.

Psilencer damage increased from 18.4dps to 23dps.

Squad now has the Conversion Beamer upgrade.

Conversion Beamer -
"Equip one member of the squad with a Conversion Beamer, effective against vehicles. Attacks on vehicles or monstrous creatures reduce their speed by 50% for 5 seconds."
Conversion Beamer weapon has stats identical to the SM Lascannon.
Upgrade lowers model hp from 330 to 225.
Squad members not equipped with the Beamer now wield Wrist-mounted Storm Bolters and Nemesis Force Halberds.
Cost set at 75/0. Unlocks at T2. Upgrade is mutually exclusive with the Psilencers upgrade.

Purifiers:
Justicar health increased from 550 to 650.
Justicar hp regen decreased from 2 to 0.5.
While in battle, squad hp regen now increases by 1 hp/s. (from 0.5 to 1.5 hp/s) Passive ability.
Member weapon changed from Power Swords to Nemesis Force Hammers. Damage type changed from power_melee_pvp to heavy_melee_pvp.
Member dph increased from 45 to 74. (34.62dps to 37dps)

Terminator Librarian:
Force Sword dps increased from 55 to 65.
Liber Daemonica health increase increased from 100 to 150.

Vindicare Assassin:
Sight range increased from 45 to 50.
Turbo Penetrator cooldown reduced from 5 seconds to 3seconds. (16.25 dps to 21.67 dps)
Equip Exitus/Turbo Penetrator Rounds ability no longer slows the Vindicare Assassin while switching.

Rhino:
Lascannon damage per hit increased from 85 to 100.
Lascannon upgrade cost reduced from 75/15 to 75/0.

Grey Knight Dreadnought:
Walker no longer starts with a Hurricane Bolter.
Walker now starts with an Inferno Flamer and the Maelstrom ability.
Inferno Flamer courage damage reduced from 50 to 30.
Inferno Flamer damage reduced from 25 to 20.
Inferno Flamer weapon AoE radius reduced from 7 to 5.
Walker now has the Multi-Melta upgrade.
Multi-Melta upgrade swaps the Inferno Flamer with a Multi-Melta, effective against all targets but with limited range. Removes the Maelstrom ability. (190 dph melta, 54.29 dps)
Nemesis Claw upgrade now removes the Maelstrom ability in addition to its normal effects.
Plasma Cannon upgrade now removes the Maelstrom ability in addition to its normal effects.
Plasma Cannon loadout changed from a Nemesis Fist and Plasma Cannon to a Hurricane Bolter and Plasma Cannon. (can be interrupted in melee)

Orks

Globals
UYC cost increased from 75 red to 100 red.

Warboss -
Hp reduced from 920 to 900.
Bang Bang Hammer damage reduced from 150 to 120 (dps from 75 to 60).
Bang Bang Hammer Swing special attack damage reduced from 90 to 55.
Bang Bang Hammer cost reduced from 125/25 to 120/20.
Boss Pole no longer grants +10% hp to the Warboss.
Now I’m Angry speed bonus reduced from 1.5 to 1 at the end of his charge.
Now I’m Angry hp regeneration bonus reduced from 7.5hp/s to 5hp/s at the end of his charge.
Now I’m Angry melee damage bonus reduced from 35% to 30% at the end of his charge.
Big Stomp ability cooldown reduced from 30 to 25.
Big Stomp ability now has the same animation length as the normal Stomp.
‘Eavy Armour now grants +1.5 hp/s in addition to its other effects.

Looted Tank:
Boomgun ability now requires the Reinforced Plating upgrade.
Looted Tank sponson shootas courage damage reduced from 15 to 0.
Looted Tank main cannon courage damage reduced from 10 to 0.
Looted Tank main cannon splash range reduced from 7 to 5. (modifiers match the same ratios)

Flash Gitz:
Squad cost reduced from 425/60 to 425/50.
Gitfindas cost reduced from 65/20 to 65/15.
Population cost reduced from 6 to 5. (Squad from 18 to 15)
Reinforcement time reduced from 9 seconds to 6 seconds.

Battlewagon -
Main cannon rotation rate increased from 80 to 110.

