Stormshield = best wargear for the price in game?

[The great Cornholio]

I really think its the best wargear for the price in the game..

pros.

costs almost nothing
works on all units .inc allies
breaks supression
massive 50% less ranged damage.
higher melee damage on FC
20 % less ranged damage on FC
Works great in 1v1 2v2 3v3 works great in t1 t2 t3

Cons

Fc looses his waterpistol ( who cares )

så maybe its time for a change? perhaps 25 % less ranged damage

[saltychipmunk]

the loss of the water pistol is actually pretty huge if he is chasing low hp units , like guardians , shootaboys ,stormtroopers and gaunts.

most of my kills prior to a squad retreating can be split 50/50 between the chain-sword and the bolt pistol.
and it is mostly a tool to punish armies that go heavy into ranged suppression such as the shootaboy spam or a 2 pillar triple guardian setup (which might not be a good setup vs a race of heavy infantry anyway).

not to mention with the aura active all units affected move alot slower.

if this war-gear is an issue , you might want to invest into some melee or disruption or hell a power weapon on your commander does wonders too


its bonuses are powerful to be sure , but most people don't use it anyway. and that is simply because most of the time its powerful bonuses are not needed.

the power sword is a hell of alot more common despite having alot less utility and a similar price tag

[lolzarz]

I really think its the best wargear for the price in the game..

pros.

costs almost nothing
works on all units .inc allies
breaks supression
massive 50% less ranged damage.
higher melee damage on FC
20 % less ranged damage on FC
Works great in 1v1 2v2 3v3 works great in t1 t2 t3

Cons

Fc looses his waterpistol ( who cares )

så maybe its time for a change? perhaps 25 % less ranged damage

4 energy per second, so practically prevents the use of Iron Halo. Speed decrease prevents effectively entering melee, ability does not affect melee damage and the Storm Shield removes the pistol, so must:
a. hide in army and be unable to charge in and tie up ranged squads or
b. charge in and basically waste 110/20 wargear.
It isn't as good as you think it is.

[Nurland]

It is pretty great in 3v3. Very cost effective. It is fine in 1v1, maybe a bit strong in team games.

[HandSome SoddiNg]

Lul complain anything cornholio? Him activating SS makes him a direct target for an Army , FC is not even an imminent threat & defenseless to melee units. I rarely see SS usage from FC players nowadays,all rolling TH

[HandSome SoddiNg]

the loss of the water pistol is actually pretty huge if he is chasing low hp units , like guardians , shootaboys ,stormtroopers and gaunts.

most of my kills prior to a squad retreating can be split 50/50 between the chain-sword and the bolt pistol.
and it is mostly a tool to punish armies that go heavy into ranged suppression such as the shootaboy spam or a 2 pillar triple guardian setup (which might not be a good setup vs a race of heavy infantry anyway).

not to mention with the aura active all units affected move alot slower.

if this war-gear is an issue , you might want to invest into some melee or disruption or hell a power weapon on your commander does wonders too


its bonuses are powerful to be sure , but most people don't use it anyway. and that is simply because most of the time its powerful bonuses are not needed.

the power sword is a hell of alot more common despite having alot less utility and a similar price tag

Don't forget Alacrity + PS ,don't perform well in team games,1v1 it does

[saltychipmunk]

I think this is a case of needing to adapt to the wargear , rather than the wargear itself being op,

corn is notorious for his over use of suppression based tactics , specifically the use of aggressive turret tactics with a supporting suppression team. To the point where i would hazard to say their presence are an almost certainty


regardless, it is the kind of setup which the SS was ritually designed to counter . and it does it well.

[Torpid]

I think this is a case of needing to adapt to the wargear , rather than the wargear itself being op,

corn is notorious for his over use of suppression based tactics , specifically the use of aggressive turret tactics with a supporting suppression team. To the point where i would hazard to say their presence are an almost certainty


regardless, it is the kind of setup which the SS was ritually designed to counter . and it does it well.

Indeed, try noise marines and GL tics vs the SS!

Still, I don't see why the storm-shield should affect allies. It can be quite broken in tandem with the RA ranged blob or the LG ranged blob for sure.

BTW, you can't realistically just shoot down the FC when he is using defend. He has 920hp at level one and only takes 30% damage from ranged attacks... That's only 10% more than if he was retreating.

[saltychipmunk]

most methods to counter the fc using ss , generally revolve around making him waste his energy on fights that don't matter.

I wont deny its pretty nuts in team games , but i think that can be partially attributed to how limited the options on the table are in the early game. you basically have some grenade units , some jump units and a few ranged disruption abilities , and that is about it. The big blob counters dont hit the field till mid t2

[Torpid]

most methods to counter the fc using ss , generally revolve around making him waste his energy on fights that don't matter.

