Patch 2.5 (WIP)

[Adeptus Noobus]

Menacing Visage does not trigger the retreat.

[Crewfinity]

No one has raised a fuss over the loss of hellfire strike yet, does it really not matter?

Meh. Its much better with the INQ due to her wealth of control abilities, GK has less ways to set it up, I know I primarily used it as a squad killer in retreat path, but that's a lot of red for something that didn't always land, and in general it seemed to me that mind blades and LRC were better investments.

#my2cents

[hiveminion]

and in general it seemed to me that mind blades and LRC were better investments.

What about Dark Excommunication? One of the best globals in the game IMO.

[Dalakh]

Purgation in Tier 1, vehicle rhino in T2 and red costing paladins ? Just remove the term retreat and it would feel like I wrote these patch notes myself.

I'm curious to see the changes that will be brought to eldar. But I'll most likely give this patch a try when it's out.

[Cheekie Monkie]

GK is now the only race which has only two build able T3 units. Can we expect something else in the works? (I don't know how that Dreadknight model is coming along)

Space Marines.

Oh...well...

um...

Vanguard Veterans?

[Helios]

Any chance Whiteshields are getting a design revisit?

[Dark Riku]

GK is now the only race which has only two build able T3 units. Can we expect something else in the works? (I don't know how that Dreadknight model is coming along)

Space Marines.

Oh...well...

um...

Vanguard Veterans?

Oh...well...

um...

Upgrade?

I would like to see you purchase Vanguard straight from the HQ

[Cheekie Monkie]

Oh...well...

um...

Upgrade?

Nej, since the ASM is completely replaced by a new unit, I would say that Vanguards are a separate T3 unit rather than an upgrade.

#semantics

Anyway, GK T3 is versatile enough to be more than terminator spam now, so thumbs up for that. I guess I just wanted to see the Dreadknight grumble grumble.

[ChrisNihilus]

Will the "Grey Knights" be rename as "Ordo Malleus" ?

It's the perfect occasion to do so.

[HandSome SoddiNg]

Query,Why Is Aegis moved to t2? thats odd

[HandSome SoddiNg]

and in general it seemed to me that mind blades and LRC were better investments.

What about Dark Excommunication? One of the best globals in the game IMO.

NOOOO CREAMY,LEAVE IT BE.

[WNxDarkRaven]

Something on my wishlist for a very long time: could you make the Crusader pattern an upgrade for the normal Space Marine Land Raider? I really want to see a Black Templar Crusader.

[egewithin]

Something on my wishlist for a very long time: could you make the Crusader pattern an upgrade for the normal Space Marine Land Raider? I really want to see a Black Templar Crusader.

GK has it. Land Raider Crusader with 6 bolters each side.

[HandSome SoddiNg]

Something on my wishlist for a very long time: could you make the Crusader pattern an upgrade for the normal Space Marine Land Raider? I really want to see a Black Templar Crusader.

GK has it. Land Raider Crusader with 6 bolters each side.

and very expensive

[HandSome SoddiNg]

WATH not increasing his speed anymore is good. He's already a fat tank barreling towards you in T1 with a starting ability that increases his speed AND a melee charge, he really doesn't need both.

BC is alry a slow-ass commander, he is only tanky in 1v1. He die even easily now in team-games. He's suppose to lead the charge not fall behind his troops

[Flash]

Sod I have to disagree. At the moment he is too tanky in the early game and you in team games it's absurdly hard to force him off when he gets aegis and can charge through suppression teams. (He still can now, just a lil less effectively)

[Sub_Zero]

Yes, vanguard veterans are not an upgrade. However they are not a separate unit either in the standard meaning of this word since they require you to have ASM with a squad leader. Seer council is a separate unit. Vanguard veterans/sternguard veterans are some kind of onanism (though sometimes it is nice to get them this way and via the HQ)

The problem with the BC is not his T1 armour, it is his cheap halberd and teleport pack he shouldn't ever have.

[Flash]

Yes, vanguard veterans are not an upgrade. However they are not a separate unit either in the standard meaning of this word since they require you to have ASM with a squad leader. Seer council is a separate unit. Vanguard veterans/sternguard veterans are some kind of onanism (though sometimes it is nice to get them this way and via the HQ)

The problem with the BC is not his T1 armour, it is his cheap halberd and teleport pack he shouldn't ever have.

Disagree. His halberd and teleported could probably use a cost increase( +5 power), but his massive sustain and field presence in t1 is due to the blessed aegis and force sword. GK in general seem to be hard to balance due to their wildly varied performance in team games vs 1v1. In 1v1s,GK weaknesses are more exacerbated, whereas iteam gamesyour allies can cover your deficiencies.

[Sub_Zero]

Disagree. No matter how tanky he is when he is forced to run his way to enemies you can focus fire him, especially with a setup team (the closer the more damage).

Tell me what can you do to this fuck (with conventional tools, don't mention specific abilities of heroes) when you can't even focus fire him anymore and he is immune to KB and suppression?! Teleportation is more OP than just more HP and extra regen. And the halberd lets him rape any melee unit.