Space Marines

Terminator Force Commander:
Terminator Armor upgrade cost reduced from 150/80 to 150/50.
Heavy Flamer dph increased from 20 to 30. (18 dps to 27.1 dps)
Cleansing Flame damage reduced from 25 AoE_flame_ability_pvp to 15 AoE_flame_ability_pvp.
Hp regen increased from 1.5 hp/s to 3.5 hp/s.

Apothecary:
Purification Vials area of effect duration decreased from 15 seconds to 10 seconds.

Techmarine:
High Powered Shot cooldown reduced from 40 seconds to 35 seconds.
Signum Armour no longer gives a range increase to the TMs weapons whilst equipped.
Meltagun range increased from 22 to 30.
Meltagun cost increased from 100/25 to 120/30.
Axe of the Mechanicum dph increased from 100 to 110.

Sternguard Veterans:
Bolter_Vengeance damage type damage modifier towards vehicles increased from 0.4 to 0.7.

Tyranids

Lictor Alpha:
Stalk global cost increased from 50 to 75.
Stalk now increases the Lictor Alpha’s speed by 1 for the duration of its effect.
Toxin Miasma cost increased from 100/20 to 100/25.
Corrosive Claws cost increased from 110/25 to 120/30.

Ravener Alpha:
Ravener Alpha Tunnel cooldown increased from 90 seconds to 100 seconds.
Tunnel hp reduced from 175 to 125.
Tunnel experience yield increased from 50 to 100.
Hive Node build time increased from 2 seconds to 5 seconds.
Burrow Traps build time increased from 3 seconds to 5 seconds.
Burrow traps now slow vehicles by 70% for 10 seconds rather than stunning vehicles for 10 seconds.
Acid Splatter splash damage reduced from 20 to 15.
Acid Splatter splash radius reduced from a radius 5 circle to angle left 90, angle right 90, radius 5 circle.
Acid Splatter main damage per hit increased from 85 to 100.

Hormagaunt Brood:
Adrenal Glands upgrade cost increased from 50/15 to 75/15.

Termagant Brood:
Devourer dph increased from 8.8 to 9.8. (~3.6 to ~3.9 dps)
Toxin Sac damage increase reduced from 45% to 30%.

Endless Swarm:
Cost reduced from 60/15 to 50/15.
Build time reduced from 40 seconds to 30 seconds.
Endless Swarm no longer adds two models to the squad.
Endless Swarm now increases squad member hp by 10% in addition to its normal effects.

Spore Mines:
Spore_pvp damage multiplier values have been changed as followed:
Damage vs building from 1 to 5.
Damage vs building_light from 1 to 2.
Damage vs building_defence from 1 to 5.
Damage vs building_ig_turret from 1 to 5.
Damage vs commander from 1 to 1.5.
Damage vs heavy_infantry from 1 to 1.5.
Damage vs super_heavy_infantry from 1 to 1.5.
Damage vs garrison from 1 to 1.25.

Warrior Brood:
Health increased from 330 to 340. (Squad from 990 to 1020)
Electroshock Grubs now have a 3 second timer before effects activate on enemy vehicles.
(Make sure to add a leash in for Grubs much like ASM for example)
Electroshock Grubs weapon disable duration reduced from 4 seconds to 2 seconds.

Venom Brood:
Health increased from 330 to 340. (Squad from 990 to 1020)
Reinforcement time reduced from 8 seconds to 6 seconds.

Genestealer Brood:
Rending Claw upgrade moved from T2 to T3.

Lictor (T3):
Pop reduced from 10 to 5.
Speed increased from 5.5 to 6.
Now captures points 50% faster.

Carnifex:
Population reduced from 20 to 18.
Thornback health increase increased from 300 from 400. (1650 to 1750)
Barbed Strangler cost increased from 100/40 to 150/40.
Spore Cysts Hotkey changed from W to Q.
Venom Cannon now has a 5 range leash on its range weapon.

Swarmlord:
Reinforcement aura radius increased from 30 to 40.
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Re: 2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Postby Psycho » Sat 22 Jul, 2017 2:44 am

Atlas wrote:Howling Banshees no longer leap into combat.
Howling Banshees now charge into combat.