I wont deny its pretty nuts in team games , but i think that can be partially attributed to how limited the options on the table are in the early game. you basically have some grenade units , some jump units and a few ranged disruption abilities , and that is about it. The big blob counters dont hit the field till mid t2

Not to mention the maps totally accomodate blobbing up and you are not punished for doing so. If you try and use the blob-push with the SS in 1v1 the foe just runs away, splits up and caps the whole map such that even if you blob push his power and burn it all you're still at a tech disadvantage even if he doesn't counter-bash.

In 3v3 you just have to mindlessly a-move your ranged blob forwards due to the laney nature of the maps. It makes SS far far more powerful.

[The great Cornholio]

Well salty just shows how little you know .. maybe because you ragequit waaay before the game is over most of the time..

i play sorc most of the time and never make more than 1 supress.. and most games i just get raptors and teleport/warp
but hay its okay.. i dont expect alot from you.. just wish you could play a game without leaving before the end.. even indrid said on his cast that you are pissed and leave...

[Vapor]

It's kinda weird how so many AoE buffs and abilities apply to the entire team rather than just the player who purchased them. It sort of devalues single-target buffs that have to compete with abilities (often passive ones like boss pole) that can buff 2+ players' armies in team games.

On the topic of storm shield, it seems ok to me although I've had some nightmarish experiences facing storm shield + apo heal aura. Pretty sure if a retreat beacon was also in the mix I would ragequit lol

[Adeptus Noobus]

Apart from the scenarios Vapor and Torpid mentioned above (those ARE scary), maybe we could hear a few more before deciding it is OP. At the top of my head I can only think of IG having problems with it because of their lack of dedicated melee units (although Catas pack quite a punch). All other races (except for SM - unless FC mirror) have pretty decent melee units (Banshees, Hormagaunts, AC Heretics, Sluggas, etc.) that would not be affected by the dmg nerf from the SS. Also SM have a low-model-count army. Bleeding is especially bad for them so giving them the ability to alleviate this with a trade-off is ok imo.
In my opinion it is also a big deal for the FC being confined to standing amongst his army, not being able to do much, simply because he is too slow. So are the rest of your units. It is not a tool that allows you to simply A-move forward but to better hold a position or counter suppression if encountered. It also takes away the usage of the Battlecry which is (imo) a big deal.
I must admit though that the SS is very powerful in team games when you are supporting not only your units but your allies' units as well. Certain combinations could make your teams defenses nigh impregnable.

Long story short - before we call it generally OP lets talk about situations where it is and where its not and weigh both of them against each other and then decide.

[saltychipmunk]

Well salty just shows how little you know .. maybe because you ragequit waaay before the game is over most of the time..

i play sorc most of the time and never make more than 1 supress.. and most games i just get raptors and teleport/warp
but hay its okay.. i dont expect alot from you.. just wish you could play a game without leaving before the end.. even indrid said on his cast that you are pissed and leave...

but you do tend to favor the turret strategy when ever you play the commanders that apply. which ss tend to counter

you cant rely deny it, not saying it is an invalid strategy . but you are known to use it which means you are probably more prone to facing SS when it is without a doubt at its most effective.

and if you are playing strategies that are weaker too it, you will see it more often than others and be countered by it regardless of if you play other strategies which i wont deny you do either .

no one is a one trick pony , but as you have aptly pointed out everyone has their preferred tendencies , i will accept mine , accept yours.

Apart from the scenarios Vapor and Torpid mentioned above (those ARE scary), maybe we could hear a few more before deciding it is OP. At the top of my head I can only think of IG having problems with it because of their lack of dedicated melee units (although Catas pack quite a punch). All other races (except for SM - unless FC mirror) have pretty decent melee units (Banshees, Hormagaunts, AC Heretics, Sluggas, etc.) that would not be affected by the dmg nerf from the SS. Also SM have a low-model-count army. Bleeding is especially bad for them so giving them the ability to alleviate this with a trade-off is ok imo.
In my opinion it is also a big deal for the FC being confined to standing amongst his army, not being able to do much, simply because he is too slow. So are the rest of your units. It is not a tool that allows you to simply A-move forward but to better hold a position or counter suppression if encountered. It also takes away the usage of the Battlecry which is (imo) a big deal.
I must admit though that the SS is very powerful in team games when you are supporting not only your units but your allies' units as well. Certain combinations could make your teams defenses nigh impregnable.

Long story short - before we call it generally OP lets talk about situations where it is and where its not and weigh both of them against each other and then decide.

this is largely what i was hinting at in my first post, it is a powerful wargear but again there are many situations in which it is simply not needed.

even in situations where it is a clear winner , like say against armies that use nothing but ranged infantry , i would still pick alternatives.

