Are 1v1 games balanced?

[bibotot]

I play Imperial Guards in 1v1, and I have lost to players who I would beat in our lane in a 3v3. The Imperial Guards is not too weak in 1v1, but there are some issues. For example, Plague Champion with Bile Spewer combined with Raptors is very hard to beat in tier 1, and the Bile Spewer kills power like crazy.

Also, there are maps where I consistently win, and others where I consistently lose. The maps I normally win are more confined and players will tend to blob up their troops. The maps that are open and require players to spread out units to capture points, I cannot win because the Imperial Guardsmen are useless when forced melee by Heretics. In larger engagements with more units invovled, focused fire on the Heretics will destroy or repel them.

So coming back to my question, do you think that 1v1 games are balanced? Should I just play 2v2 and 3v3 instead?

[Torpid]

Of course you could beat them with IG in 3v3. IG in team games require practically no skill whatsoever. Freeman frequently buys 2x GM, sent, spotters, and stormtroopers in T2. All he does is a-move then with the LG's sniper ability while behind his allies and he does tremendous work, bleeding models all over and there is no counter-play as you are simply out-ranged in a laney, blobby game of bullshit.

1v1 requires actually microing. Actually having positioning and predicting where abouts your foe will be going to.

You obviously are not very good at any of this given that you cannot win on the big open maps which indubitably favour IG, yet you can win on closed off maps more akin to 3v3/2v2.

I think IG are the second most powerful race in 1v1 atm after tyranids. So you're doing something very wrong.

[Corrie]

Of course you could beat them with IG in 3v3. IG in team games require practically no skill whatsoever. Freeman frequently buys 2x GM, sent, spotters, and stormtroopers in T2. All he does is a-move then with the LG's sniper ability while behind his allies and he does tremendous work, bleeding models all over and there is no counter-play as you are simply out-ranged in a laney, blobby game of bullshit.

1v1 requires actually microing. Actually having positioning and predicting where abouts your foe will be going to.

You obviously are not very good at any of this given that you cannot win on the big open maps which indubitably favour IG, yet you can win on closed off maps more akin to 3v3/2v2.

I think IG are the second most powerful race in 1v1 atm after tyranids. So you're doing something very wrong.

What is the point in this useless trash of a post? He's posting with a question and asking for help against a certain build and gets this thrown at him?

There is no counter play to IG in 3v3? the most easy race in the game to bleed and wipe? throw in an aids grenade into this "blob" and the damage is insane.. grenade launcher.. noise marines, noxious cloiud. pretty much any AOE will ruin this tactic your talking about.

If going by your logic the past 2v2 tourney that requires no skill and that the best 1v1 players should win, then why didn't noisy and riku win? they were put out by players who play team games.

Back to the topic, I would say 1v1 is the most balanced perhaps things are a bit less balanced this patch but generally the game is balanced around 1v1

[Adeptus Noobus]

While I am not an IG player or a regular 1v1 player (occasionally I do though) I can say this: IG has one of the strongest T1 unit in a 1v1 which would be the Sentinel. Now if you were to combine that with one of the stronger 1v1 commanders, which would be the Inquisitor, you have a very strong 1v1 race, as Torpid has pointed out.

throw in an aids grenade into this "blob" and the damage is insane.. grenade launcher.. noise marines, noxious cloiud. pretty much any AOE will ruin this tactic your talking about.

Apart from grenade launchers and the cloud you are simply outranged by the unit/wargear composition that Torpid spoke about. Noise Marines? Focus fired before they even come close to firing of a single shot. AK-STs have range ~59 whenever the LG activates "Fire on my target". That is fucking far! Good luck to any unit that wants to close in. Let us also not forget spotters. Disruption + range reduction in short succession. Now how again did you want to approach that blob? Also, on a sidenote, GM may be easy to kill but the bleed inflicted is very low (Seargant + Commissar + low upkeep of the same). God forbid they are supported by a Chimera or Bunker.

Now to the original post - several questions/issues arise:
1. How did the Heretics get into melee combat with your GM? You should have the Sentinel around your troops in engagements.
2. Raptors are best countered with the Sentinel and spreading your units.
2.1 Which hero do you play? LC and Inq have quite a few tools to deal with Raptors.
3. The Bile Spewer has range 20 compared to the range 38 from the normal Bolter. Use that to your advantage. PC is a bit fragile early on.

You could also provide replays to look at.

[Corrie]

I don't know which game mode your addressing adeptus, but when you have heretics charging with PC, noise marines and the GL disrupt from additional tics at least one of those threats are going to reach you , PC is one of the hardest matchups for IG along with warlock and they have plenty of tools to shut them down, although i see why other races can struggle with it like SM.

