Tyrant guard melee resistance

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
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Tyrant guard melee resistance

Postby Batman » Thu 18 Aug, 2016 1:36 am

Batman wrote:tyrant guard either does not have melee resistance or it is not mentioned on dawnofwar.info website


Black Relic wrote:It does not have melee resistance. That is not a bug.

Nor should they since they do have over 2000 hp and if they had melee resistance there would be no reason to get a fex out imo.


Then a question rises - why other melee walkers have melee resistance? Venerable dreadnaught has almos as much hp. with VEHICLE armour and he is faster. Not to mention that tyrant guard is the slowest walker and already vulnerable to ranged damage. I see no reason for it to be vulnerable to melee as well.

Heavy melee already deals half the damage to vehicle armour and full damage to super heavy infantry armour that tyrant guard has. Furthermore, it takes by far more damage from power melee/regular melee that vehicles.

Following Black Relic's logic, seer council should not have melee resistance as well. Because they have too much HP. Or nobs. Or assault terminators. Or ogryns.

And for those of you who will say "But tyrant guard has imba regeneration!" - it is only 20 hp per second. A rocket launcer deals almost the same dps, and a dev lazcannon deals 1.5 times more dps, so it is pretty much killable. And Ive noticed a silly trend - that as soon as guard goes shieldwall, it is continued to get focused, ignoring the rest of tyranid army, which is a huge mistake. As soon as he is left isolated, he is dead.
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Re: Tyrant guard melee resistance

Postby Dark Riku » Thu 18 Aug, 2016 2:01 am

Batman wrote:Then a question rises - why other melee walkers have melee resistance?
They don't all have it. Bloodcrushers don't have it either.
Why other melee walkers have melee resistance? Because they got taken out to easily by dedicated melee units while they are supposed to be the counter to those.
Tyrant Guards never had that problem for a couple of reasons.
Batman wrote:Venerable dreadnaught has almos as much hp. with VEHICLE armour and he is faster.
The Vendread is T3 and costs a shit ton more, including red! How are you even comparing these 2 units to each other?
Not to mention that the Tyrant Guard is considered a very good unit. Who even still knows there is such a unit as the vendread?
Batman wrote:Not to mention that tyrant guard is the slowest walker and already vulnerable to ranged damage.
Combine it with towers and synapse, not so slow any more. It also has a charge.
Batman wrote:I see no reason for it to be vulnerable to melee as well.
It's only vulnerable to power melee squads an only if it's unsupported. You can still go into shieldwall and those power melee units can't do shit against it any longer.
Not to mention it should be backed up by the Tyranid swarm.
Batman wrote:Heavy melee already deals half the damage to vehicle armour and full damage to super heavy infantry armour that tyrant guard has. Furthermore, it takes by far more damage from power melee/regular melee that vehicles.
And your point with this is?
Batman wrote:Following Black Relic's logic, seer council should not have melee resistance as well. Because they have too much HP. Or nobs. Or assault terminators. Or ogryns.
No, that's not the logic he is going by...
Batman wrote:And for those of you who will say "But tyrant guard has imba regeneration!" - it is only 20 hp per second. A rocket launcer deals almost the same dps, and a dev lazcannon deals 1.5 times more dps, so it is pretty much killable.
A lone rocket launcher can't even hurt it while in shieldmode and you think that is fine? A lascannon deals 13DPS to it. Calculate how long it takes to die :)
Batman wrote:And Ive noticed a silly trend - that as soon as guard goes shieldwall, it is continued to get focused, ignoring the rest of tyranid army, which is a huge mistake. As soon as he is left isolated, he is dead.
As soon as any "walker" gets isolated it's dead.


Are you really asking for this already powerhouse of a unit to get even stronger?
A Tyrant Guard costs 400/55, a dreadnought cost 450/120.
Versus a dreadnought you only need to get AV weapons. A tyrant Guard usually takes anti SHI and AV squads because of it's unique design.
Let that sink in for a moment.
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Re: Tyrant guard melee resistance

Postby Black Relic » Thu 18 Aug, 2016 2:17 am

No, you should know that a tyrant guard under synapse is faster than a walker. He costs less than a dreadnought. And as you mentioned heals, charges and has decent splash damage when you look at how much damage he deals to his primary target. And the tyrant guard is not vulnerable to melee at all unless you push with him alone like any other walker in the game. But he also has a charge as i mentioned before so he can get out of bad situations. I have a feeling you will say that his charge is slow. But that's where I say you don't use the charge offensively and you charge out when you know you are going to lose the engagement so he leaves the fight while under synapse.