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Re: 2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Postby Torpid » Sat 22 Jul, 2017 9:32 am

Gosh, this is a small changelog. Not sure this will even encroach upon the vast plethora of balance issues in the game guys. Why have you not addressed more issues???
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Re: 2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Postby Crewfinity » Sat 22 Jul, 2017 3:01 pm

....does this mean we're not making electroshock mutually exclusive with barbed strangler?
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Re: 2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Postby Flash » Sat 22 Jul, 2017 5:26 pm

What's the ranged leash?

usual caveat about 3v3 perspective

On warboss changes, I don't think angry bitz needed anymore nerfs? It looks like the intent is to make the warboss less invincible during the charge and add the sustainability after it's been completed? It is one way to deal with ranged blobs and notably suppression in t1, where the other option is stormboyz which are ungodly brittle in t1.

Likewise I'm not sure the buffs to heavy armor and big stomp are warranted either. Bringing the animation of big stomp in line with normal should make it faster right? I think that there would be a bad idea. Cybork implants is criminally under rated as it is and shuts down all melee and jump troop usage against it if you keep your warboss with your ranged units. Cooldown reduced, ehh whatever. Again not necessary, 2x per min is fine as it is. The health regen to heavy army is nice and I wouldn't complain over much, but not sure it's needed. Rationale for it?
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Re: 2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Postby Element » Sat 22 Jul, 2017 5:56 pm

I'm just curious more so than anything, but has the testing team already looked into what would haopen if interceptors were placed into T2 rather than t3 (with some adjustments)? thank- you in advance.
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Re: 2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Postby Torpid » Sat 22 Jul, 2017 6:10 pm

Flash wrote:What's the ranged leash?

usual caveat about 3v3 perspective

On warboss changes, I don't think angry bitz needed anymore nerfs? It looks like the intent is to make the warboss less invincible during the charge and add the sustainability after it's been completed? It is one way to deal with ranged blobs and notably suppression in t1, where the other option is stormboyz which are ungodly brittle in t1.

Likewise I'm not sure the buffs to heavy armor and big stomp are warranted either. Bringing the animation of big stomp in line with normal should make it faster right? I think that there would be a bad idea. Cybork implants is criminally under rated as it is and shuts down all melee and jump troop usage against it if you keep your warboss with your ranged units. Cooldown reduced, ehh whatever. Again not necessary, 2x per min is fine as it is. The health regen to heavy army is nice and I wouldn't complain over much, but not sure it's needed. Rationale for it?


Actually there is a third and better way to deal with ranged blobs+suppression. It's called dual fully upgraded shootas+a boss pole warboss =D Works wonders, I promise. People -need- to start using it more. I was considering making it 20 power again just because nobody uses it but after extensive testing NO WAY. That thing is perfectly legit at 25 power. It's amazing.

Angry bitz actually is more of a melee counter. Or good vs stuff like SM where they don't have high ranged dps to start with and are not gonna go double devs. So you just have one SUT to counter.

Regarding the cybork Personally I find the fact that it takes longer to use the big stomp than the ordinary one very mind-boggling. It can lead to a dead warboss. Makes it harder to use on retreat. I mean, you are paying a lot for this upgraded stomp, that isn't even an upgrde really since it takes so long xD Sure a stun is nice and more damage+kb, but not if you cannot execute it half the time when you could the ordinary one. Since it grants no hp regen it pales epically in comparison to spiky when you ignore the 'better' stomp.

I think the 'eavy armor change is very warranted and late tbh. Very few people bother with it given the huge price and the fact that as you end up with a larger hp pool if you have no regen you are going to have to retreat far more often than someone with less hp but more regen. It makes no sense for all these highly expensive T3 armors to not grant hp regen. I think it is the main reason we see such armors so rarely.

Element wrote:I'm just curious more so than anything, but has the testing team already looked into what would haopen if interceptors were placed into T2 rather than t3 (with some adjustments)? thank- you in advance.