Yes IG are a strong 1v1 race along with pretty much all the races in the game in this current meta, I seen people complain orks were too weak before this patch until tex went and won the monthly rumble with them,

What tools are you referring to that deal with raptors that the Inq and LG have? sent stomp and catchans are more than enough.

[Dark Riku]

There is no counter play to IG in 3v3? the most easy race in the game to bleed and wipe? throw in an aids grenade into this "blob" and the damage is insane.. grenade launcher.. noise marines, noxious cloiud. pretty much any AOE will ruin this tactic your talking about.

Bleeding GM's is almost no bleed at all though, if you manage to get a nade in that usually means the IG player is not paying any attention or there was a set-up. Most other AoE's come in T2 when you can either retreat out and execute with a commissar upgrade or use a chimera.

If going by your logic the past 2v2 tourney that requires no skill and that the best 1v1 players should win, then why didn't noisy and riku win? they were put out by players who play team games.

I hadn't played for over a month though, Noisy wasn't exactly motivated either and we played SM's
Last time I checked, Hive Minion and yaya (aka free willy, yeey) are 1v1 players too.

[Swift]

Considering the fact that 1v1 requires one single opponent versus another, with no other extra-player support, I'd say it's completely balanced, everything happens based on how you work it out.

[Max_Damage]

Of course you could beat them with IG in 3v3. IG in team games require practically no skill whatsoever. Freeman frequently buys 2x GM, sent, spotters, and stormtroopers in T2. All he does is a-move then with the LG's sniper ability while behind his allies and he does tremendous work, bleeding models all over and there is no counter-play as you are simply out-ranged in a laney, blobby game of bullshit.

1v1 requires actually microing. Actually having positioning and predicting where abouts your foe will be going to.

You obviously are not very good at any of this given that you cannot win on the big open maps which indubitably favour IG, yet you can win on closed off maps more akin to 3v3/2v2.

I think IG are the second most powerful race in 1v1 atm after tyranids. So you're doing something very wrong.

What is the point in this useless trash of a post? He's posting with a question and asking for help against a certain build and gets this thrown at him?

There is no counter play to IG in 3v3? the most easy race in the game to bleed and wipe? throw in an aids grenade into this "blob" and the damage is insane.. grenade launcher.. noise marines, noxious cloiud. pretty much any AOE will ruin this tactic your talking about.

If going by your logic the past 2v2 tourney that requires no skill and that the best 1v1 players should win, then why didn't noisy and riku win? they were put out by players who play team games.

Back to the topic, I would say 1v1 is the most balanced perhaps things are a bit less balanced this patch but generally the game is balanced around 1v1

I agree with him why u so mad?

IG sentinel is close to imba at t 1 and always was.
Best IG av weapon is... manticore. which got cheaper. Yeah sit back and click on your opponent and win kind of unit.
Come T3, you get those ridic leman russ tanks. THey get like what. 40% damage reduction from all types? Let me tell you this at this point this is plain cheating. Your tank gets 66% more HP and your units repair your tank 66% faster effectively as well! At this point there is not enough DPS to take out a single repaired tank most of the time.

IG bleed? lol. 7 req per trooper? try playing eldar and orks and see what bleed is.

1v1 is pretty balanced at least compared to the 3v3. 2v2 is also kinda well balanced. I think the worst race right now is chaos tho and its always a loser side in 1v1s at least the vod/replays i see.

[saltychipmunk]

vehicle styled units in t1 are always a hot point for balance issues.

when you have a unit that costs as much as an infantry squad but

cant be tied up
can be repaired on the field
cant be suppressed
is usually faster than most units
and has a decent hp pool and armor type ( for t1)

well , that is a pretty nice list of perks for a unit that can show up at the start of the match and take advantage of the fact that no race has an effective counter to it till after the first engagement. even then it can just run around doing a better decap job then every scout style unit in the game.


tba , it really should have a power cost , and ig should get some other requisition unit as their second opener choice. the early game sent dominance option is just a cheesy no brainier , especially in 1v1 where armies are more split up.

[Toilailee]

1v1 is the most balanced game mode.

[saltychipmunk]

that being said its competition is not exactly competent? yeah ... 3v3 and 2v2 are quite awful with some of the ability synergies. but they are way more fun than 1v1 since 1v1 generally is less about combat and far more about map control

[Max_Damage]

that being said its competition is not exactly competent? yeah ... 3v3 and 2v2 are quite awful with some of the ability synergies. but they are way more fun than 1v1 since 1v1 generally is less about combat and far more about map control

On the other hand 1v1 makes units shine and makes you understand balance and subtle tweaks more easily and readily

[Cyris]

1v1 is the most balanced mode, and it's also the mode where the widest variety of units and upgrades are useful.

