2.7 Proposal - AV Warrior Brood 'Melta bomb' Upgrade

[Torpid]

This is just a ridiculous argument you are trying to defend. Purely based on stats there is almost no unit in the game with worse defenses and hit points than a Zoanthrope. There is no way a Zoanthrope is more difficult to wipe than anything else in the game.

You yourself have argued many times that to counter a unit does not mean to kill it. If a Zoanthrope is impossible to kill because it is always in retreat it might as well not have been purchased.

Except it never has to retreat since it doesn't get knocked over from jumping units and tyranids always have 2 snares available from termagants and zoans have no set-up time as well as far superior range to ordinary ranged units... It's quite a unique example. There's nothing like it at all. It's easier to kill a weirdboy than it is a zoan (unless you are IG).

[boss]

The only reason people spam zoans cos it the best av nids have which you help this btw, change the power cost down from 60 to 40 = spam but really this should never have happen in the first place no snare for more damage and i told you how to fix this not fucking cap it no damage, snare, way more cool down and more power cost, this is way more fair than zoans 3 shooting transport cos you still need av damage or you can drive up and force it off this with the tswb will give nids 2 snare units a short range one and a long one 1 shot thing.

2 warriors build = mass setup teams unless you want ravs as well good luck with the upkeep plus you need av damage so gens or venom even more upkeep just to maybe kill a transport at best stupid the fact that you need war gear as well just tell us that the race has a big flaw and no race should have bad av.

No one play nids no more cos shit av plus no snare and im done with nids until they get good av so I like to no who are these nids player then?

[boss]

This is just a ridiculous argument you are trying to defend. Purely based on stats there is almost no unit in the game with worse defenses and hit points than a Zoanthrope. There is no way a Zoanthrope is more difficult to wipe than anything else in the game.

You yourself have argued many times that to counter a unit does not mean to kill it. If a Zoanthrope is impossible to kill because it is always in retreat it might as well not have been purchased.

Except it never has to retreat since it doesn't get knocked over from jumping units and tyranids always have 2 snares available from termagants and zoans have no set-up time as well as far superior range to ordinary ranged units... It's quite a unique example. There's nothing like it at all. It's easier to kill a weirdboy than it is a zoan (unless you are IG).

Then maybe we should give the zoan a small set up time as well like what Purgation has? tho it quit easy to kill zoan as it is more say than a weirdboy
tho if you lose the zoan it game ending thb

[hiveminion]

Except it never has to retreat since it doesn't get knocked over from jumping units and tyranids always have 2 snares available from termagants and zoans have no set-up time as well as far superior range to ordinary ranged units... It's quite a unique example. There's nothing like it at all. It's easier to kill a weirdboy than it is a zoan (unless you are IG).

You cannot convince me that you as an experienced player of this game can read this post and agree with it.

[Psycho]

The core issue the TSWB is trying to fix was caused by the zoan not having its snare in the first place, reducing the snare sources to rippers alone. With the TSWB you're sacrificing an upgrade the WB could have, indirectly nerfing them in situations demanding the upgrade. Having the zoan not have the explosive damage would also give some manner of counter to zoan spam in 3v3 in the form of vehicles if he goes for zero AV, but get a critical enough mass of zoans and it can reduce a russ to near dead in the blink of an eye, to say nothing of the looming threat of a massive burst of explosive damage lurking in the fog of war ready to pick off the vehicle that gets a bit of damage from whatever other source of AV, along with killing whatever repair support it may bring with it. Trying to close in with the TSWB just begs to get plasma in the face, considering that the closest thing to a vehicle the tyranids have is SHI armor rather than vehicle unless it pretty much disables itself for the engagement with that ability. If the zoan snare was too powerful in situations, the answer wasn't to outright remove it.

If anything, if vehicle snaring is lacking I'd look into rippers being modified to make their snare useful if they're so niche that in the first page there's not a single result for ctrl f on them. In 5 seconds of thinking with no thoughts on how it'd affect balance I even imagined rippers being a drop ability heroes could have, similar to SM heroes with their drop pod ability but dropping said rippers. The possibilities are anything but lacking.

[hiveminion]

If anything, if vehicle snaring is lacking I'd look into rippers being modified to make their snare useful if they're so niche that in the first page there's not a single result for ctrl f on them. In 5 seconds of thinking with no thoughts on how it'd affect balance I even imagined rippers being a drop ability heroes could have, similar to SM heroes with their drop pod ability but dropping said rippers. The possibilities are anything but lacking.

That was actually the Without Number global before it got changed. The only problem with Rippers as a snare is obviously that they are melee.

[HUNTER]

FFS can't we just revert zoans back to the way they were? This wasn't even a 1v1 issue was it?

[Oddnerd]

FFS can't we just revert zoans back to the way they were? This wasn't even a 1v1 issue was it?

That is the sole reason why they refuse to do it. I wasn't part of the 1v1 scene, but the claim is that it made it too easy for nids to destroy a vehicle.

[Atlas]

FFS can't we just revert zoans back to the way they were? This wasn't even a 1v1 issue was it?

That is the sole reason why they refuse to do it. I wasn't part of the 1v1 scene, but the claim is that it made it too easy for nids to destroy a vehicle.

Basically, but not quite. Only the most diehard nid supporters would deny that the Zoanthrope was simply too good and did too much and it was like that for years. That was the reason why all these changes happened in the first place.

[boss]

It sounds like to me your talking from retail again atlas zoans were nerf in elite they don't half shot squad's like in retail, their Focused Warp Blast was on way more cool down but still should do no damage and didn't 3 shot transport, cost more power and nid av was only venoms or tg or the ht or ra before gens was give rending claws for some reason even tho they are to deal with infantry not become the fucking av.

The only reason they over perform now is cos of your changes more damage for removal of the snare and less cost and lower cooldown these are your changes, you broken them again and how your going to fix this your going to cap them! are you just stupid? how about let someone who plays them plays understand them fix's your mess instead of you sound like half the time your making this up alone the way.

The only reason the Thorax Swarm is here cos my idea I wanted the Barbed Strangler to scale better and be more useful in the mid to late game and given the abit to snare but like I said back then this will be a short range snare and tyranids will still need a long range snare now unless your planning on giving venoms the snare which will make them overpowered the only other unit you can give a long range one is the zoan.

But like I say you should let someone who plays tyranids understand them balances them cos Atm it sound like you and torpid are just taking form retail