In T1 he is just that tanky and annoying phat phuck who still can be focus fired and successfully engaged by melee units. Halberd + teleport? Hah, not anymore.

But I am not telling that that armor is the most balanced thing to have in T1. Just that combo is more broken and needs fixes more than this armor.

[Paradise Lost]

Disagree. No matter how tanky he is when he is forced to run his way to enemies you can focus fire him, especially with a setup team (the closer the more damage).

Tell me what can you do to this fuck (with conventional tools, don't mention specific abilities of heroes) when you can't even focus fire him anymore and he is immune to KB and suppression?! Teleportation is more OP than just more HP and extra regen. And the halberd lets him rape any melee unit.

In T1 he is just that tanky and annoying phat phuck who still can be focus fired and successfully engaged by melee units. Halberd + teleport? Hah, not anymore.

But I am not telling that that armor is the most balanced thing to have in T1. Just that combo is more broken and needs fixes more than this armor.

Then there is also WATH which makes him faster than he should be, as well as letting him buff his already overperforming Heavy Infatry.

[appiah4]

Terminators can still retreat, because?

[welshy]

Terminators can still retreat, because?

Good point. Why and when did someone go these GK terminators need to be able to retreat? Why did this variant of terminator need the retreat option, but not any other?

The GKs in general need to become more micro intensive, any beginner can get good/great results with the GK without having to do too much work. Let them try IG or Eldar and watch their W/L ratio plummet.

[WNxDarkRaven]

Something on my wishlist for a very long time: could you make the Crusader pattern an upgrade for the normal Space Marine Land Raider? I really want to see a Black Templar Crusader.

GK has it. Land Raider Crusader with 6 bolters each side.

Yes, I know.
That's why I asked if it was possible to mod it in as an upgrade for the normal Space Marine Landraider. Just for people like me who would like to see a Crusader without actually having to play GK.

[ChrisNihilus]

more micro intensive

Those words are the cancer of the RTS genera as a whole.

This game is good because it's more strategy (as in Real time strategy, you know), logistic and awareness, and less clicking.
If you like a game where who click faster win, go play SC2.

[Dark Riku]

Upgrade?

Nej, since the ASM is completely replaced by a new unit, I would say that Vanguards are a separate T3 unit rather than an upgrade. #semantics

You can't just ignore the fact that if you want vanguards in T3 without having asm out already that you have to wait for asm to build, wait for the sarge to build and then wait for the vanguard to be called in (650/105/0/65s)... It's an upgrade. On a less serious note: addition of buildable Vanguard in T3?

Something on my wishlist for a very long time: could you make the Crusader pattern an upgrade for the normal Space Marine Land Raider? I really want to see a Black Templar Crusader.

Ask yourself the questions if it would be balanced and/or needed in one way or the other. Then a lot of additional question: upgrade cost, trait gains/losses, etc.
Is it possible to do? Yes. Would it be a good thing to do? I don't think so.

[welshy]

I am simply comparing the levels of micro between one of the existing races and one the Grey Knights in 2 v 2 or 3 v 3 environments.

The recent Indrid cast simply shows how little micro is required for a solid performance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmx2cfM1czs

Blob up, shoot everything to death, mass retreat then rinse and repeat. He didn't build any

Operatives
Interceptors
Purifiers
Rhinos
Librarians
or the Vindicare assassin

and I understand why, he didn't need to as just pure dps and health through his build was perfect enough to win the game.

Anyone can do that. Try doing that with IG or Eldar and he will have problems.

Anyway rant over

[Sub_Zero]

An upgrade is something that enhances an existing unit. How does that thing enhance your existing assault marines? It replaces them. Not making them any better. Not an upgrade by definition within this game's specifics.

On a more serious note - change sternguard veterans according to my idea, it is awesome, objections aren't acceptable.

[WNxDarkRaven]

Something on my wishlist for a very long time: could you make the Crusader pattern an upgrade for the normal Space Marine Land Raider? I really want to see a Black Templar Crusader.

Ask yourself the questions if it would be balanced and/or needed in one way or the other. Then a lot of additional question: upgrade cost, trait gains/losses, etc.
Is it possible to do? Yes. Would it be a good thing to do? I don't think so.

GK were also not needed, but they made for a cool addition. Just give it a cost of 100/20 (reaches the same cost as a GK Crusader) and give it the same stats. I'm just putting the thought out there.

[saltychipmunk]

An upgrade is something that enhances an existing unit. How does that thing enhance your existing assault marines? It replaces them. Not making them any better. Not an upgrade by definition within this game's specifics.

ehh i always viewed an upgrade as something that affects a unit that also requires the unit to exist first.

plus it does technically make them better. it converts their damage type from partial power melee to full power melee, it upgrades the damage for the leader by a good amount as well and they get a modest stat boost everywhere else.

so long as you didn't have 3 levels and/or the melta upgrade it is technically a solid step up over asm and in all regards.... an upgrade. .. so yeah .. upgrade

[Superhooper01]

Shrouded in great mystery they were....No longer. Nice notes keep up the good work.