I completely agree that IG are the top of the 3v3 food chain. They "suffer" in 1v1 insofar as they are prolly only 2nd best after nids.

But none of this really matters, play the mode you prefer with the race you enjoy! Balance in ELITE is quite good, unless you are a real top player competing in a tournament, any race is basically viable. The key is to find a match for your playstyle.

[Swift]

A lot of this "Best faction" and "worst faction" silliness is thrown around a lot. Factions are stronger and weaker in certian matchups, but in the current balance it's unfair to call one faction the "worst".

And Max, some of your facts and figures are a bit awry. :/

[DandyFrontline]

Nope, it's not. Balance builds on 3vs3 games. 1vs1 for noobs

[Cheekie Monkie]

Nope, it's not. Balance builds on 3vs3 games. 1vs1 for noobs

Totally agreed, 3v3s, especially faction wars is and always has been the benchmark for balance in the game.

1v1 just involves two dudes slugging it out against each other, occasionally with other dudes watching, how boring is that? Then you've got the shitty overused maps AKA Green Tooth Whorge and his friendly neighbourhood slutmuffin Calderis who's been passed around the block a few hundred times, not like our bro tier buddy Argos Dessert.

1v1 also has a lot of bullshit involved, like 'map control', 'economy management' and 'flanking' - bitch I ain't got time for that.

[Tex]

Nope, it's not. Balance builds on 3vs3 games. 1vs1 for noobs

Totally agreed, 3v3s, especially faction wars is and always has been the benchmark for balance in the game.

1v1 just involves two dudes slugging it out against each other, occasionally with other dudes watching, how boring is that? Then you've got the shitty overused maps AKA Green Tooth Whorge and his friendly neighbourhood slutmuffin Calderis who's been passed around the block a few hundred times, not like our bro tier buddy Argos Dessert.

1v1 also has a lot of bullshit involved, like 'map control', 'economy management' and 'flanking' - bitch I ain't got time for that.

love this guy

[Swift]

Meanwhile let's ditch these restrictive, oppressive forums, nothing gets done here as "pros" like MLG F4Z3 xXx-=T0rp1d=-xXx just spend all their time making up strategies that sound cool, but ultimately just increase the boredom level of this game, reading is soo boring.

We need to focus on youtube comments, fresh faces with fresh ideas. You don't need to play a game to knwo it, just watch a few faction wars and Manticores are OP.

[lolzarz]

What is the point in this useless trash of a post? He's posting with a question and asking for help against a certain build and gets this thrown at him?

There is no counter play to IG in 3v3? the most easy race in the game to bleed and wipe? throw in an aids grenade into this "blob" and the damage is insane.. grenade launcher.. noise marines, noxious cloiud. pretty much any AOE will ruin this tactic your talking about.

If going by your logic the past 2v2 tourney that requires no skill and that the best 1v1 players should win, then why didn't noisy and riku win? they were put out by players who play team games.

Back to the topic, I would say 1v1 is the most balanced perhaps things are a bit less balanced this patch but generally the game is balanced around 1v1

So you propose fighting in a war of attrition against the Imperial Guard. The one faction where the basic unit can reinforce 3 at a time and retreat to avoid grenades then break said retreat, continuing to shoot the opponent in the face. The faction also has lots of reinforcement options, ranging from medical bunkers to chimerae and then the vox operator. Okay then.

[karnakkardak]

Swiftsabre/ manticore OP? No, i think not.

before 2.4, many ig user rarely use ogryn, because they cant do their duty; they dont countering range units blob, countering heavy weapon spammed. (Okay, some pro's use them very niced. But most non-pro or beginners didnt.)
That why most ig user select manticore, not ogryn. Even ig user select lord general, give many buff.
Artiliry support here but they have only small shot and distruption before haleavy mortar upgrade. Not Killing-heavy blow like manticore.

But personally,I like 2.4.1 ver manticore too. They cheaper if u have only counter horde army or just get out the site heavy weapon squad as u as can possible want.(though manticore nerfed, i changed my hero from inquistor to lord general.)

[ytimk]

Due to reading text and not everyone having the same fluency of English I thinking brilliant posts like some of the ones above me never get appreciated .

Fucking impaitient youtube level mentality Hurrrrr TL:DR cant be bothered reading forums Durrrrrrrrrr POST NOW THINK LATER (if ever).

