Patch 2.5 (WIP)

[Sturnn]

Right, just checked, they don't have FoF, my bad. They are simply fucking fast

[Dark Riku]

Anyway, if any one has replays of Firedragons dominationg please send them my way. In the games I catch everyone is probably to honorable to use them, so I don't see them much. (Somewhat weird though, being "OP" never stopped people abusing other things for easy wins.)

Broaden your search, If only I cared enough to save replays I'd have enough for you.

[Forestradio]

Anyway, if any one has replays of Firedragons dominationg please send them my way. In the games I catch everyone is probably to honorable to use them, so I don't see them much. (Somewhat weird though, being "OP" never stopped people abusing other things for easy wins.)

http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/r ... ost9819549

fire dragons are so op they can counter flesh hook!

[Deflaktor]

Anyway, if any one has replays of Firedragons dominationg please send them my way. In the games I catch everyone is probably to honorable to use them, so I don't see them much. (Somewhat weird though, being "OP" never stopped people abusing other things for easy wins.)

I had once a 3v3 game where I lost my entire army after a severe lag spike. The game did not go well either way, we were getting pushed off easily and often. I actually wanted to concede, but instead I popped out 2 squads of fire dragons. Surprisingly they single handedly turned the whole situation around by easily wiping multiple squads. I remember it was against cornholio... he was pissed. But I think I did not save that replay.

Either way, I, too, fear of the fire dragons being nerfed too heavily. I think there is no other unit in dawn of war 2 with power armor and less than 200 HP each model. The only other one I know of are the dark reapers, and their HP is getting buffed to 200 each model. Also remember that dark reapers are a long range unit while as fire dragons are short range and thus are exposed to heavy focus fire. IMO they should have kept the infantry fire resist armor (makes sense that fire dragons get resistance to fire) but lose instead that 30% ranged reduction. That would also mean they would not get as easily insta gibbed by plasma cannons.

On the other hand, fire dragons are good gen bashers so even if they lose their front line role, they very well fit into other roles and are still pretty cheap. So I'm just looking forward to see how it plays out.

[Dark Riku]

Why exactly does it make sense that they would be resistant to fire?
It doesn't even make sense from a fluff perspective. It's just a name. It's not like they are Salamander Space Marines.

[Crewfinity]

while we're at it we should change the armor type of the Avatar to infantry flame resist.
cuz fluff

[Black Relic]

honestly i never really minded their passive range damage reduction. My only problem is their passive kb immunity. I'd rather the fire dragons keep their range damage reduction and lose all of their passive kb immunity. However, tie their kb immunity (except for ability) into their ability.

I also want fire dragons to stay as infantry_fire_resist so I have less ammo switching to do on sterns

[Cheekie Monkie]

while we're at it we should change the armor type of the Avatar to infantry flame resist.
cuz fluff

Make it completely immune to melta and flame weapons and you have a deal.

Also make fire warriors resistant to fire too please.

[Deflaktor]

Why exactly does it make sense that they would be resistant to fire?
It doesn't even make sense from a fluff perspective. It's just a name. It's not like they are Salamander Space Marines.

I have no clue about fluff and thought since they do have that fire resistance, that it does come from fluff. And I honestly don't care whether it's infantry fire resist armor or just infantry armor. For me it makes more sense for them to be normal infantry than heavy infantry, since they are so small and look squishy. It is my opinion only though. Maybe that change to heavy infantry armor will be more balanced.

[Venjitron]

when patch......

[Dark Riku]

When ready. Unless you like broken patches?

[bibotot]

Anything that ADDS models to IG squads instead of LOWERING them gets a thumbs down from me. Why? They are already blobby as hell. I already have a lot of trouble clicking the right unit. The Heavy Weapon squad has a problem when dudes with lasgun run forward and get get in the melee, making the guy who is stuck with the big gun stuck in melee as well. Now its not 3, but 5 guys who will run forward like idiots? Why not add models to Ork and Tyranid squads? They are grossly few that the terms Horde and Swarm are pathetic. What is the logic of this change again?

Aside from that, I suppose people will just stop building Paladins altogether with this change and switch entirely to GK Terminators. They don't cost Red, so you can build them as long as you have enough normal resources. I feel like 350 Red just to Deepstrike some dudes is too expensive. For example, the Leman Russ call-in cost 200 Red but you save 125 power. I feel like GK Terminators should really be even more expensive than just 600/125. 600/150 would be my call.

[bibotot]

while we're at it we should change the armor type of the Avatar to infantry flame resist.
cuz fluff

Make it completely immune to melta and flame weapons and you have a deal.

Also make fire warriors resistant to fire too please.

I suppose you mean Fire Dragons. There are no Tau in this game. The Fire Dragons deserve fire resistance, if they give up their immunity to knock back first.

[saltychipmunk]

Who the hell uses fire vs fire dragons any way?

[egewithin]

Who the hell uses fire vs fire dragons any way?

I thınk a Salamender drop pod will appear at the roof of your house soonish.

[saltychipmunk]

Is that a personal/fluff preference of that chapter or is that legitimately the best way to handle fire dragons?

[Lulgrim]

I think Salamanders consider fire the best way to handle anything, including actual fires.

[Tex]

Lord General's tank drop is OP as fuck. We all knew this, but it needs changing. Just look at the venerable dreadnaught getting a power cost increase. Now look at something actually super useful in T3 at any time, the LG tank drop, and voila! NO POWER COST!!!

