SM vs HI/SHI

[ol'smithy]

Hi all,

I recently decided to give GK a go (mostly in 2v2/3v3 games) and found that once you get paladins + GK termies vs SM there's little they can do to win from that point on. The techmarine fares a little better with plasma gun + mark target but vs heroes like the Apo its basically a steamroll.

A predator doesn't do too well as 2x psycannons/holy ground/teleport shred it really quickly, plasma tac damage is pathetic, plasma devs are easily rushed by the brocap and even melee resist dreads fall quite quickly to heavy melee paladins.

This stems from the other discussion in "Releases" about giving termies a melta wargear option. I know this could be placed in the strategy section but I feel that come T3 SM's options vs SHI are limited, and therefore a balance issue. Other races have comparatively easy access to ranged plasma damage, but its difficult for SM to get the same. Perhaps moving sternguard to T3 and making them worth purchasing? Anyone wanna shed some light on this?

[Sturnn]

I would say that SM is always strugling side in this matchup - especially in 2v2/3v3 where GK can throw everything on you in very small area of space, becasue of team game his forces are not split. There is already topic in ,,Releases" about giving SM/ Terminators some tools to deal with HI/SHI.

[Crewfinity]

vanguard with apo steamroll paladins in my experience

[Dark Riku]

vanguard with apo steamroll paladins in my experience

How in the world would that work?

[Cheekie Monkie]

I wouldn't say steamroll, but I'd imagine they'd give them a tough enough time for your pred/plasma tacs to do some work.

In theory. We could expand the argument to factor in the GK composition with the BC, GK libby, dark excommunication etc, but I think that delves too greedily and to deeply to theorycraft (and I don't want to find out what lies in that darkness)

[saltychipmunk]

This is curious , considering sm has a pretty decent amount of power melee weapons / plasma available to every commander.


the larger issue i would think are the abilities on the paladins / terminators rather than the ability to chip away damage.

Gk terminators are only dangerous if allowed to engage in melee . an obvious observation i am sure. but the rule of slow kitable units and damage types apply here pretty well.

bait them to use their teleport and then plink away at them until they are at a hp level in which one is comfortable engaging them with melee units. or just use a dreadnought it is shocking just how well an upgraded dread can do vs terminators.

[Atlas]

If you're in a 1v1 and your opponent gets both palas and termis you got other problems to nail down first. Overall, GK vs SM is pretty GK favored imo. That's not to say that SM has trouble vs HI/SHI in general due to having a lot of plasma and power weapons but assuming that GK t3 is on the field you need to try to deal with them at range. Assuming you still have your dread you can use it to counter-initiate and then you can really lay into them from afar.

[Forestradio]

vanguard with apo steamroll paladins in my experience

I think that delves too greedily and to deeply to theorycraft (and I don't want to find out what lies in that darkness)

https://youtu.be/ywZ5uo_3Y_A?t=9s

[Nurland]

Well Palas and GK Terms both have 78 dps piercing weapons with full fotm accuracy so they are plenty dangerous when not in melee. I am pretty sure they can outshoot vanilla Chaos Terminators (a dumb comparison but the point that their ranged provess should not be belittled).

[Sturnn]

To be honest they are fucking scarry in both stances - range and melee. Only in melee if someone is so dumb to give them flamers instead of cannons.

[Cheekie Monkie]

GK terminator ranged stance new meta confirmed.

[Torpid]

To be honest they are fucking scarry in both stances - range and melee. Only in melee if someone is so dumb to give them flamers instead of cannons.

Dude, do you play SM/csm exclusively or something?

If you played IG/orks/nids/eldar you would cry everytime you see those incinerators. Oh my god are they ridiculous. They drop squad's health by 40% in an instant.

[Sturnn]

Dude, do you play SM/csm exclusively or something?

If you played IG/orks/nids/eldar you would cry everytime you see those incinerators. Oh my god are they ridiculous. They drop squad's health by 40% in an instant.

This topic is about HI/SHI as SM so... why we would take into consideration dmg done by flamer to other races? If GK player picks flamer vs SM/CSM it is dumb decision and it has nothing to do with how flamer works vs other races. What is your problem here?

[Torpid]

This topic is about HI/SHI as SM so... why we would take into consideration dmg done by flamer to other races? If GK player picks flamer vs SM/CSM it is dumb decision and it has nothing to do with how flamer works vs other races. What is your problem here?

Oh I suppose. It's just in general the incinerators are still overpowered so the suggestion that it would be silly to get them made me jump.

Sorry, I didn't fully note the context. Vs SM you would nearly always be better going psycannon.

