Ogryns suck as AV

[Oddnerd]

Assuming you have a Bone Ead (who is essentially mandatory), they do 77.5 damage per second to vehicles, and this is reduced to 46.5 against walkers with melee resistance. This of course assumes all 4 ogryns are attacking and the vehicle is standing still. On paper it sounds alright, but in practice they suck as AV. They are damn near useless against any melee walker, and against other vehicles they are just too easily gunned down by plasma or controlled with suppression or various wargears (their slow, clumsy pathing doesn't help).

At this point I would rather trade away the heavy melee for standard melee or power melee and have them punish my economy less - IG have HWTs, sentinels, and Melta STs to deal with vehicles and those units do their job well. I used to play IG in tabletop and ogryns were not an AV unit, they were used to counter weaker, high model count melee units like sluggas and hormagaunts or to bully ranged units. As an IG main I would be much more inclined to purchase ogryns if they could fill this role, rather than being a crappy av unit that is only effective at bullying ranged units and getting countered by sluggas.

Thoughts?

[egewithin]

Well, Ogryns are not designed to go toe to toe against a melee walker. But they are doing a pretty good job for the walkers without melee resistance. For example; vanillia Dreadnought. Ogryns can't beat this guy. But when it gets tthe assaultcannon, specially when the Dread try to run away, Ogryns are very good at chasing at this scenario. I took down Dreads with this method before, and I think Ogryns AV is fine.

[Cyris]

You have accurately pointed out that Ogryns alone will not kill a heavy walker. You have also accurately described why I love Ogryns : bully ranged units and "soft" AV.

If Ogryns could easily 1v1 a heavy walker, I think they'd be OP nonsense. They can 1v1 light walkers just fine as is (BC, Deff, TG), threaten transports and pair with any other AV options particularly well (las hwt + ogryns = pain). They have a lot of fun combos with the different commanders, but have clear counters.

Do Ogryns suck as AV? Hell no. Are they a hard counter like a las-dev? Hell no. Though if you define "suck" as "isn't a hard counter" then sure. But I don't.

[egewithin]

In fact, there are a lot more vehicles that they can counter than they can not. They can kill 3 types of Carnifexes, 6 types of Dreadnoughts (all 3 races), 3 light walkers like BC, TG, DD, all ranged vehicles like Preds and Russes!

They just counter a few heavy melee walkers and that is it.

[Aguxyz]

they dont counter any type of fexes, ogryns get shrekt by any version of them

[DandyFrontline]

Ogryns suck as anything. They can be useful in some situations but they are waaaaaaaaaay overpriced. 450/90 should be price of ogryns+leader

[Adeptus Noobus]

Let's adress the obvious first: Ogryns are not a standalone AV unit and thus will never perform that job as well as a Lascannon-HWT e.g.
They are however a SHI melee superiority unit that, if supported well, rips through enemy lines easily. They do require some planning ahead so you can get them into melee without having already lost a lot of hp but make no mistake, IG has lots and lots of ways to ensure that. Be it unit abilities or hero wargear.
Second, if Ogryns countered melee walkers and more vehicles with ease they would be (as Cyris already mentioned) straight up OP. The AV capabilities of IG is already scary enough, having a Lascannon setup team that can't be knocked back and has ridiculous survivability (which is batshit OP btw), or an infiltrated mobile melta-dmg type unit for light vehicles. Let us also not forget the Sentinel with his missiles that trolls melee vehicles because they will never ever catch up with it.

Tex once made a post about Ogryns that in my oppinion explains the role and usage of Ogryns perfectly. In fact he was compelled to play IG only for quite some time, just to show that Catachans and Ogryns are very very strong if used correctly. Sadly I don't have the links.

[Oddnerd]

Apparently I worded my post poorly because I agree with everyone who is saying that Ogryns should not be a standalone AV unit. I actually want to go one step further and remove their AV altogether. I never purchase Ogryns for their AV damage, and would rather they be made cheaper in exchange for the loss of their heavy melee damage. Potentially, The Bone Ead could retain his heavy melee; there are other melee squads where the leader has just enough heavy melee to supplement the damage from SUTs and other dedicated AV.

My point is that ogryns cost a fairly steep 525/115 (plus the cost of re-buying the Bone Ead who seems to have the "dies first" passive), and I would rather see that reduced by a fitting amount, in exchange for eliminating their trash AV damage, since I only ever buy ogryns for disrupting my enemies T1 melee troops or ranged blobs.

[egewithin]

Well, no matter I disagree the point on Oddnerd, I can support his idea. Yeah, power melee Ogryns with heavy melee leader for a decreased prize. Their chase potential may still work, Banshees and Prifys for example are good with dealing with walkers without melee resistance. Also; if you think about it, Ogryns are still too expensive. They are cheaper with the last patch thanks to our team, but he might be right about the over prize.

Dude 525 - 115 is nearly same as a Leman Russ!However, I am not sure how healthy is it to compare Leman Russ's and Ogryns' prize.

[Forestradio]

They can kill 3 types of Carnifexes, 6 types of Dreadnoughts (all 3 races), 3 light walkers like BC, TG, DD, all ranged vehicles like Preds and Russes!

Did you mean to type can't instead of can?

if not,

[Dark Riku]

Dude 525 - 115 is nearly same as a Leman Russ!However, I am not sure how healthy is it to compare Leman Russ's and Ogryns' prize.

Cuz you can buy a leman russ in T2 right?

if not,

He is serious. He's referring to the ranged variants and thinks the base fex would lose to Ogryns.

[egewithin]

Okay, I might remember the results wrong, but I remember that I chased ranged Fexes with Ogryns and killed them, yes they has some low health and needed to fall back while I was chasing.

[egewithin]

Results may change with level of Ogryns, health of Fexes, supports and stuff, but I am sure that I chased ranged Fexes and killed them with Ogryns.