Of course 1v1 is most 'balanced' overall - team games throw way too many factors into the mix, they require whole studios and lots of time and testing to get 'right'. Im sick of the unrealistic and ungrateful whining that goes on because people are to lazy to read (or learn to mod) or to stupid to come up with constructive feedback.

[Swift]

Swiftsabre/ manticore OP? No, i think not.

before 2.4, many ig user rarely use ogryn, because they dont do their duty; they dont countering range units blob, countering heavy weapon spammed. (Okay, some pro's use them very niced. But most non-pro or beginners didnt.)
That why most ig user select manticore, not ogryn. Even ig iser select lord general, give many buff.
Artiliry support here but they have only small shot and distruption before haleavy mortar upgrade. Not Killing-heavy blow like manticore.

But personally,I like 2.4.1 ver manticore too. They cheaper if u have only counter horde army or just get out the site heavy weapon squad as u as can possible want.(though manticore nerfd, i changed my hero from inquistor to lord general.)

My good sir, art thou accustomed to the fine art of trolling?

[saltychipmunk]

ogryns cost too much for what they do. to be frank i think the melee damage type hurts them as it is probably the reason why they cant get a price decrease.

but god damn they are way too bloody power heavy. being somewhat ok as a melee unit / vehicle deterrent is one thing . but as an ig player fresh into t2 there are so many other things i can buy using that chunk of resources over just a conventional melee unit with melee heavy (that get easily countered by suppression).

then again one could very much argue that this issue is shared with nobs and to a much much (i emphasize MUCH)smaller extent purifiers which also under perform a little prior to getting their upgrades or leader. in each case we are talking potentially 100+ power 600+ req investments in units that can be countered rather effectively by a single t1 suppression team . that is a ton of moneys to be invested in units that walk on to the field with a high probability of the opponent already having a counter well established .

i honestly think alot of these t2+ conventional melee units need to be looked at on the grounds of their initial cost to effectiveness ratio prior to upgrades

[Atlas]

1v1 is the most balanced game mode.

qft'd

ogryns cost too much for what they do. to be frank i think the melee damage type hurts them as it is probably the reason why they cant get a price decrease.

but god damn they are way too bloody power heavy. being somewhat ok as a melee unit / vehicle deterrent is one thing . but as an ig player fresh into t2 there are so many other things i can buy using that chunk of resources over just a conventional melee unit with melee heavy (that get easily countered by suppression).

then again one could very much argue that this issue is shared with nobs and to a much much (i emphasize MUCH)smaller extent purifiers which also under perform a little prior to getting their upgrades or leader. in each case we are talking potentially 100+ power 600+ req investments in units that can be countered rather effectively by a single t1 suppression team . that is a ton of moneys to be invested in units that walk on to the field with a high probability of the opponent already having a counter well established .

i honestly think alot of these t2+ conventional melee units need to be looked at on the grounds of their initial cost to effectiveness ratio prior to upgrades

I'm super struggling in IG vs Eldar specifically because the main counters IG has against a setup team (in my case, HotW on Inq, flanking and spotters) are rendered ineffective with a GWT behind an enemy shield. Once Wraithguard come into the picture, you're basically forced to get either Ogryns or a Manticore.

In the case of Ogryns, the fact that they can't break suppression is a huge issue in this particular matchup for the above stated reasons which leaves Manticores as the only feasible option I've had in my vs Eldar matchups. Ogryns work just fine in other matchups, and imo even excel in vs SM and occasionally vs GK.

[Vapor]

When playing IG I normally go for assault kit storm troopers to counter wraithguard, which should work even better now that wraithguard are slower. God damn I love those guys. Spotters left over from t1 also work wonders, and of course flare if you're LC.

Ogryns against eldar seems hard to pull off... when I try it I just get rekt by entangling web, mindwar, gravblade, etc. all of which are way cheaper than ogryns. Then again, good play can probably make it work and LG in particular has great ogryn support.

[deltakyklos]

Of course you could beat them with IG in 3v3. IG in team games require practically no skill whatsoever. Freeman frequently buys 2x GM, sent, spotters, and stormtroopers in T2. All he does is a-move then with the LG's sniper ability while behind his allies and he does tremendous work, bleeding models all over and there is no counter-play as you are simply out-ranged in a laney, blobby game of bullshit.

1v1 requires actually microing. Actually having positioning and predicting where abouts your foe will be going to.

You obviously are not very good at any of this given that you cannot win on the big open maps which indubitably favour IG, yet you can win on closed off maps more akin to 3v3/2v2.

I think IG are the second most powerful race in 1v1 atm after tyranids. So you're doing something very wrong.

