Cadian Kasrkin Squad with grenade launchers.

[Black Relic]

I'll just leave this here.
https://youtu.be/k2YnoDUdQc0?t=1479

Im quite neutral to this conversation but that video does not help prove the Grenade Launcher Kasrkins need a buff. Since We only saw the fire once at a single squad that was not only moving but also retreat within 3 seconds they were on the screen. And you could say but they didn't even defend the VP all that well and it's because seer council was in melee combat with them. If those Kasrkin was with freeman's army there might have been a change in the game since they would have lost the VP on the Top left as long as they were targeting a capping squad (although they still would have lost i think).

[_4ut_]

prove

Post replay, then you play as IG and doing good with KG. Or go away.

[Black Relic]

Then post a good relevant replay to back up your argument and you won't hear what you don't want to.

[enasni127]

they also continually knockback rather than having an activated ability that does this. that's a pretty big deal that you're overlooking and makes them even better at denying capping as well as harassing formations.

yeah, and that's exactly why soooo many people play kasrkin only for their great launchers.... -.-'

really, i can't remember when i last saw kasrkin nade launchers doing anything meaningful at all.


Actually I'm quite disappointed by current kasrkin in general. Imho they are by far too weak for a T3 elite infantry and far weaker than other t3 infantry of other factions. I usually regret it whenever i buy them instead of a leman russ or strom troopers on t2

[Aguxyz]

Back when Kasrkin use to have meltas i used to build like 3 of them with meltas with LG with his GL's move move move ability to just go around and kill vehicles or nade flanks i miss them having meltas and troll around

[_4ut_]

Then post a good relevant replay to back up your argument and you won't hear what you don't want to.

I reed whole discussion again and don't understand why you shitposting in the end of it. In same time that rest of us agree, and you to, that Kaskrin need some changes.

[Black Relic]

You gave a bad replay to support your argument for buffing Kasrkin Grenade Launchers which is wrong.

And my suggestions aren't buffing the unit itself but making the price lower and making the speed of the launchers a tad faster so they hit more reliably. That is not an increase in damage nor an increase in the knockback AoE.

So as I said before I am quite neutral here though. I won't get the squad ever because a tank is just better in every way (unless it's lascannon galor and then you'd get a guardsmen squad) and that will not change ever. Because you can buff them enough to match performance to cost and they will still fall short of a Leman Russ.

[Gorbles]

For someone who's being quite condescending, you don't seem to realise that reducing the cost of a unit buffs the unit. Unless you want to play semantics of "cost doesn't affect performance on the battlefield" to which I'd respond with "it's defined in the squad code for the unit and impacts when you can get the unit onto the battlefield thus affecting it's window of opportunity within the game".

So yeah. Still a buff.

Buffing the speed of the launcher? Definitely a buff of the unit in every sense of the words. You just want it buffed in a different way. You aren't neutral, because neutrality means you won't intervene and here you are intervening by posting. I mean it's a good way to look like you don't care, but you've kinda posted too much to act like you don't care.

Don't understand what you're getting at by calling people "bad" for the sake of it, especially when you're getting such basic things wrong in the first place.

[Tinibombini]

Don't understand what you're getting at by calling people "bad" for the sake of it, especially when you're getting such basic things wrong in the first place.

He didn't call anyone bad. He said the replay was bad support for the proposition of buffing the GL launcher:

You gave a bad replay to support your argument for buffing Kasrkin Grenade Launchers which is wrong.

If want to provide an opinion of why the replay is good support for buffing the grenade launcher then that might be helpful.

Like Black Relic, I am pretty neutral on buffing/changing the GL launcher and for the same reasons. The Leman outshines both the baneblade (by getting 2 lemans) and karskin squads by such a massive degree that I don't think changing GL would make much of a difference. I think it is far more effect to actually rout the enemy with tanks, and employ cheap GM or even STs to deal with las cannons than to buy karskins. My view is limited to playing against IG and not playing as IG.

[Gorbles]

Fair point. I'd argue that "bad replay" from a player who made the replay carries through the "bad" label but I've put too many words on here already. Sorry about that!