In the current meta it would mean that OM would have no capacity to kill tanks, but perhaps the purgation-beamer variant will change that. We will see how effective the beamer actually is in the context of OM compositions and then from that we can consider altering interceptors' role.
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Re: 2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Postby Psycho » Sat 22 Jul, 2017 6:25 pm

I'd maybe consider getting the commissar klaw if it was at 35 power. Power sword does well enough vs I and HI, and without an ability to go with it the only times I see it as useful is vs vehicles (and even then just barely, the only vehicles that would get close enough are walkers that can mop the floor with him), though if you need AV so desperately that you consider sending the commissar against it, you're just going to get something else and save the weapon slot for the fist coming in T3 that can provide some benefit even if it's not up against vehicles. The klaw just locks you out of the fist in practice since why would you spend an additional 50 power for the ability on top of the weapon? Might as well get the sword as stop-gap measure that can buff the army around you, gives specials on demands, and buffs your speed.
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Re: 2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Postby Element » Sat 22 Jul, 2017 7:08 pm

In the current meta it would mean that OM would have no capacity to kill tanks, but perhaps the purgation-beamer variant will change that. We will see how effective the beamer actually is in the context of OM compositions and then from that we can consider altering interceptors' role.


Hmm...I understand the predicament of g.k. having a.v. troubles right now but I was talking about interceptors being productive in a sense of being used during the phase of the game where intercepting units would be most effective rather than always having to choose purifiers to run into ranged blobs/set- up teams. Has this matter been considered yet.

Also having been playing S.M. quite alot as of late I have taken notice Scouts have 420 h.p. in comparison to the closest unit of similiar role with 500 hp. Is there a reason for this vast gap in h.p.? It's certainly quite noticeable in 1v1 encounters with squads of similiar role types. They just can't seem to contest other factions when it comes to capping given their already low DPS output but h.p. deficits does not help Perhaps giving the squad a 4th model having the squad brought to 500 h.p. with 125 h.p. a model would help there durability in the early tiers while giving them a slight d.p.s buff due to the extra model bringing them to a balanced 5 model unit when upgraded with a sergeant?
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Re: 2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Postby Kvn » Sat 22 Jul, 2017 8:22 pm

Element wrote:Also having been playing S.M. quite alot as of late I have taken notice Scouts have 420 h.p. in comparison to the closest unit of similiar role with 500 hp. Is there a reason for this vast gap in h.p.? It's certainly quite noticeable in 1v1 encounters with squads of similiar role types. They just can't seem to contest other factions when it comes to capping given their already low DPS output but h.p. deficits does not help Perhaps giving the squad a 4th model having the squad brought to 500 h.p. with 125 h.p. a model would help there durability in the early tiers while giving them a slight d.p.s buff due to the extra model bringing them to a balanced 5 model unit when upgraded with a sergeant?


Scouts are not meant for a combat role out of the gate. They're an adaptable unit with quite a few upgrades that each help them out a lot in the combat department. Vanilla Scouts are mostly a repair support/scouting/map control unit with some light fire support. Shotguns and snipers let them perform better offensively (with the former providing a cc ability in the Shotgun Blast), the Sarge gives them some added durability as well as detection and a grenade (and another shotgun if they picked those up), while the Elite Training gives them both infiltration and some pretty insane hp regen making them an excellent skirmisher. Mixing the training and the Sarge upgrades, and their passive melee resistance to an extent, makes them surprisingly hard to kill so long as you are conscious of them.

Keep in mind that giving them five models would make for massive damage spikes with those shotgun ambushes. You'd be getting quite a bit more firepower for the same price tag.
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Re: 2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Postby Psycho » Sat 22 Jul, 2017 8:41 pm

Scouts are fine as they are, though I'd sooner look into the price of the sergeants if durability is the issue.
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Re: 2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Postby Atlas » Sat 22 Jul, 2017 10:23 pm

Corrected some grammar here and there in the changelog.
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Re: 2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Postby Flash » Sat 22 Jul, 2017 10:26 pm

Torpid wrote:
Flash wrote:What's the ranged leash?

usual caveat about 3v3 perspective

On warboss changes, I don't think angry bitz needed anymore nerfs? It looks like the intent is to make the warboss less invincible during the charge and add the sustainability after it's been completed? It is one way to deal with ranged blobs and notably suppression in t1, where the other option is stormboyz which are ungodly brittle in t1.