Tyrant guard is vulnerable to plasma damage and inferno damage (although it doesn't do extra damage). That's the only range fire. I can see plasma is a soft counter to vehicles it self since they do a decent amount (although not reliable). So yes he is vulnerable to ranged fire but you know what? Every walker is because every player would get a lascannon vs the Tyrant guard. Also the Tyrant guard can tank more lascannon shots than a dreadnought. You know why? Because the Tyrant guard has a larger health pool. And if you say that people tend to focus him him i refer you to your own post saying ignoring the rest of the nid army is a mistake.

Also:

The Venerable Dread mind you is not only t3 but is restricted only to the Techmarine and is still more expensive than the tyrant guard without including the red cost. So it should rekt face in melee. So using that unit is not a smart comparison to justify giving the Tyrant guard melee resistance.

As for the infantry. That is where i stop because in all honesty you are just attacking my post since you didn't hear what you wanted to. I gave my opinion one why they should not have melee resistance because then carnifexes would be overshadowed and no one would get them since they cost too much compared to tyrant guard and are in t3.

Before actually attacking someone's post you should think about the squad in question as well as taking into consideration the rest of that race's roster, and give a constructive response pointing out what you either don't understand or what you disagree with.
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Re: Tyrant guard melee resistance

Postby hiveminion » Thu 18 Aug, 2016 8:12 am

Melee resistance for the TG would be bonkers, he is already slightly underpriced as it is.

I disagree with people who complain about Shieldwall though, if that ever gets nerfed then the TG should not have to rely on Synapse for its speed.
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Re: Tyrant guard melee resistance

Postby Ace of Swords » Thu 18 Aug, 2016 4:17 pm

hiveminion wrote:Melee resistance for the TG would be bonkers, he is already slightly underpriced as it is.

I disagree with people who complain about Shieldwall though, if that ever gets nerfed then the TG should not have to rely on Synapse for its speed.


I think the TG should just get vehicle armor by deault and be done with it, it's too hard to counter between having to go with anti HI and AV to kill it right now.
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Re: Tyrant guard melee resistance

Postby Aguxyz » Thu 18 Aug, 2016 9:34 pm

idk if it's just me but i think its retarted that haywire nade's from warp spiders can affect it makes no sense to me
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Re: Tyrant guard melee resistance

Postby Batman » Thu 18 Aug, 2016 10:50 pm

Dark Riku wrote:Combine it with towers and synapse, not so slow any more.


Yes, towers will help it get to battlefield faster. But the bonus is only active outside combat, so there is usually no way for tg to escape unless he uses charge. And that eats precious mana needed for shieldwall.

People miss the point that antivehicle weapons are effective the same way against nonshielded tyrant guard. Devastator lascannon deals the SAME dps wheter its SHI or vehicle. So not only tyrant guard is vulnerable to antivehicle weapon, unless its shieldwalled it is also supervulnerable to plasma/power melee

Black Relic wrote: Also the Tyrant guard can tank more lascannon shots than a dreadnought. You know why? Because the Tyrant guard has a larger health pool.

The point is not in damaging it, the snare is the most dangerous effect of lascannon.

Dark Riku wrote:A lone rocket launcher can't even hurt it while in shieldmode and you think that is fine? A lascannon deals 13DPS to it. Calculate how long it takes to die :)


Much, Much shorter than for to fully regenerate. And a rocket launcher cant outdamage chimera that is being repaired as well.

Black Relic wrote: they should not have melee resistance because then carnifexes would be overshadowed and no one would get them since they cost too much compared to tyrant guard and are in t3.


Noone uses melee carnifex anymore, way too costly for a such a walker that doesnt even have splash damage in melee gets kited by any tank and, most importantly, has to slowly stomp back to base to get repaired. Only option (and a good one) is plasmabarbed. Because venom cannon is underperforming for its huge price since the fire on the move got removed.

And the semi-retardness of rippers is already discussed in another thread. Yes, they are extremely effective in assaulting set ups (unless opponent has aoe weapons) but tying stuff in melee is their only use now. Their snare effect is uneffective (unless opponents forget to look at their vehicle for like 10 seconds or so)

Aguxyz wrote:idk if it's just me but i think its retarted that haywire nade's from warp spiders can affect it makes no sense to me


And techmarine nade also affects tg. So one nade and a banshee squad nearby = dead tyrant guard.
Because, as Dark Riku said, melee walkers supposed to dedicated melee units, they should not die to banshees. Except tyrant guard.