And I think it has to do with SS not being fun. It is a fantastic wargear.... how it gets the job done in combination with its specific set of draw backs makes for a rather tasteless and bland experience. like beating a game with a walkthrough open on your other screen. It feels lesser to some extent, especially since the fc play style tends to be akin get big hammer + smash heretic face = profit.

I only really do it when my opponent is applying a strategy that is equally boring. but even then they would really have to be asking for it , like 3+ suppression teams or like turrets everywhere... or be playing mekboy .

otherwise it is so much more satisfying to drop an asm on their heads

[Crewfinity]

about a week ago I was playing 3v3's and a SM player on the other team kept getting this wargear. When you get doubled by the SS and someone else there's very little counter play, even if you have two people. my melee units were shot down instantly, and my ranged units were silenced by the allied noise marines, which i couldnt whittle down due to the SS aura. they pushed right up to our gens and we couldnt do a thing to stop them, especially once they got their havocs set up. I agree its not overpowered in 1v1, but there are a lot of possible scenarios in 3v3's involving allies where it quickly becomes infuriating to play against.

[Cheekie Monkie]

And I think it has to do with SS not being fun. It is a fantastic wargear.... how it gets the job done in combination with its specific set of draw backs makes for a rather tasteless and bland experience. like beating a game with a walkthrough open on your other screen. It feels lesser to some extent, especially since the fc play style tends to be akin get big hammer + smash heretic face = profit.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... tPractical

[saltychipmunk]

about a week ago I was playing 3v3's and a SM player on the other team kept getting this wargear. When you get doubled by the SS and someone else there's very little counter play, even if you have two people. my melee units were shot down instantly, and my ranged units were silenced by the allied noise marines, which i couldnt whittle down due to the SS aura. they pushed right up to our gens and we couldnt do a thing to stop them, especially once they got their havocs set up. I agree its not overpowered in 1v1, but there are a lot of possible scenarios in 3v3's involving allies where it quickly becomes infuriating to play against.

That sounds like a dedicated and organized strategy to pump out game wins. i dont think it is possible to beat it unless you know it is coming and have an equally unrealistic setup to counter it, like 4+ jump units or a blob of banshees so absurdly massive that nothing could survive.



sounds to me like the answer is clear , remove the ability to affect teammates

[Atlas]

Best wargear in game would probably go to either the LA Feeder Tendrils in 1v1s or WSE Shimmer Orbs in teams. As for the SS, I agree almost entirely with Torpid. Problem is in the 3v3s maps making the usual counterplay to blobs impractical. It's a problem that is pretty hard to solve imo and honestly, I don't think some 3v3 players really want it solved anyway :/

[saltychipmunk]

well if it becomes more common as a strategy then it will probably gain enough heat for cael to do something about it , it would not be the first item in dawn of war to lose its benefits for allies, if i recall drop pods were nerfed in such a way when they would be used to freely reinforce like 50 + units in a blob.

if its major issues stem from its involvement with teams and nothing else , it should not be a huge issue to simply make it not affect allies , i am not familiar with the code side of things , but i am sure it is reasonably doable.

[Cyris]

If anything, just make the effect not work on allies. There are a bunch of AOE buffs that arbitrarily work on everyone, or just your troops. Targets team games over 1v1 very directly.

I personally haven't faced it and felt it was over the top /shrugs

[Sneery_Thug]

I really think its the best wargear for the price in the game..

pros.

costs almost nothing
works on all units .inc allies
breaks supression
massive 50% less ranged damage.
higher melee damage on FC
20 % less ranged damage on FC
Works great in 1v1 2v2 3v3 works great in t1 t2 t3

Cons

Fc looses his waterpistol ( who cares )

så maybe its time for a change? perhaps 25 % less ranged damage

Sotormshield is veeery good in 3v3. In 2v2 and even more in 1v1 it is rather occasional. And it works good together with sacred standart vs ranged blobs. Though when I played IG in 1v1 or 2v2 I could deal with this composition (well, perhaps my opponents are not the best ones.)
Still, it doesn't work vs melee, so chaos shouldn't have much problems to deal with this composition. I use it often vs IG or Orks.

You say it "works great in 1v1 2v2 3v3 works great in t1 t2 t3" - so pleeeeeeease, post some of your 1v1 and 2v2 matches, where you play FC with stormshield and win vs a better opponent. Or at least, where your opponent plays FC and you play obviously much better and then your opponent takes stormshield and breaks with it your whole composition (and yes 1v1s or 2v2s, not 3v3s). ANd then it will mean, that this wargear is OP as you claim.

Still, in a 3v3 it is really very good and should perhaps protect only users own squads and not all the teammates.

[Forestradio]

I've got a replay where Noisy uses the storm shield against Tex's warboss, does it mean SS OP or UP

[Broodwich]

if we are going by what random auras you can stack in team games then we would be here all day. Or even just having an ability affect allied troops in general.

