Community Choose Your Own Adventure - OM

[Aetherion]

Gonna raise the issue on purified blades which seems to be designed for the brother captain to fend off melee squads in the early tiers. Definitely worthless atm. Was cool when it drained energy, but didnt help deter enemies. Can we make it that when equipped (or having an activated ability), it increases his melee skill when he gets hit (temporarily by a small amount that stacks to a certain maximum and is reset when he specials). Not sure if too OP.

[Metal C0Mmander]

Well since this is a completly fantastical and unrealistic thread about OM balance then all I really want to see are Grey Knight terminators in T2 and the dreadnaught in T3. I don't know how you'd balance it but it's lore friendly and come on, T2 terminators and end game dreadnaught. It's awesome and you know it.

[The Bad Road]

T2 terminators is not as impossible as it seems...the imperial guard provides a t2 super heavy unit in the Ogryn and it certainly isn't unbalanced by any stretch.

So to be hypothetical this is what the GK t2 terminator would look like.

GK t2 Terminator

Role: Linebreaker, soft anti vehicle

Cost Reinforce: req 80/power 15, time ten seconds, population 6

500 req

100 power

population: 18

time: 50 seconds

Stats

Health: 500 per terminator

Health regen: 0.5

Energy: N/A

Energy regen: N/A

Melee skill 71

Melee damage: 45 damage per second, 45 damage per hit

Ranged damage: 40 damage per hit, 20 damage per second.

Ability

Teleport: Same as normal terminators

Restrictions

No Retreat button

Wargear: We could just import wargear from the tier 3 GK terminator but since this is hypothetical anyway does anyone have some particularly juicy and lore friendly wargear ideas?

[Black Relic]

^^ thats is way too weak tbh. 500 hp for terminator will get rekt since the terminators will most likely have 3 models. The price is also way too high imo. Purifiers would most likely get purchased over the terminators any day.

Since Purifiers are Om's line breaking unit in t2 i would like to add an ability that increases their charge range and lowers how much they are slowed down by suppression. With a nerf being their base charge range is reduced.

The Ograns in the Imperial Guard arsenal are very different than if OM got terminators in t2. And besides Purifiers are pretty much Organs minus the KB on demand ability and instead has an area denial ability that can force an enemy's backline to move and cut their damage for a bit.

I might have mentioned it earlier, but one fast change i would introduce is moving interceptors back to t1. However they do not have an active teleport and instead have a 25 (30) change range that is a teleport (similar to how terminators teleport into combat). And when they get their leader that have an active teleport with a range of 35. In my eyes interceptors should be able to change targets very quickly and be able to disengage others with ease.

In t3 interceptors when they get their nemesis focus (because i would give it back to them with some changes of course) would get access to the holocaust ability which would also get a rework. The ability would lift units yes but those units would not take any damage and could take any damage from other sources. The ability would give room for the interceptors to actually do their job. tying things up and allow them to change targets quickly while lowering the amount of time they are actually being counter initiated on.

Now the down side to the is the 25 teleport charge range is that means they can still be suppressed and knocked back before they can teleport in to tie up a set up team. But OM still have ways to dislodge set up teams before the interceptors go in like StormTroopers with GLs or the BC getting focus fired. It would force a OM player to split his army and plan a bit before he engages rather than just A moving.

One last thing would be their AV Nade. Its damage is lowered (200) but it does snare (40%) for 12 seconds.

A just like that i think OM are back to being decent again.

[The Bad Road]

In all honesty I wouldn't rework purifiers, instead if the crusaders prevail into this mod they should have an upgrade that makes them a living wargear along the lines of FC chainsword and shield. We need a linebreaker that early, otherwise eldar and anyone else with suppression will just lay down dev/platforms and fuck us up int 1v1.

[Black Relic]

Which is way i also reworked interceptors. Which does the same thing what crusaders would be doing, deal with suppression but a player could interrupt them to keep them from doing anything.

And crusaders that run into a set up team is very risky. And if they get a range damage resistance along with suppression immunity than that reduction would have to be massive because they will be focused. If the range damage resistance is too little then the problem will still persist. And you have a BC with a sword next to them then they can become too broken taking nearly no range damage. And let's assume the crusaders will get massive buff resistance and then we have the crusaders move slower while active. Then what is the point in focusing them? Force the rest of the OM army and the crusaders are sitting ducks. Yes you can have Gl ISTs but your crusaders will still have to use that ability slowing themselves down. And that slow might even be an opportunity for the set up to reposition and set up again well after the crusader's suppression immunity is gone and then you still lose the fight.

Honestly i think the crusader unit is wishful thinking and the only reason why people don't complain about the FC SS is because of the movement reduction. And if they do find a good place to be in then they become the line breaking unit because they are able to get into melee combat with range units and cause havoc. Although they will get rekt by counter initiation more than any other squad imo.

With the interceptors they would naturally be less susceptible to piercing damage and will almost immediately tie up the set up team or a dangerous range squad when they are coupled with the GL IST. And there is room for scaling in my interceptor suggestion to where they don't lose their initial purpose which is getting in the back line quickly, tie target up long enough for BC to get in and changes target easily.