Dark Riku wrote:It's only vulnerable to power melee squads an only if it's unsupported. You can still go into shieldwall and those power melee units can't do shit against it any longer.

And, khm, heavy melee.. so no, not only power melee squads are effective.
If a tyrant guard goes shieldwall, It is pretty much out of the game untill:
1. It regens all its HP (with a speed of 2 scouts repair it will take quite a long time, like fixing a land raider. However land raider woud still be in combat)
2. It has enough energy and the situation is favourable for him to get to safety.

Dark Riku wrote:
Batman wrote:Heavy melee already deals half the damage to vehicle armour and full damage to super heavy infantry armour that tyrant guard has. Furthermore, it takes by far more damage from power melee/regular melee that vehicles.
And your point with this is?

Is that with heavy melee tyrant guard will die much faster than dreadnaut. When dreadnaut receives 0.6*0.5 = 30% damage from heavy melee (40% melee resistanse + 50% damage of heavy melee to vehicles), tg will receive full 100%.
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Re: Tyrant guard melee resistance

Postby Crewfinity » Thu 18 Aug, 2016 11:50 pm

Batman wrote:
Dark Riku wrote:Combine it with towers and synapse, not so slow any more.


Yes, towers will help it get to battlefield faster. But the bonus is only active outside combat, so there is usually no way for tg to escape unless he uses charge. And that eats precious mana needed for shieldwall.

People miss the point that antivehicle weapons are effective the same way against nonshielded tyrant guard. Devastator lascannon deals the SAME dps wheter its SHI or vehicle. So not only tyrant guard is vulnerable to antivehicle weapon, unless its shieldwalled it is also supervulnerable to plasma/power melee

Black Relic wrote: Also the Tyrant guard can tank more lascannon shots than a dreadnought. You know why? Because the Tyrant guard has a larger health pool.

The point is not in damaging it, the snare is the most dangerous effect of lascannon.

You're missing the fact that lascannons fucking suck vs nids. the ONLY unit they are effective against in t2 is the tyrant guard, they're pretty useless otherwise. That's a big price to pay for a vehicle snare especially since they're losing suppression. if they get the lascannon you can just go tie it up with all the rest of your shit. 2500 is an absurd amount of hit point. it doesnt matter if the lascannon is effective vs SHI as well as vehicle armor when your health pool is that high (more than double that of a dreadnought).

Batman wrote:
Dark Riku wrote:A lone rocket launcher can't even hurt it while in shieldmode and you think that is fine? A lascannon deals 13DPS to it. Calculate how long it takes to die :)


Much, Much shorter than for to fully regenerate. And a rocket launcher cant outdamage chimera that is being repaired as well.

Yeah and I tend to think chimera's with GM support are kinda broken now that GM are cheaper.
dont forget that you can get added health regen with a brood nest of zoanthrope around. with that support the tyrant guard's health bar just flies up.
also some fun calculations for ya:
TG at full HP takes 75 seconds to kill with las devs
dreadnought at full hp takes 36 seconds to kill with las devs
TG at half health in shield mode takes 96 seconds to kill with las devs
dread at half health with double scout repair takes 46 seconds to kill with las devs.
time it takes for TG at 1 health to fully regen with a zoan next to it (both level 1): 35 seconds
qq moar plz

Batman wrote:
Dark Riku wrote:It's only vulnerable to power melee squads an only if it's unsupported. You can still go into shieldwall and those power melee units can't do shit against it any longer.

And, khm, heavy melee.. so no, not only power melee squads are effective.
If a tyrant guard goes shieldwall, It is pretty much out of the game untill:
1. It regens all its HP (with a speed of 2 scouts repair it will take quite a long time, like fixing a land raider. However land raider woud still be in combat)
2. It has enough energy and the situation is favourable for him to get to safety.

tg doesnt take that long to regen when you support it. you can also leave shield wall whenever, its not like u have to keep him there until he's fully healed. it gives you crazy good flexibility by being able to initially fight shees or sluggas or some other melee unit, tear them apart with splash damage, and then go shield wall before you get too low and finish them off with the rest of your army while they cant do anything to your tg. most of the time if you lose him its because you overextended.

Batman wrote:
Dark Riku wrote:
Batman wrote:Heavy melee already deals half the damage to vehicle armour and full damage to super heavy infantry armour that tyrant guard has. Furthermore, it takes by far more damage from power melee/regular melee that vehicles.
And your point with this is?