[Black Relic]

Probably should say i meant lowering the price of the grenade launchers and not the actual squad my bad there.

[_4ut_]

I'll just leave this here.

Nobody watch's this? And I watched. God launchers play? No. Kaskrin nade do job? Noup. Plasma kaskrin do match? Noup again. And what it should explain? If you dominate opponent whole match you can teabadt him with kaskrin? Yes, that's right.
https://youtu.be/r3mwcqAFJko

[Ace of Swords]

I'll just leave this here.

Nobody watch's this? And I watched. God launchers play? No. Kaskrin nade do job? Noup. Plasma kaskrin do match? Noup again. And what it should explain? If you dominate opponent whole match you can teabadt him with kaskrin? Yes, that's right.
https://youtu.be/r3mwcqAFJko

You obviously didn't watch the game then, because the nade killed a tank and kas brought me back in a game where I was losing.

[_4ut_]

You obviously didn't watch the game then, because the nade killed a tank and kas brought me back in a game where I was losing.

You obviously didn't watch video that I casts from this game. And its not a kaskrin win, its ork luse. Simpl shtormboyz will rape you back.

Kaskrin nade do job?

nade killed a tank

HM, i lost this episod, only see a wreak tank. Ok kas nade Do Job. Sorry for that. (and my terrible English to)

God launchers play? No. Plasma kaskrin do match? Noup again.

And you kas comeback don't explain this.

game where I was losing.

Game where you bit orc. 2gm+autocanon+shtormtrupers+LGsniper buf=bloob of doom, and it weeks orc. Gm loos in nurglclaud, and eap kaskrin more taf vs it.

In summary its economic win, 2full gen farm+node vs 1gen farm, and Eldar whip nurgl army in melee. Kas win its about 10% of summary. In well orc play its do nothing for you.I

[Ace of Swords]

Nobody watch's this? And I watched. God launchers play? No. Kaskrin nade do job? Noup. Plasma kaskrin do match? Noup again. And what it should explain? If you dominate opponent whole match you can teabadt him with kaskrin? Yes, that's right.
https://youtu.be/r3mwcqAFJko

You obviously didn't watch the game then, because the nade killed a tank and kas brought me back in a game where I was losing.

You obviously didn't watch video that I casts from this game. And its not a kaskrin win, its ork luse. Simpl shtormboyz will rape you back.

wat

[_4ut_]

You obviously didn't watch the game then, because the nade killed a tank ...
wat

OkOk. Rewatch it and LOL. Leman make 95% damage to ork tank and lolskrin beat it with 2 plasma squads. GLORIOUS win for them, iam impression. Give me more that sweet and candy replays. With launchers same time.

[Aguxyz]

wat

[Nurland]

How about we calm down a bit and remain constructive?

No more wats or provoking sarcasm.

Now to the actual topic. Being able to finish off vehicles is a big deal. If the tank gets away with 50hp it is not dead. It needs repairs sure but not dead.

It is nice extra utility to be able to do some AV with an anti-infantry squad.

That said I think Kasrkin need some minor buffs to their weapon upgrades to make them viable. Like plasma gun range and maybe get their meltas back.

GL could get a bit more damage or a faster projectile.

[_4ut_]

because the nade killed a tank

Ah it abaut nurg tank.
80% of the damage make Eldritch and another 15% Brightlance:
https://youtu.be/r3mwcqAFJko?t=26m32s
While kas nade hit one of the two. It's not even melta lipe and easily dodgt.

Аnd there was a good moment when kas almost wipe nobs and nade worked perfectly, so for the moment thanks:
https://youtu.be/r3mwcqAFJko?t=26m49s

And may pain is: Video where about freeman could not do anything with the "100% prevent the capture point" grenadelaunch, it is not proof. And the fact that kaskriny killed 2 tanks with 5% health, yes it is.

corrected with the removal of sarcasm

[_4ut_]

How about we calm down a bit and remain constructive?
Being able to finish off vehicles is a big deal. If the tank gets away with 50hp it is not dead.

