Remove the experience bonus from reviving fallen allies?

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
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Oddnerd
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Remove the experience bonus from reviving fallen allies?

Postby Oddnerd » Fri 17 Mar, 2017 12:34 am

From my experience it is fairly common for a diligent ally to reach level 4-5 after just a few engagements because he repeatedly revives a fallen ally. I'm not exactly sure how experienced is divided for kills, but it seems like the teammate who revives his ally repeatedly can out-level the enemy hero/heroes belonging to the team that killed his ally in the first place. This appears to be an example of rewarding a team for the failure of one of its members, which is universally bad design (cough cough sacred standard cough cough).

It seems like saving your teammate 250 req or more is a sufficient reward - since that involves negating a penalty, rather than a straight-up positive reward. A commander falling should be a serious loss and instead of rewarding someone on the team for reviving a fallen ally, bypassing the revival cost seems like a sufficient incentive.

Anyways, those are my thoughts, feel free to shit on them as necessary.
Vindicarex
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Re: Remove the experience bonus from reviving fallen allies?

Postby Vindicarex » Fri 17 Mar, 2017 1:05 am

Yet, it's been in the game since VDoW2 release.... sooooooo
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Re: Remove the experience bonus from reviving fallen allies?

Postby Atlas » Fri 17 Mar, 2017 1:16 am

We can probably take a look at it, but idk exactly how the xp is given out. I'd guess the xp given is probably in the ebps of the heroes themselves.
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Black Relic
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Re: Remove the experience bonus from reviving fallen allies?

Postby Black Relic » Fri 17 Mar, 2017 3:56 am

Every hero has a passive ability that allows them to revive. It would be easy to remove XP give from fallen allies. And yes Sacred Standard's passive buff when the FC is down is stupid. Its rather pointless since the effect of the buff is so small and a 25% damage buff to all unit around him and having a conscious hero is a million times better. Would rather it be changed to him being immune to suppression when lunder 50% or something.
"...With every strike of his sword, with every word of his speech, does he reaffirm the ideals of our honored master..." -From the Teachings of Roboute Guilliman as laid down in the Apocrypha of Skaros. Space Marines Codex pg. 54
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Broodwich
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Re: Remove the experience bonus from reviving fallen allies?

Postby Broodwich » Thu 30 Mar, 2017 3:49 am

I never understood why you got more xp from res than killing the guy. It's actually a decent strat to lose your com near the end of early fights for an easy res, since you greatly level up friendly coms

I'd definitely support a halving of the res gain
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Adeptus Noobus
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Re: Remove the experience bonus from reviving fallen allies?

Postby Adeptus Noobus » Thu 30 Mar, 2017 10:05 pm

Broodwich wrote:I never understood why you got more xp from res than killing the guy. It's actually a decent strat to lose your com near the end of early fights for an easy res, since you greatly level up friendly coms

I'd definitely support a halving of the res gain

Nothing more needs to be said about that. Reviving should give you less xp than killing. Right now, when I know my Team is around I always go full aggro because of that very mechanic. In a game that is all about preservation this has always struck me as very odd.
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Dullahan
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Re: Remove the experience bonus from reviving fallen allies?

Postby Dullahan » Tue 11 Apr, 2017 1:08 am

Broodwich wrote:I never understood why you got more xp from res than killing the guy. It's actually a decent strat to lose your com near the end of early fights for an easy res, since you greatly level up friendly coms

I'd definitely support a halving of the res gain


Revive only gives XP to the hero doing the reviving.

Killing a hero gives XP to all contributing units if I remember correctly. I'm not sure if it divides it or if every unit gets a flat amount as it has been a long time since I've looked at it.

Provided I'm not mistaken since it has been a few years:

Purposely getting your hero killed is still more of a boon to the enemy team than it is to you since you're going to level up several units simply to boost one of your teammates heroes slightly but there are still edge cases where it may be a good idea. (Mostly to make melee heroes like FC or WB have a higher melee skill and thus they'll be much stronger against banshees and other melee units.) Units leveling up is pretty significant and if you throw your hero away cautiously you can easily boost half your opponents army a level or two ahead of your own units.

Also you guys need to consider the Farseer's Spirit Stones if any changes are made, since this wargear has a passive that increases the XP bonus of reviving further. I'd hate to see something get broken through haphazard changes to how the game has been balanced for the last eight years.

Also on the note of the sacred standard: It's a passive perk that you're not meant to actively pursue benefit from. Perhaps it would be better to tweak it into a damage bonus for nearby units with every kill (much like Librarian, terminators or dreadnought) but I don't think it really needs to be changed.
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Re: Remove the experience bonus from reviving fallen allies?

Postby Adeptus Noobus » Wed 12 Apr, 2017 12:35 pm

Black Relic wrote:Every hero has a passive ability that allows them to revive. It would be easy to remove XP give from fallen allies. And yes Sacred Standard's passive buff when the FC is down is stupid. Its rather pointless since the effect of the buff is so small and a 25% damage buff to all unit around him and having a conscious hero is a million times better. Would rather it be changed to him being immune to suppression when lunder 50% or something.


The passive of the Standard actually is well in line with how SM are supposed to be played. Not only do they choose their engagements very carefully but also, where they want to engage. Losing the FC at a critical location and making your enemy fight you there is in my opinion a very viable strategy. If used correctly you should win the fight and the FC should be alive again afterwards to fight on.

The counter on the other hand is quite obvious as well: do not engage in proximity to a dead FC.

I think the Standard is fine, considering it is mutually exclusive with the Teleporter pack, which imo is much more troublesome.
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Re: Remove the experience bonus from reviving fallen allies?

Postby Black Relic » Thu 13 Apr, 2017 4:29 am

Well the Standard is OK in team games yes because he can be revived. In 1v1 a dead FC just to get the buff a stupid idea. In my honest opinion it is a bad design if a wargear can only be use at its full potential in a specific game mode.

While the Sacred Standard is good in 1v1 it's foolish to lose him just for that buff becuase 250 req is not worth it to constantly lose him.
"...With every strike of his sword, with every word of his speech, does he reaffirm the ideals of our honored master..." -From the Teachings of Roboute Guilliman as laid down in the Apocrypha of Skaros. Space Marines Codex pg. 54
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Ace of Swords
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Re: Remove the experience bonus from reviving fallen allies?

Postby Ace of Swords » Thu 13 Apr, 2017 2:53 pm

Black Relic wrote:Well the Standard is OK in team games yes because he can be revived. In 1v1 a dead FC just to get the buff a stupid idea. In my honest opinion it is a bad design if a wargear can only be use at its full potential in a specific game mode.

While the Sacred Standard is good in 1v1 it's foolish to lose him just for that buff becuase 250 req is not worth it to constantly lose him.


You could see it under another light, eventually you will lose your FC for a reason or the other and even dead the FC will provide a strong buff to your army.

though I still preferred when it was stronger,cheaper and T3.
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