Likewise I'm not sure the buffs to heavy armor and big stomp are warranted either. Bringing the animation of big stomp in line with normal should make it faster right? I think that there would be a bad idea. Cybork implants is criminally under rated as it is and shuts down all melee and jump troop usage against it if you keep your warboss with your ranged units. Cooldown reduced, ehh whatever. Again not necessary, 2x per min is fine as it is. The health regen to heavy army is nice and I wouldn't complain over much, but not sure it's needed. Rationale for it?


Actually there is a third and better way to deal with ranged blobs+suppression. It's called dual fully upgraded shootas+a boss pole warboss =D Works wonders, I promise. People -need- to start using it more. I was considering making it 20 power again just because nobody uses it but after extensive testing NO WAY. That thing is perfectly legit at 25 power. It's amazing.

Angry bitz actually is more of a melee counter. Or good vs stuff like SM where they don't have high ranged dps to start with and are not gonna go double devs. So you just have one SUT to counter.

Regarding the cybork Personally I find the fact that it takes longer to use the big stomp than the ordinary one very mind-boggling. It can lead to a dead warboss. Makes it harder to use on retreat. I mean, you are paying a lot for this upgraded stomp, that isn't even an upgrde really since it takes so long xD Sure a stun is nice and more damage+kb, but not if you cannot execute it half the time when you could the ordinary one. Since it grants no hp regen it pales epically in comparison to spiky when you ignore the 'better' stomp.

I think the 'eavy armor change is very warranted and late tbh. Very few people bother with it given the huge price and the fact that as you end up with a larger hp pool if you have no regen you are going to have to retreat far more often than someone with less hp but more regen. It makes no sense for all these highly expensive T3 armors to not grant hp regen. I think it is the main reason we see such armors so rarely.

Element wrote:I'm just curious more so than anything, but has the testing team already looked into what would haopen if interceptors were placed into T2 rather than t3 (with some adjustments)? thank- you in advance.


In the current meta it would mean that OM would have no capacity to kill tanks, but perhaps the purgation-beamer variant will change that. We will see how effective the beamer actually is in the context of OM compositions and then from that we can consider altering interceptors' role.




I've done double shootas with upgrades and bosspole. It's just boring and I like to try new things XD. Which isn't a reason to prevent nerfs to angry bitz mind you.

on the big stomp. I don't seem to have a problem landing it, but maybe I'm better practiced with the timing? My concern is more with the counterplay against it and shortening the window to dodge it. Radius is already decent. If you've thought of that then go ahead.

On 'eavy armor. Hmm if I can afford it in 3v3 I usually get it for the capping potential. it's usually prevalent in 3v3, so interesting that it's not in 1v1. I'm not gonna complain very hard lol.
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Re: 2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Postby Torpid » Sun 23 Jul, 2017 5:39 pm

Flash wrote:
I've done double shootas with upgrades and bosspole. It's just boring and I like to try new things XD. Which isn't a reason to prevent nerfs to angry bitz mind you.

on the big stomp. I don't seem to have a problem landing it, but maybe I'm better practiced with the timing? My concern is more with the counterplay against it and shortening the window to dodge it. Radius is already decent. If you've thought of that then go ahead.

On 'eavy armor. Hmm if I can afford it in 3v3 I usually get it for the capping potential. it's usually prevalent in 3v3, so interesting that it's not in 1v1. I'm not gonna complain very hard lol.


It isn't that I miss with it as such. In standard engagements the bigger stomp radius makes up for the time spent channelling it up so that balances out. The problem is often you will just die before it actually triggers. I'd trade the radius for a faster stomp. That might in fact be a better way of going about it. Leaving damage, flight distance and the stun untouched.

Well that's it, for capping potential yeah on a VP due to the max hp it works. But that is not worth it in 1v1 where you having regen is better to stay on one side of the map constantly and require numerous squads to force off.
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Re: 2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Postby egewithin » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 8:41 am

Eldritch Storm:
Damage of first 12 bolts of eldritch storm reduced from 200 explosive to 100 explosive.


Isn't this overkill? Eldritch is already very hard to target to make it effective. If you think the middle bolts are OP, you can rework it like you did for Rocks. Nerf the OP bir bolts and buff the rest of bolts. And to be fair, bolts apartfrom the middle are useless currently, no one cares about them.

Grenade Launcher damage per hit increased from 40 to 53.33.