Is that with heavy melee tyrant guard will die much faster than dreadnaut. When dreadnaut receives 0.6*0.5 = 30% damage from heavy melee (40% melee resistanse + 50% damage of heavy melee to vehicles), tg will receive full 100%.

even with dreadnought taking 30% damage from heavy melee it only has 4000 effective HP versus that damage type (TG has 2500). if TG had melee resist like you propose it would have 4166 effective HP. do you REALLY think that's reasonable for a unit that costs 55 power?! dreadnoought costs 120 power and hits the field much later...
TG is only 55 power so you should be comparing it to units like bloodcrushers or deff dreads. in which case its waaaaaaay more durable.
i really dont understand why you think he needs melee resist. a shitload of power melee plus AV/heavy melee finisher is one of the few ways you can counter it, and even with that tactic it still does an ungodly amount of damage to opposing melee units. if he had melee resist he'd be stupidly OP.
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Re: Tyrant guard melee resistance

Postby Kvn » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 12:04 am

Batman wrote:And techmarine nade also affects tg. So one nade and a banshee squad nearby = dead tyrant guard.
Because, as Dark Riku said, melee walkers supposed to dedicated melee units, they should not die to banshees. Except tyrant guard.


Because Techmarine players are well known for incorporating Banshee squads into their builds.

But, as everyone else has already pointed out in great detail, the Tyrant Guard is in no need of a buff. It's already an incredibly powerful and VERY inexpensive for what it does. Half the power cost of a dedicated walker, and in many ways, it performs just as well if not better than them. TG is an incredibly potent unit. Buffing it with melee resist would be majorly over the top.
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Re: Tyrant guard melee resistance

Postby Forestradio » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 12:36 am

Techmarine nade does not affect tyrant guard, only drains the energy from it as it does from everything. But there is no damage or immobilization. I just labbed it.

Melee carnifexes have splash damage.
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Re: Tyrant guard melee resistance

Postby hiveminion » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 9:42 am

Can I just dispel some misconceptions here:

1. Calculating the time it takes to kill a TG in Shield Wall based on DPS is a bit misleading, because most AV DPS is delivered in big bursts. Therefore, when a TG gets below a certain amount of HP it will straight up die with the next shot. The actual HP recovery is also mitigated by residual damage from non-AV sources, especially if a power melee squad is contributing. I just know from experience that, for example, an Aspect of Strength Banshee squad with Exarch in combination with a Falcon is enough damage to prevent a Shieldwalled TG from regenerating, AND kill it reasonably quickly. That's not even from dedicated AV.
2. Adding the Zoanthrope into the mix just confounds the issue, because it is obviously the Zoanthrope regeneration MULTIPLIER(!) that is retarded, yet has never been touched since retail I believe. Also, why are you focusing down the TG and not the Zoanthrope?
3. Comparing Shieldwall to repair rates is unfair, you don't have to shut down your vehicle in order to repair it!
4. Lascannons don't suck vs Nids, just because they only counter a TG in T2. That logic goes for any race, unless you're playing against an idiot who gets a second vehicle after you brought a Lascannon. In T3, Lascannon counters Fexes and SL, the mainstays of the Tyranid T3.
5. People really need to stop comparing TGs to Dreadnaughts. TG are not comparable to vehicles in terms of their active combat role, you can't push them in situations where vehicles would go without problems. The vulnerability to plasma and power weapons is a MASSIVE deal, ask any Terminator or Ogryn. This is why its power cost is so much lower (albeit a tad too low I'll admit, 65-70 would be more appropriate).

To reiterate, I agree the TG should NOT get melee resist.
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Re: Tyrant guard melee resistance

Postby Black Relic » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 6:29 am

Imo people don't get melee fex's any more due to the zon losing its snare so the melee fex will now just die to a tank in t3 because he won't reach it. Some nid player would probably like to see the zon's focused warp blast damage removed and a snare be put in its place. But i just say that because i'm tired of being in a team game vs all nids and 4 zons use focus wap blast on my vehicle.

A snare is the most dangerous thing to any vehicle to be fair. But saying damage has no part in being a threat so a vehicle or a tyrant guard is a huge misconception. I mean look at the beamy loota. Doesn't snare but with that damage it does not need to.

As for changes to the tyrant guard. I would agree on a price increase, but i would also increase the speed of the bugger a bit but remove the melee charge he has (not the ability) when he is not being benefited by synapse and when he is under synapse he gets a melee charge.