Please fix -_-

[Adeptus Noobus]

Lord General's tank drop is OP as fuck. We all knew this, but it needs changing. Just look at the venerable dreadnaught getting a power cost increase. Now look at something actually super useful in T3 at any time, the LG tank drop, and voila! NO POWER COST!!!

Please fix -_-

I agree with that. I have never compared the two like that but it only makes sense. 500/-/200 is kinda low for the ability to drop one of the strongest, if not the strongest tank directly into combat.

[Batpimp]

Lord General's tank drop is OP as fuck. We all knew this, but it needs changing. Just look at the venerable dreadnaught getting a power cost increase. Now look at something actually super useful in T3 at any time, the LG tank drop, and voila! NO POWER COST!!!

Please fix -_-

I agree please do something about this ability!

[Oddnerd]

I think tank drops in general are not well balanced. I don't like either the Banewolf drop or the Russ drop. The fact that a russ drop costs no power is huge, you can rush to T3 and you don't even need to put the effort into saving up the power or waiting on the build time. Makes it too easy to be one of those people who gambles on a huge tech advantage. I have similar feelings for the banewolf, T2 vehicle rushes hurt enough, but when you rush T2 and can completely bypass the build time and the time it takes to get to the frontlines/the enemys gens, it feels way too easy.

[egewithin]

Banewolf is balanced. It is already expensive enough. Even if you rush to T2, you need to have 175 red for it so rush is not working on Banewolf I am afraid. Also, leaves you behind on teching.

[Adeptus Noobus]

Banewolf is balanced. It is already expensive enough. Even if you rush to T2, you need to have 175 red for it so rush is not working on Banewolf I am afraid. Also, leaves you behind on teching.

EDIT 1:
http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/r ... &id=305266

Watch that and reconsider....

EDIT 2:
The Banewolf is (imho) one of the most powerful drop-ins there is. If you manage to get it onto his genfarm and your opponent has no AV, he will loose gens + node worth 425 req to rebuild (compared to 350 req for the BW), severely crippling your economy with just one drop. The Banewolf can then continue to harrass your units whereever it pleases as long as you manage to tie up AV. It also skews your opponents build strategy because now he will have to deal with a vehicle that is not that easy to kill if managed properly, which will cost him further power, taking him more and more away from the build he actually had in mind.
I will not make the case for it being OP but you have to admit that it is nothing else short of a game-winning unit. I have watched countless games where people just instantly concede once they see the call-in happening because they know they will not recover from this. Even a Deff Dread is not as dangerous as the Banewolf.

[Cyris]

I'm honestly on the fence about LG Russ callin. It is real strong and saves you 125 power, but it's a lot of red, can often only be used once and gives you what your opponent should already be expecting in T3. I could see it costing something like 50 power, or bumping up the red cost from 200 to 300, but I'm not really sure if it's necessary. I think of it as one of the inherent advantages of that commander, much like the FS's council callin (which saves her 50/100). On the same note, the TM Ven Dread cost increase seems unnecessary to me,though of the two I would rather see LG's drop price increased.

By contrast, Banewolf is totally OP and I'd actively be in favor of it getting another round of nerfs (I'd like to see callin time increased like the LRC, to give some more time to setup defenses.)

Though both dramatically change their effectiveness in 1v1 vs 3v3. ::shrugs::

Edit:

I will not make the case for it being OP but you have to admit that it is nothing else short of a game-winning unit. I have watched countless games where people just instantly concede once they see the call-in happening because they know they will not recover from this. Even a Deff Dread is not as dangerous as the Banewolf.

FWIW, I think you ended up making an argument for it being OP Here's my feelings as on it an 1v1 Inq player: If I make the game go into a semi-heavy T1 by being aggressive in pushing and spending, and if I am doing decently (not winning, not losing), and if I have enough red as T2 rolls around (made much easier by the aforementioned heavy/aggressive T1) and if the map control is fairly neutral come T2 finishing (again, reasonable to assume considering the previous "ifs") then I'm gonna drop an uncontested Banewolf and burn all your power and win. While this may seem a niche situation, it isn't that hard to engineer in an even match (even implies me and my opponent are trading blows well).

So what we have is a semi-niche callin that will lock down a game in early T2 if the game is even (there are some racial and compositional exceptions, though even they leave me at an advantage by forcing my opponent into a limited number of builds / very conservative play through only the threat of the banewolf, which I can then choose to not purchase!). I'd call that OP. "Just never let them get to T2 before you" is an excessively unreasonable bar to set.

By contrast, while strong, I feel the Russ drop is much less a full on win out of a tie, and getting to T3 is a much more significant / predictable hurdle then T2.

[Adeptus Noobus]

FS Council call-in happens at base though. The Russ can be dropped directly into combat.

[Cyris]

FS Council call-in happens at base though. The Russ can be dropped directly into combat.

Changing this would also be a reasonable nerf imo, though I suspect the in-combat calling is one of the lesser gripes about it.

[Oddnerd]

I wonder if the banewolf could be fit into the regular IG T2 roster, rather than as an Inquisitor-only cheese ability. I agree with what a few others have said - its probably the most frightening rushed unit in the game for me.

[Aguxyz]

FS Council call-in happens at base though. The Russ can be dropped directly into combat.

WEBWAYS

[Aetherion]

FS Council call-in happens at base though. The Russ can be dropped directly into combat.

WEBWAYS

Those cost red too, at least 100, more if your opponents spots one (quite easy imo)

[Aguxyz]

FS Council call-in happens at base though. The Russ can be dropped directly into combat.

WEBWAYS

Those cost red too, at least 100, more if your opponents spots one (quite easy imo)

WEBWAY BONUSES