2 ISQ squads will be too powerful against ranged blobs like Guardsmen, termigants or even shootaz. 2 heretic GL is already painful enough for them to deal with (tic GL does 40 dph) and now IST has oner 25% buff? And why are hey getting ths buff even?

Strike Squad


So, you are just ignoring the fact that SS ranged damage is currently OP? I toughed I explained it good enough at my own topic but I guess team doesn't give a single fuck about players are not 1st generation here.

Fine, I am banning GK from any of my games. Had enough of their bullshit.

Rhino:Lascannon damage per hit increased from 85 to 100.
Lascannon upgrade cost reduced from 75/15 to 75/0.


I really don't want to argue with this. Even there isn't a single person on earth that can explain why Rhino has lascannon upgrade, you still keep it and worse, you buff that thing?

And don't come to me with '' GK has no AV '' because they have more than any other race. Let me tell you a no branier T1 build.

IST + 2 SS + Purgation

Lets get into T2 and get one more unit, like Vindicare or that lame Predator in T2. Get your upgrades on all of your squads. 2 SS Psycannon, Purgation weapon, and let me say, Lascannon on Rhino.

You have 4 AV options! 4 fucking AV options! What more do you want? Everyone apart from your starting IST has an AV weapon already, your ARMY is made of AV at this stage.

The only thing that GK suffers is the HARD av to kill a Baneblade. Current weapons are working like long range weak melta guns, no burst, only constant damage. I would replace that meltagun upgrade with a lascannon upgrade on Dreadnought, just like MoT Dread. Makes way mıre sence than LasRhino.
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Re: 2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Postby Shroom » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 8:55 am

egewithin wrote:
Eldritch Storm:
Damage of first 12 bolts of eldritch storm reduced from 200 explosive to 100 explosive.


Isn't this overkill? Eldritch is already very hard to target to make it effective. If you think the middle bolts are OP, you can rework it like you did for Rocks. Nerf the OP bir bolts and buff the rest of bolts. And to be fair, bolts apartfrom the middle are useless currently, no one cares about them.


anything except for superunits caught in the middle of an eldritch storm are 99% dead, with this change theyll only be 90% dead.
ive lost vehicles to the side bolts on the peripheral edges of the storm, and 200 explosive damage closer to the middle of the storm is far from useless.
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Re: 2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Postby boss » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 4:51 pm

Psycho wrote:Scouts are fine as they are, though I'd sooner look into the price of the sergeants if durability is the issue.



I did ask for the sergeants price to go down by 5 but people told me to fuck of so yea :(
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Re: 2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Postby Torpid » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 5:30 pm

egewithin wrote:
Eldritch Storm:
Damage of first 12 bolts of eldritch storm reduced from 200 explosive to 100 explosive.


Isn't this overkill? Eldritch is already very hard to target to make it effective. If you think the middle bolts are OP, you can rework it like you did for Rocks. Nerf the OP bir bolts and buff the rest of bolts. And to be fair, bolts apartfrom the middle are useless currently, no one cares about them.


The first 12 bolts is pretty much only the ones in the centre in the first place. It shoots off 27 bolts in total. The problem with those centre ones is that you get hit by a few of them. Which absolutely decimates infantry and of course does A LOT to vehicles too.

I also think eldritch is one of the easier nukes to target given that it actually hits where you aim it to do so unlike roks/tyrannoformation. Yet has so much more wipe potential than OB/Abyss.

egewithin wrote:
Grenade Launcher damage per hit increased from 40 to 53.33.


2 ISQ squads will be too powerful against ranged blobs like Guardsmen, termigants or even shootaz. 2 heretic GL is already painful enough for them to deal with (tic GL does 40 dph) and now IST has oner 25% buff? And why are hey getting ths buff even?


Not really as this will only standardise them to be on par with GL tics in terms of grenade damage. Tics have 4 GLs. IST have 3. Also the heretic autoguns end up doing about double the piercing dps that the remaining two IST lasguns do. Atm pretty much nobody gets GL IST. They're just not worth it. So this standardises them more with the GL tics.

Strike Squad


So, you are just ignoring the fact that SS ranged damage is currently OP? I toughed I explained it good enough at my own topic but I guess team doesn't give a single fuck about players are not 1st generation here.