+1

[enasni127]

Of course you could beat them with IG in 3v3. IG in team games require practically no skill whatsoever. Freeman frequently buys 2x GM, sent, spotters, and stormtroopers in T2. All he does is a-move then with the LG's sniper ability while behind his allies and he does tremendous work, bleeding models all over and there is no counter-play as you are simply out-ranged in a laney, blobby game of bullshit.

Yeah, and if he loses a squad in the first few engagements or falls behind or loses the majority of engangements, he just disconnects again and again and again game after game after game. that's why i call him fLeeman. imo he is on place 2 of the worst team players this mod has. place 1 is "the great complainiho" ;D

the rest about ig sounds pretty right and reasonable but i have to agree that i share the problems against a plaque marine champion, especially with bile spewers AND i think it is in general harder to play vs races that have melee troops as starting unit cause it makes capping with guardsmen alot harder.
capping is in general my biggest trouble with ig in 1v1's cause i usually need 1 gm squad to keep my sentinel up and so have less cap power.

[enasni127]

Of course you could beat them with IG in 3v3. IG in team games require practically no skill whatsoever. Freeman frequently buys 2x GM, sent, spotters, and stormtroopers in T2. All he does is a-move then with the LG's sniper ability while behind his allies and he does tremendous work, bleeding models all over and there is no counter-play as you are simply out-ranged in a laney, blobby game of bullshit.

Yeah, and if he loses a squad in the first few engagements or falls behind or loses the majority of engangements, he just disconnects again and again and again game after game after game. that's why i call him fLeeman. imo he is on place 2 of the worst team players this mod has. place 1 is "the great complainio", who can't play a single game without insulting his own team ;D

the rest about ig sounds pretty right and reasonable but i have to agree that i share the problems against a plaque marine champion, especially with bile spewers AND i think it is in general harder to play vs races that have melee troops as starting unit cause it makes capping with guardsmen alot harder.
capping is in general my biggest trouble with ig in 1v1's cause i usually need 1 gm squad to keep my sentinel up and so have less cap power.

[enasni127]

IG sentinel is close to imba at t 1 and always was.
Best IG av weapon is... manticore. which got cheaper. Yeah sit back and click on your opponent and win kind of unit.
Come T3, you get those ridic leman russ tanks. THey get like what. 40% damage reduction from all types? Let me tell you this at this point this is plain cheating. Your tank gets 66% more HP and your units repair your tank 66% faster effectively as well! At this point there is not enough DPS to take out a single repaired tank most of the time.

IG bleed? lol. 7 req per trooper? try playing eldar and orks and see what bleed is.

Sentinel:

Absolutely not imba in any possible way. It needs alot of repair support and is otherwise focused to death pretty easily. people here spoke of units with the same armor type and more hit points (raptors, noise marines i.e.) and said it was SOOO easy to focus them down - then it should be even easier to focus down a sentinel. basic rule is to fire on its support first cause otherwise 2gm squads will repair the sentinel AND shoot at your troops.

manticore:

i absolutely hate the new manticore, cause it deals significantly less damage and the 15 power it costs less are absolutely unimportant. if you upgrade it to the "old version" you'll only get that for a ridiculous amount of money and suffer from another +10 seconds cooldown.

another point is the very big red indicator on the map which tells you about the rockets coming down long before they hit. i'm an ig player and i usually just move out of the red dot and don't have any trouble. the manticore is only good vs very bad players and it's horrible vs good players.

leman russ:

it's cheating?! almost everything you say about the russ is wrong, your numbers are imagination and your "math" cause of that false.

the leman russ is the most expensive battle tank in the game, it is also the slowest battle tank in the game, it deals less damage than for example a predator, has no special ability like the ork looted tank or knockback like a fire prism. Its only strength is its !35%! damage resistance and this comes for high costs.

[saltychipmunk]

When playing IG I normally go for assault kit storm troopers to counter wraithguard, which should work even better now that wraithguard are slower. God damn I love those guys. Spotters left over from t1 also work wonders, and of course flare if you're LC.

Ogryns against eldar seems hard to pull off... when I try it I just get rekt by entangling web, mindwar, gravblade, etc. all of which are way cheaper than ogryns. Then again, good play can probably make it work and LG in particular has great ogryn support.

melee in general vs eldar is a bad idea.

but yeah ogyrns are too huge a resource chunk for what they bring to the field most of the time. i barely ever see them in my match ups and when i do , they tend to be one of those units i kill to a model in the first engagement . I really don't understand why either but for some reason ogryns are exceptionally easy to kill.