[Sturnn]

Oh I suppose. It's just in general the incinerators are still overpowered so the suggestion that it would be silly to get them made me jump.

Sorry, I didn't fully note the context. Vs SM you would nearly always be better going psycannon.

Np My Friend, maybe I wasn't enough clear about what I wanted to say.

[HandSome SoddiNg]

Dreadnought w DA/Vanguard/FC pw w flagbanner & Tacs w plasma FF pals?
LRC termies/Power sword FC w flagbanner/Tacs & VG FF on 1 termie variant?

Pals/Helbards are not unstoppable, Signum can immediately turn tables around..

[Sturnn]

Dreadnought w DA/Vanguard/FC pw w flagbanner & Tacs w plasma FF pals?
LRC termies/Power sword FC w flagbanner/Tacs & VG FF on 1 termie variant?

Pals/Helbards are not unstoppable, Signum can immediately turn tables around..

Yep Mate, just throw all this stuff to fight one fucking unit. The rest of the GK army will be just standing and watching clash of titans.

[HandSome SoddiNg]

Dreadnought w DA/Vanguard/FC pw w flagbanner & Tacs w plasma FF pals?
LRC termies/Power sword FC w flagbanner/Tacs & VG FF on 1 termie variant?

Pals/Helbards are not unstoppable, Signum can immediately turn tables around..

Yep Mate, just throw all this stuff to fight one fucking unit. The rest of the GK army will be just standing and watching clash of titans.

I main GK too ,but i rarely go the double duo, expensive as shit . Not to mention GK termies has regen of 0.5, combined firepower of lv3-4 squads can rip em to shreds especially chaos . I seen many SM tried to go 2 tacs/ASM/TH FC

[HandSome SoddiNg]

Dreadnought w DA/Vanguard/FC pw w flagbanner & Tacs w plasma FF pals?
LRC termies/Power sword FC w flagbanner/Tacs & VG FF on 1 termie variant?

Pals/Helbards are not unstoppable, Signum can immediately turn tables around..

Yep Mate, just throw all this stuff to fight one fucking unit. The rest of the GK army will be just standing and watching clash of titans.

I main GK too ,but i rarely go the double duo, expensive as shit . Not to mention GK termies has regen of 0.5, combined firepower of lv3-4 squads can rip em to shreds especially chaos . I seen many SM tried to go 2 tacs/ASM/TH FC & scouts against my GK ,didn't bold well for em

[Sub_Zero]

But what about Apo? You didn't even mention him a single time. SM's roster is almost toothless against GK's roster. Only heroes like TM and FC carry you. BUT WHAT ABOUT APO? He suffers so much...

[Crewfinity]

apo and vanguard bro. soooo much natural regen in combat and a shitload of power melee dps.

[Forestradio]

apo and vanguard bro. soooo much natural regen in combat and a shitload of power melee dps.

Sorry, but again

[Sneery_Thug]

apo and vanguard bro. soooo much natural regen in combat and a shitload of power melee dps.

Well, when I play GK vs Apo, I usually buy the Mantle of Terra...

[Sub_Zero]

apo and vanguard bro. soooo much natural regen in combat and a shitload of power melee dps.

First of all vanguard rely HEAVILY on their disruption. Without that they are a kinda mediocre unit. Terminators cannot be knocked down. And then there is that Brother Captain who has 2 abilities to make any Apo cry - psychic lash and canticle of absolution. This is one terrible MU.

[Sturnn]

Still, vanguard are just one unit. Now matter what u will do, terminator spam from GK will own you.

[HandSome SoddiNg]

Still, vanguard are just one unit. Now matter what u will do, terminator spam from GK will own you.

Only terminator variant u can spam are just Helbardiers, besides 650/150 isn't exactly cheap & how the heck did u even allow the player spam that far ahead? uh, just get a dreadnought to counter-initiate your allies

[HandSome SoddiNg]

apo and vanguard bro. soooo much natural regen in combat and a shitload of power melee dps.

First of all vanguard rely HEAVILY on their disruption. Without that they are a kinda mediocre unit. Terminators cannot be knocked down. And then there is that Brother Captain who has 2 abilities to make any Apo cry - psychic lash and canticle of absolution. This is one terrible MU.

Apothecary gets molested & ganked 1st being the priority target LOL. Only AOD worth a shit diz against em,VG don't go down as fast as ASM,their hp regen

[egewithin]

I'm wondering do deamons of the Warp are discussing how to counter GK Terminators in real Warhammer universe? They are really tanky you know.