Fine, I am banning GK from any of my games. Had enough of their bullshit.

It isn't. The OP trait of psybolts Strike Squad is the fact that their range attacks snare all units. This will no longer exist and thus psybolts SS will be very vulnerable, like tacs, to melee squads and devastator squads. They cost just as much req as tacs but 15 power extra which is why they have higher dps.

Do explain what would be so OP about these strike squads in comparison to tacs given that they have no proper AV scaling or anti-HI?

Furthermore their existence as a 'tac' option is necessary for OM to be competitive in the OM vs IG and OM vs eldar matchups.
egewithin wrote:
Rhino:Lascannon damage per hit increased from 85 to 100.
Lascannon upgrade cost reduced from 75/15 to 75/0.


I really don't want to argue with this. Even there isn't a single person on earth that can explain why Rhino has lascannon upgrade, you still keep it and worse, you buff that thing?

And don't come to me with '' GK has no AV '' because they have more than any other race. Let me tell you a no branier T1 build.

IST + 2 SS + Purgation

Lets get into T2 and get one more unit, like Vindicare or that lame Predator in T2. Get your upgrades on all of your squads. 2 SS Psycannon, Purgation weapon, and let me say, Lascannon on Rhino.

You have 4 AV options! 4 fucking AV options! What more do you want? Everyone apart from your starting IST has an AV weapon already, your ARMY is made of AV at this stage.


Wow. 4 AV options that are countered by one jump squad! Ain't that something? Your described build has literally 0 melee control. So good-luck using that AV vs a melee walker that is supported by remotely any melee squads.

You're also going to struggle vs set-up teams since all you have is basic ranged squads that you can a-move. But I guess in a brain-dead 3v3 match that's all one needs.

On the rhino itself, well it is useless right now. Shoots too slow to be worth the cost for the damage it does. Much like the vindicare in fact. You simply get overwhelmed by melee things, or just cannot push at all since most opponents will have superior T2 ranged armies than you.
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Re: 2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Postby Torpid » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 5:33 pm

boss wrote:
Psycho wrote:Scouts are fine as they are, though I'd sooner look into the price of the sergeants if durability is the issue.



I did ask for the sergeants price to go down by 5 but people told me to fuck of so yea :(


Flash is right in that -if- durability was an issue then it would be better to put that onto the sergeant upgrade than the default scouts.

However, scouts do not have a durability issue.
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Re: 2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Postby Venjitron » Sun 30 Jul, 2017 2:13 am

looks good i look forward to release
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Re: 2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Postby Sheitan » Fri 18 Aug, 2017 4:05 pm

ETA ?
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Re: 2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Postby evilmario5 » Sat 19 Aug, 2017 6:12 am

theirs only two thing you did not change with OM that i still want:

1:
trade the no timer and knockback for
a ist nade with a timer if not same damage as scout/avenger nades then half the damage then.

please tell me what you can kill with 50-60 average heath damage nade.(i testing the damage vs ist/ ist sargent/SS)

2:why sargent upgrade no detection now? operatives have it, why this difference compared to the other races having detection on their t1 sargent upgrade.
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Re: 2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Postby Atlas » Sat 19 Aug, 2017 7:45 pm

Sheitan wrote:ETA ?


Most of the basic changes are done, need to put together the more extensive om stuff. I really can't say but it should be fairly soon.
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Re: 2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Postby Shroom » Sat 19 Aug, 2017 11:30 pm

evilmario5 wrote:other races having detection on their t1 sargent upgrade.

eldar dont have it, have to buy rangers. tyranids dont have it, have to buy warriors. imperial guard doesnt have it, have to buy catachans.
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Re: 2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Postby Torpid » Sun 20 Aug, 2017 12:12 am

evilmario5 wrote:theirs only two thing you did not change with OM that i still want:

1:
trade the no timer and knockback for
a ist nade with a timer if not same damage as scout/avenger nades then half the damage then.

please tell me what you can kill with 50-60 average heath damage nade.(i testing the damage vs ist/ ist sargent/SS)

2:why sargent upgrade no detection now? operatives have it, why this difference compared to the other races having detection on their t1 sargent upgrade.


1.
That would be mega OP. The grenade is mostly there for utility. Knocking units into cover and soft anti-melee. Honestly the unit would be functionally fine without it even.