UYC on shees anyone?

I don't see anything wrong with it, as the same counters to blobs apply to one player or many. Just get more of them instead of your normal build

[Sub_Zero]

Not reading anything. I've always considered it incredibly overpowered. So I say yes without a single doubt. The sheer effectiveness of this wargear plus it's interesting applications absolutely make it the best in terms of availability and cost.

For some races like IG it is impossible to deal adequately with this wargear. They can only move back and mitigate as much damage as possible and hope that the FC is stupid enough to not disable it whenever no damage is taken from the opposing side.

Why did you reduce its cost to 20 power?.. It should be 30 power at least!

You say it "works great in 1v1 2v2 3v3 works great in t1 t2 t3" - so pleeeeeeease, post some of your 1v1 and 2v2 matches, where you play FC with stormshield and win vs a better opponent. Or at least, where your opponent plays FC and you play obviously much better and then your opponent takes stormshield and breaks with it your whole composition (and yes 1v1s or 2v2s, not 3v3s). ANd then it will mean, that this wargear is OP as you claim.

It has nothing to do with a game mode. If you face IG in a 3 v 3 game, you will crush them with this wargear. If you face IG in a 1 v 1 game, you will crush them with this wargear as well. But if we talk about the thing that this wargear affects your allies then it is another issue but as somebody had already mentioned there was a ton of other possibly broken synergies. Then we perhaps should forbid usage of any ability on allies. But then we lose a really good part of 3 v 3 games - when you support your friend's squad who would do better with this buff than any of your units. What if I have ASM and my friend has 2 banshees. In a 1 v 1 game his banshees would take a lot of fire and if not used correctly would bleed a lot. But here in a 3 v 3 game I give them a red carpet to enemy's lines by jumping my ASM into the fray. Quite impossible to take into account all these factors, let's just keep the 3 v 3 game mode a fun mess.

[saltychipmunk]

if we are going by what random auras you can stack in team games then we would be here all day. Or even just having an ability affect allied troops in general.

UYC on shees anyone?

I don't see anything wrong with it, as the same counters to blobs apply to one player or many. Just get more of them instead of your normal build

That is a pretty good point , where do we draw a line in the sand for these kind of things.

I guess in the context of SS its aura (when active) is a much larger bonus, it counters both suppression AND gives ranged damage reduction that is pretty nuts.
if you happen to be playing a race with no good melee units or an over reliance on ranged units , this wargear can be a veritable i win button against them , unless that opponent knows exactly what they are doing.
where as things like say the standard costs more, are in later tiers and give half the defensive bonus as damage. 25% as an aura is a pretty popular number for alot of other wargears

[The great Cornholio]

I dident write this because i have a problem with SS when iam playing chaos.. but i have seen alot of people strugle when they are facing it.. IG is the race that suffers the most. what makes it soo dam good is that it works on allies 2.
Lord general stand firm only works on his own troops and gives no damage reduction...

[Sub_Zero]

Lord general stand firm only works on his own troops and gives no damage reduction...

Last time I was beaten by rocks when I dared (how did I even dare?) to compare such things I did mention how nuts the stormshield is and how little does this ability.

I also told that tacs/devs are more resistant to ranged fire and giving them 50%? Insane... The LG also doesn't gain anything himself out of this wargear. OK, I am not coming back to this <profanity>, since people probably didn't stop being <describe yourself for yourself>...

In short - this wargear is incredibly OP and who thinks otherwise really has <I cut out this part too, too many sensitive people and judging moderators around>.
-Activation/deactivation on demand (already makes it strong, this way you cannot misjudge and waste it)
-50% ranged damage reduction to a race that has already resistant to ranged damage units - such a joke
-Cost (you pay such miserable resources for something that retains its actuality during all tiers)

49% is more appropriate

But honestly I am more in favour of making it really expensive - something about 150 req and 30/35 power and leave it as it is.

[saltychipmunk]

the issue with simply making is more expensive is that it wont really address the problem. as many have stated before it is perfectly balanced in the 1v1 setting , the problems really only show up when you use it with allies.

it wouldn't matter if you tripped its power cost , if you manage to get 3 armies worth of infantry under this aura in t1 you can pretty much sweep the map and stop the opponents tech permanently.

[Slaaneshi Cacophony]

I think changing it from a toggle ability to one that can only be used in bursts with relatively short cooldown would be a good idea. Say 30-35 energy for ten seconds with another ten seconds to cooldown before you can use it again. It'd encourage strategic use with good timing to be used effectively and allow the enemy team to punish the blob during cooldown by forcing off the Force Commander or inflicting model losses.

[Forestradio]

http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/r ... &id=302081