But if nothing else i vote from price increase.
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Re: Tyrant guard melee resistance

Postby hiveminion » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 9:26 am

Black Relic wrote:.

As for changes to the tyrant guard. I would agree on a price increase, but i would also increase the speed of the bugger a bit but remove the melee charge he has (not the ability) when he is not being benefited by synapse and when he is under synapse he gets a melee charge.


I like this idea.

As an aside, I think the melee Fex is still the best Fex, because it doesn't get completely wrecked by an enemy tank. The Rippers it spawns (for free, why hasn't that been changed yet), and the charge it has give it a decent chance to escape when the other two Fexes are just sitting ducks, like any walker.
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Re: Tyrant guard melee resistance

Postby Dark Riku » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 11:58 pm

How about we start by getting our facts right?

Quotes cut out for space:
The tower bonuses bonuses are active all the time.
People use melee carnifesses.
melee fexes have splash damage
News flash: Tanks are supposed to counter melee units

Batman wrote:The point is not in damaging it, the snare is the most dangerous effect of lascannon.
What good will a snare do for you if you have nothing to damage it with?
Batman wrote:And a rocket launcher cant outdamage chimera that is being repaired as well.
How is this even a reply? This doesn't debunk anything I said.
You can target the GM in your example you know. Now tell me how I can target something else to stop the TG from healing?
Batman wrote:and, most importantly, has to slowly stomp back to base to get repaired.
Or park it next to broodnests, zoans,...
Batman wrote:And the semi-retardness of rippers is already discussed in another thread. Yes, they are extremely effective in assaulting set ups (unless opponent has aoe weapons) but tying stuff in melee is their only use now. Their snare effect is uneffective (unless opponents forget to look at their vehicle for like 10 seconds or so)
You know Rippers are speed 7 base, right? And that they are free with the "useless" melee fex.
Batman wrote:And techmarine nade also affects tg. So one nade and a banshee squad nearby = dead tyrant guard.
Because, as Dark Riku said, melee walkers supposed to dedicated melee units, they should not die to banshees. Except tyrant guard.
That's not what I freaking said -.-
Ridiculousness of this notion has already been proven enough though.
In short again. Shees are not a SM unit. The nade only drains the energy, yeah retarded, rite?
Batman wrote:And, khm, heavy melee.. so no, not only power melee squads are effective.
Power melee squads do 130% damage. Heavy melee does only 100% damage. Do you see any abundance of heavy melee in T2?
Batman wrote:If a tyrant guard goes shieldwall, It is pretty much out of the game untill:
1. It regens all its HP (with a speed of 2 scouts repair it will take quite a long time, like fixing a land raider. However land raider woud still be in combat)
2. It has enough energy and the situation is favourable for him to get to safety.
The fix is called micro. Can you imagine other melee walkers getting a charge ability too?
Batman wrote:Is that with heavy melee tyrant guard will die much faster than dreadnaut. When dreadnaut receives 0.6*0.5 = 30% damage from heavy melee (40% melee resistanse + 50% damage of heavy melee to vehicles), tg will receive full 100%.
See the above points of me and others on why this is wrong.
Last edited by Dark Riku on Thu 25 Aug, 2016 11:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Tyrant guard melee resistance

Postby lolzarz » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 11:21 am

Batman wrote:
Dark Riku wrote:Combine it with towers and synapse, not so slow any more.


Yes, towers will help it get to battlefield faster. But the bonus is only active outside combat, so there is usually no way for tg to escape unless he uses charge. And that eats precious mana needed for shieldwall.

People miss the point that antivehicle weapons are effective the same way against nonshielded tyrant guard. Devastator lascannon deals the SAME dps wheter its SHI or vehicle. So not only tyrant guard is vulnerable to antivehicle weapon, unless its shieldwalled it is also supervulnerable to plasma/power melee


Consider that heavy weapon squads must replace the heavy bolter/(replace heavy bolter with suitable HMG) to get the lascannon. Consider that there is otherwise NO REASON WHATSOEVER for players to buy a lascannon against tyranids in tier 2. The tyrant guard just forced the other team to give up their suppression, which is practically necessary against tyranids before tier 3. Tyranids have gained an advantage. In lieu of taking the lascannon, plasma guns can also be used, which conveniently prevent them from being used against the warriors. Ditto for power weapons, which also get smacked by the tyrant guard due to its splash damage and very large health bar. Its current state also lets it easily defeat melee walkers in close combat, because both units take the same amount of damage, but the tyrant guard has twice the health. I don't see what's wrong.