2. Because it would be OP. It is too easy to get. In fact you nearly always want to get it really. No reason not to eventually in T1. And operatives will end up a very nice generic purchase so it is not too much of a concern anyway.
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Re: 2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Postby evilmario5 » Mon 21 Aug, 2017 7:18 am

Torpid wrote:
1.
That would be mega OP. The grenade is mostly there for utility. Knocking units into cover and soft anti-melee. Honestly the unit would be functionally fine without it even.

2. Because it would be OP. It is too easy to get. In fact you nearly always want to get it really. No reason not to eventually in T1. And operatives will end up a very nice generic purchase so it is not too much of a concern anyway.


1. i guess double knock-back (grenade launcher into frag grenade) is better for balance then (knock-back into timer grenade) ok good points.


2. thanks for correcting my mis-information shroom, i concede any further idea of pushing for detection on ist sargent.

3. another point that other have pointed out that's not in the test build is removing the slow effect with the SS psycannons,
im 100% for removing it.

4. reducing the particle effects for both SS psycannon and Purgation psylincer would help reduce in-game lag other have also noticed that.
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Re: 2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Postby Torpid » Mon 21 Aug, 2017 3:10 pm

evilmario5 wrote:3. another point that other have pointed out that's not in the test build is removing the slow effect with the SS psycannons,
im 100% for removing it.


My apologies as I forgot to mention it in the changelog, but when the following comes in:

"Psybolt Strike Squad now passively inflicts a non-stacking debuff of duration 6 seconds on any target they shoot that inflicts an 20% accuracy reduction on their ranged weapons whilst their Justicar is present."

This is to replace the current slow-effect debuff on their shots. So all the 50/15 for psybolts in t1 will provide is the dps boost. The slow is completely removed.
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Re: 2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Postby Tex » Mon 21 Aug, 2017 5:27 pm

I'm not sure if a private questioning period is warranted or not here... but I for the life of me cannot understand even half of the changes made.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very appreciative of the mod and all of the hard work that has been put into it, and I've said this on multiple occasions. But I do feel that if something isn't broken or exploited, you probably shouldn't try to fix it until that time.

Great example here is the Mark of Nurgle tank change. For a 5 power reduction you lose 25% hp. Did this upgrade really need such a massive net nerf? I've barely ever seen these things used, let alone seen them exploited in any way. Shouldn't we wait to see if this is an actual problem before we swing the bat?

Lots of other stuff that I would like to understand motivations about as well, but I don't feel like being overly critical in public chat.
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Re: 2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Postby Adeptus Noobus » Tue 22 Aug, 2017 6:16 am

Tex wrote:I'm not sure if a private questioning period is warranted or not here... but I for the life of me cannot understand even half of the changes made.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very appreciative of the mod and all of the hard work that has been put into it, and I've said this on multiple occasions. But I do feel that if something isn't broken or exploited, you probably shouldn't try to fix it until that time.

Great example here is the Mark of Nurgle tank change. For a 5 power reduction you lose 25% hp. Did this upgrade really need such a massive net nerf? I've barely ever seen these things used, let alone seen them exploited in any way. Shouldn't we wait to see if this is an actual problem before we swing the bat?

Lots of other stuff that I would like to understand motivations about as well, but I don't feel like being overly critical in public chat.


You should check the Discord Server more :-P
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Re: 2.7.1 Test Build Changelog (only log for now)

Postby Torpid » Tue 22 Aug, 2017 3:58 pm

Tex wrote:I'm not sure if a private questioning period is warranted or not here... but I for the life of me cannot understand even half of the changes made.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very appreciative of the mod and all of the hard work that has been put into it, and I've said this on multiple occasions. But I do feel that if something isn't broken or exploited, you probably shouldn't try to fix it until that time.

Great example here is the Mark of Nurgle tank change. For a 5 power reduction you lose 25% hp. Did this upgrade really need such a massive net nerf? I've barely ever seen these things used, let alone seen them exploited in any way. Shouldn't we wait to see if this is an actual problem before we swing the bat?

Lots of other stuff that I would like to understand motivations about as well, but I don't feel like being overly critical in public chat.


PM away bro!
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