Yes, its big deal. But the fact is Red Beard dropt playing at that moment. And because not dodged grenades.
And seriously harm technique grenades that do not adhere to it. What a chance? 5-10%? 50%? Who knows.

[Nurland]

Fr33man couldn't really do much since he was being doubled not because Kasrkin GL suck.

[_4ut_]

Fr33man couldn't really do much since he was being doubled not because Kasrkin GL suck.

I thing he was busy with his main army on the left side, while on right, guarding point, kaskriny simply can not hit, by themselves, into sirkonsil and the like, grenades too slow for that without ground targeting. And the conclusion is that GL can`t perform his basic function, if you do not micro them + expensive + funny damage less than of T1 units. That is why they are not so good. And no one play them.

That said I think Kasrkin need some minor buffs to their weapon upgrades to make them viable. Like plasma gun range and maybe get their meltas back.
GL could get a bit more damage or a faster projectile.

But it would fix it all, so we'll wait and see. Thanks.

[enasni127]

People are talking around the problem AGAIN.

What IG need is a T3 Infantry unit which has a realistic chance of stopping/KILLING approaching units like Terminators and Nobs. I know that Kasrkin are just human beings and not some sort of super human but it would be very easy to give them 2-3 more squad members of the same strength and as well 1 or 2 more special weapons to compensate for them not being genetically enhanced beings. This would probably be a big enough buff to their HP and DPS to make them superior to GM or Stromtroopers.

They just need some real firepower to be worth playing no matter what Caeltos says -.-

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

Maybe the problem isn't that Karkrins sucks (which could be, I'm not a IG player), but Leman Russ being too good and having too much synergy with Bunkers and GM?

[Forestradio]

Kasrkin can start ripping terminators and nobz to pieces when their cost goes up to ~700 req and 200 power, as well as massive red investment either on purchase or over time...

Let's please not go back to the days when double kasrkin killed a full hp GUO in about 10 seconds, that was ridiculous.

[enasni127]

Kasrkin can start ripping terminators and nobz to pieces when their cost goes up to ~700 req and 200 power, as well as massive red investment either on purchase or over time...

Let's please not go back to the days when double kasrkin killed a full hp GUO in about 10 seconds, that was ridiculous.

They should at least do considerable damage to those mentioned squads. If necessary I would by 2 squads of them. I think that would be ok.

What I dislike, and I'm not the only one as it seems, is that IG got a highly expensive T3 capping unit which makes no sense in 99% of all matches. How is that not ridiculous?

[lolzarz]

I think a way to differentiate them from guardsmen would be to give the grenade launchers the ability to switch to krak grenades like sentinels. It would give the grenade launcher kasrkin squad some versatility to switch between infantry and vehicle targets, which is absent in storm troopers and guardsmen. While the meltaguns do respectable damage, the storm troopers really die too fast to serve as anti-infantry and the assault kit requires no explanation. Guardsmen, of course, do not get an anti-vehicle option at all. The plasma gun could do with increased range so it's 45 range like the hellguns, instead of 38 range like other infantry. It should help kasrkin stand off in a firefight against enemy units, perhaps forcing opponents to leave cover so they can get within range.

With that being said, why do flash gitz snazzguns do 3 times the DPS of kasrkin hellguns? The hellguns could use a straight damage buff. Hell, so could the plasma guns.

[Nurland]

Gitz don't have extra capping speed, sprint and av and ai nades. Hence the dps. Also IG ranged roster is already great

[lolzarz]

@Nurland

So... I see that you agree there is a need to buff the plasma guns on the Kasrkin to normal hellgun range. If you disagree with the frag/krak grenade launcher concept, what's your take on improving it?

[Nurland]

I don't think Kasrkin need such a launcher. Honestly reintroducing meltaguns could be a good idea. Kasrkin sarge could also go down in price.

Current Kasrkin GL are fine. Could maybe use a minor buff.

The plasma gun issue is a bit problematic. Long range plasma damage could be a bit ott for IG that already is very very strong in ranged firefights.

The current plasma though is just bad unless you are facing strong (S)HI melee stuff. You lose range and you get bad cost/damage increase ratio when compared to stuff like Tac or GM plasmas.