[The Bad Road]

That does remind me...could IST be reworked into a slightly less fragile unit? If crusaders are a no go then IST needs to be made viable. Just give em a raise to 250 a piece and 125 health per model. Also could the poor things get what their brothers in arms in the IG get? Meltas and Melta bombs as a tier 2 upgrade to supplement our amazingly horrible AV (probably replacing the priest/acolyte squad leader slot)?

[Black Relic]

I think IST would still bleed a bit too much even then. Because even though they have more HP when they do drop their reinforcement cost will really skyrocket and 2 IST would never be purchased since it would slow down your gens if you choose to go the 2 IST route. Because having a cheap starting squad really helps those low model high Hp races since this starting squad doesn't cost too much to reinforce not damaging their eco too much (unlike when a tac or a SS dies) even when there are 2 of the said squad. Now certain heros do tend to heavily exploit a 2 starting squad build like the Knob or the Warp spider. It all really depends on how the rest of the OM eco can handle the change early game. Now it does need to be tested because who know it could be revolutionary.

We dont want the IST to mirror IG's ST because then someone will come along and ask "why don't they have the same damage too?"(i assure you some one will show up and say that). But being serious here IST aren't meant to be all of OM's range damage or quick source of AV, (Which is one of my complaints of SS and their melta kit being so cheap) which is what could happen if they did get the same upgrades as SS. Now IST do have scaling in the form of the plasma guns so they can help do some additional damage and offers an ability to help control a dangerous unit.

Now in terms or AV OM have it. You cannot count team games when looking at OM AV. Since i remember doing a OM vs Nid faction war and we couldn't get a Las Rhino because of 4-5 Zoanthropes being on the field and the interceptors are really bad in team games anyway since they just get focused sooo fast similar to Meltagun Raptors. OM do need a snare, Which is why i want Interceptors to have a snare again because i want them to be worked on in a way were their main purpose is the control the enemy squad and keep them from doing what they want to do. Also I would lower Vindicators AV damage and add a small snare of 20-25%. The Psycannons could actually be reliable but also give the enemy player with the vehicle a window to react.

[egewithin]

Before 2.5, I was using 3 IST and it was very good. I can't remember which change on GK / OM stoped me from playing like that.

Yeah, it was a good idea to go 3 plasma in T2 with Purgation Psycannons, and buffing them with We Are the Hammer and Clear Vision. What happened last patch guys?

[The Bad Road]

Alright but there is still one other matter to be discussed, to go from subfaction to actual faction. I've been looking at the acolyte model from the SS squad and I'm wondering why not just make his the inquisition hero for the OM?

Reason for this is twofold, one OM needs more variation and two the BC is trying to do too much. The BC needs to settle into his role whatever that may be, another hero needs to take on the support role the BC tries (and fails at) doing. So here is the basic idea, add to it what you will.

OM "Inquisitor" (perhaps Interrogator?)

Role: Support combined with good melee and decent health (on par with the Lord Commissar)

Wargear: The one I can name off the top of my head is the Eviscerator (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Eviscerator), a t2 melee weapon that serves in a role similar to the Ork/Lord Commissar Power Klaw perhaps with an ability like the FC's power fist.

Any ideas folks on other options for our chainsword armed fanatic?

[Black Relic]

I already added the inquisitor to the OM race in my mod and she works almost unreasonably well with them. It pretty much just a copy and paste (apart from the globals) from the IG inq.

I think you would got 3 IST into a rhino befor 2.5 (although i dont remember when the rhino went to t2 from t1) and that allowed survivability for the IST because they could just pile in the rhino before losing too many models making it a little easier to control your bleed. Apart from that idk what happened. Might be caz purgation came back to t1.

[The Bad Road]

@Black Relic

I was thinking something more along the lines of this guy (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Torquemada_Coteaz), basically a much more melee oriented character then the IG Inquisitor (if I remember correctly Ordo Malleus is much more melee then the Ordo Herecticus).

[Aetherion]

Before 2.5, I was using 3 IST and it was very good. I can't remember which change on GK / OM stoped me from playing like that.

Yeah, it was a good idea to go 3 plasma in T2 with Purgation Psycannons, and buffing them with We Are the Hammer and Clear Vision. What happened last patch guys?

IST cost from 210 to 225. Considering they are as fragile as GM and their acolyte leader has even worse survival instincts than GM sarges, running out of cover when targeting enemies (especially when using GL) and being a die last model helps the squad take more damage than they should. The bleed is makes 3 of them less viable than before

[Cyris]

Sorry for dropping the ball on this. Life got real busy, and then I stopped playing DOW2 for a while. I'm back on the wagon now, but damn is it hard to work up desire to even think about OM. I've been doing a few rounds as them recently to brush up, and it's so frustrating. I don't have the energy to continue this thread, but Ill see if I can power through a full fantasy change list of my own.

Thanks for reading, maybe I'll rez this in the future. Go ahead an make some new threads with the discussions happening at the tail here, there's some good stuff!