Batman wrote:[
Black Relic wrote: Also the Tyrant guard can tank more lascannon shots than a dreadnought. You know why? Because the Tyrant guard has a larger health pool.

The point is not in damaging it, the snare is the most dangerous effect of lascannon.


Read above for why forcing a lascannon purchase is an advantage.

Batman wrote:[
Dark Riku wrote:A lone rocket launcher can't even hurt it while in shieldmode and you think that is fine? A lascannon deals 13DPS to it. Calculate how long it takes to die :)


Much, Much shorter than for to fully regenerate. And a rocket launcher cant outdamage chimera that is being repaired as well.


Yes, which is why the primary objective in fighting Imperial Guard armored units is to KILL THE GODDAMN GUARDSMEN. Are there little termagants I can kill to remove the regeneration?

Batman wrote:[
Black Relic wrote: they should not have melee resistance because then carnifexes would be overshadowed and no one would get them since they cost too much compared to tyrant guard and are in t3.


Noone uses melee carnifex anymore, way too costly for a such a walker that doesnt even have splash damage in melee gets kited by any tank and, most importantly, has to slowly stomp back to base to get repaired. Only option (and a good one) is plasmabarbed. Because venom cannon is underperforming for its huge price since the fire on the move got removed.

And the semi-retardness of rippers is already discussed in another thread. Yes, they are extremely effective in assaulting set ups (unless opponent has aoe weapons) but tying stuff in melee is their only use now. Their snare effect is uneffective (unless opponents forget to look at their vehicle for like 10 seconds or so)


Suppose your premise that melee carnifexes are bad is correct. Therefore, the solution is to... buff tyrant guard?

Batman wrote:[
Aguxyz wrote:idk if it's just me but i think its retarted that haywire nade's from warp spiders can affect it makes no sense to me


And techmarine nade also affects tg. So one nade and a banshee squad nearby = dead tyrant guard.
Because, as Dark Riku said, melee walkers supposed to dedicated melee units, they should not die to banshees. Except tyrant guard.


The techmarine grenade does nothing against tyrant guard but drain energy. Which means it does nothing if you, say, paid attention to the techmarine throwing a grenade and A. charge out of AoE or B. Shield Wall before it explodes. And that, incidentally, means the techmarine is not bringing a signum. I don't think I need to explain what a signum does and why should the techmarine bring it. Also, where's the rest of the army?

Batman wrote:[
Dark Riku wrote:It's only vulnerable to power melee squads an only if it's unsupported. You can still go into shieldwall and those power melee units can't do shit against it any longer.

And, khm, heavy melee.. so no, not only power melee squads are effective.
If a tyrant guard goes shieldwall, It is pretty much out of the game untill:
1. It regens all its HP (with a speed of 2 scouts repair it will take quite a long time, like fixing a land raider. However land raider woud still be in combat)
2. It has enough energy and the situation is favourable for him to get to safety.


In return, it doesn't die like a walker should and the tyranid player saves 400/55. Only melee walker analogue to get a free regen ability and you complain about it?

Batman wrote:[
Dark Riku wrote:
Batman wrote:Heavy melee already deals half the damage to vehicle armour and full damage to super heavy infantry armour that tyrant guard has. Furthermore, it takes by far more damage from power melee/regular melee that vehicles.
And your point with this is?

Is that with heavy melee tyrant guard will die much faster than dreadnaut. When dreadnaut receives 0.6*0.5 = 30% damage from heavy melee (40% melee resistanse + 50% damage of heavy melee to vehicles), tg will receive full 100%.


And the tyrant guard has double the health. And is cheaper than the dreadnought. And gets a free charge ability. How much heavy melee do you see before tier 3 anyway?
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egewithin
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Re: Tyrant guard melee resistance

Postby egewithin » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 12:34 pm

I think we (or some of us) are mising the concept of Tyrant Guard. Tyrant Guard is a line breaker, just like Blood Chrusher. He is not supposed to be a melee superiorty, he has a good melee potential but that is it. Just like the concept of jump troops. They are melee units, but made for dealing with ranged squads who are vunrable to melee. Tyrang Guard and Blood Chrusher are more like a straight way to deal with these ranged troops. They are leading your army and breaking the enemy lines. Can't you see the beauty of this? ^^

And comparing Dreadnought with Tyrant Guard is wrong. Dreadnought made for melee combat. He has much better melee skills than line breaker units, and he is way durable than line breakers thanks to his armour type. He is not vunrable to melee units either thanks to his anti-melee ability.

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